80 replies to this topic

[Herr Vorragend]

Any ideas how to prevent and avoid nascaring beside yelling in voip and chat? I´m getting sick of all this brainless movement.

How do you think about nascaring? Do you like it?

Edit:

let me show you screens with certain moments that you´ve all seen before

First off: Frozen City. Your assault lance starts on D3. You see the situation and ask the rest of your team to support the assaults. Meet at C3, because you already know what the enemy will do.

Your team ignores the assault lance in their furious nascar-race to C5.
You have the following situation:


The enemy went to C3 in the meanwhile. WIth all three lances. They peak over the ridge, see some abandoned assault mechs and prepare the push. Your assault lance is down in no time, while the rest of your team is waiting for the bus on C5 / B4. The enemy mechs are weakened but not in a huge manner. 4 vs 12 is hard even in assaults.



It´s 8 vs 12 now and the enemy is closer to our base than your team to theirs.
= Loss in 80%




Let´s take a look at mining collective.

Your team again ignores the assault lance. Or they just don´t care. Most important for the nascarers: We have to get to the middle of the map as fast as possible.
So your assaults manage to get to your own base and can´t go any further without being under fire from two enemy lances:




Your teammates at B3 / C3 start knitting and talking about their recent adventures in the local barber shop, while the assaults on D5 are taken out by two enemy light/medium/heavy lances.

Your own team is still knitting. Sometimes you can read a "enemy spotted at..." but no further reactions to that. They start moving towards the center or moving a little more towards the enemy base.
Again it´s 8 vs 12:



In the meantime the enemy has the following advantages:
- a complete assault/heavy lance untouched, having four mechs more overall
- shorter way for all their lances to our base
- your own team might be splittet and ready to die

I don´t know any reasons why to act like this. Are you afraid of taking damage and a having scratched paintjob? In your opinion others should do the work. You ignore basecaps, ignore enemy spottings, you even don´t think tactically.

Due to the recent event I played all four mechclasses. Every match I tried to attention the team to support our assault mechs. Sometimes it worked and I also got some nice friendly words from the assault pilots. And guess what? We won! We won every single time we played together as a team.

Nascarers don´t care whether you offer a plan or not. They just run brainlessly. It´s no "tactic" at all. Nascar only works, if the assault lance is in front and you´re moving together. If you leave your fatties behind you can prepare yourselves for a loss.

I´m Tier2, so I´m matched with T1 and T3 players. Four out of five matches are a nascar race.

Here is a nice graphic from Mr Winter, which nails it:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4695824

Edited by Herr Vorragend, 13 February 2016 - 04:29 AM.

[pwnface]

Herr Vorragend, on 12 February 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

Any ideas how to prevent and avoid nascaring beside yelling in voip and chat? I´m getting sick of all this brainless movement.

How do you think about nascaring? Do you like it?

A few ways:

• Join a team/unit/group
  
• Suggest a gameplan or grid before people start the Nascar
  
• Start your engines and outrun the fatties

[Darian DelFord]

So long as PGI continues to suck at map making and making the Death Ball the only true defense, this will not change.

[Mamonar]

NASCAR OR DIE!

[Johnny Z]

Its a little bit like an old school fleet battle. A lot of the time both teams form a line and start circling each other firing as they go and trying to catch the others tail. It doesn't have to work like this and many times it doesn't. That it is common on some maps or modes makes sense.



Some maps like the base defense maps don't have any of this and maybe some new maps in the future.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 February 2016 - 07:50 PM.

[Pathos]

After 15 seconds of turning left, mechs must turn right. Make it so.

[Alistair Winter]

Change the maps.

When the map design is dominated by a huge mountain / building / volcano / plateau, you get Nascar. It's as simple as that. Especially on small maps and especially when the game modes lead to predictable gameplay. There's no magic fix for the problem.

Fix the maps (and some of the game modes).

[Nauht]

Moving and firing is a basic combat tactic to not get killed.

I'd prefer nascaring than sitting still in one position any day.

[5LeafClover]

Fixed drop zones, including the fact assaults always drop in the same place, is one of the causes IMO. Makes for very predictable game play. Either you form up on your fatties or you go running after theirs. After that, the race direction is set (cw or anti-cw).

[Tarogato]

5LeafClover, on 12 February 2016 - 09:12 PM, said:

Fixed drop zones, including the fact assaults always drop in the same place, is one of the causes IMO. Makes for very predictable game play. Either you form up on your fatties or you go running after theirs. After that, the race direction is set (cw or anti-cw).

Actually... assaults don't always drop in the same place. It varies every match.

[Ted Wayz]

Design maps that evolve new combat techniques?

Make roles worthwhile? Nascar is the result of deathball. Deathball is the result of killing and damage being the most rewarded behaviors.

Not the players fault. Take your gripe to Twitter. PGI rarely forums.

But look at it this way, you don't have to watch the 100k tournament to know what is going to happen.

[Kodyn]

It's a tough situation to address, because on one hand you do want to keep moving, but on the other, stringing out in a huge line with your assaults at the back getting picked apart as your fastest mechs tail the enemy team is really bad.

On some maps, such as Caustic, it becomes a real issue when some mechs have the mobility to keep moving around the center, and others are hung up behind getting torn apart.

I think it's a combination of smarter players knowing that standing still is usually death, along with the sheep that follow anyone that moves, and then the guys that simply want the match done with so they can make CBills and move on. PGI has given us several different map types, and as players, we still follow the same two patterns: hole up in one spot such as the arch on FoCo, 'tard rock in Canyon, etc, or nascar around the center endlessly til one team dies.

I don't even know if changing maps or spawns would prevent player laziness...we have Voip that hardly gets used, maps with whole sections we ignore...I blame PGI for plenty, but this one may be on us.

[Mazzyplz]

Johnny Z, on 12 February 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

Its a little bit like an old school fleet battle. A lot of the time both teams form a line and start circling each other firing as they go and trying to catch the others tail. It doesn't have to work like this and many times it doesn't. That it is common on some maps or modes makes sense.



Some maps like the base defense maps don't have any of this and maybe some new maps in the future.

actually in naval combat this is a legit strategy it's called crossing the T


https://en.wikipedia.../Crossing_the_T

[Troutmonkey]

Nascar is 90% a result of bad map design. Players like to go right at the start of matches, but then turn left towards the enemy. If there's some big thing in the way, it becomes a race around it to catch the others tail.

You'll notice that one map in particular doesn't suffer from this - Polar Highlands. I have to say it's one of the most balanced map designs so far. Another map that doesn't have Nascar is Alpine, but that's because the giant hill is one way and controlling it == winning most of the time.

[Ted Wayz]

Kodyn, on 12 February 2016 - 09:39 PM, said:

It's a tough situation to address, because on one hand you do want to keep moving, but on the other, stringing out in a huge line with your assaults at the back getting picked apart as your fastest mechs tail the enemy team is really bad.

How about a mode where one team needs to defend an objective? Oh snap!

So hard to come up with these things.

[Davegt27]

Why we NASCAR



To let the terrain help us

See the one Mech I can shoot him without all his buddies shooting back
It can also reveal one Mech at a time

Now if you want you can just charge in no one is stopping you but report back how that goes

[Sandpit]

Darian DelFord, on 12 February 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

So long as PGI continues to suck at map making and making the Death Ball the only true defense, this will not change.

as long as players refuse to adapt from a strategy that came about due to lack of VOIP and comm tools, nascar will continue. Know what you don't see upper tier players doing?
Running off and leaving their fatties.

Know what you dont' see as commonly in upper tier play?
Nascar strategy

Why is it that those players can win and strategize beyond "blob and move forward" on the same maps?

It's not map design that encourages that playstyle, it's poor teamwork by players

[LordKnightFandragon]

When people are not so afraid of leaving the deathball due to PPFLD, then you might see some degree of NASCAR reduction.

NASCAR happens cuz everyone is following everyone else, hoping that everyone else will take the alpha strike in the face, and they can get a shot in before they to get alpha struck in the face, then each side is simultaneously trying to alpha strike the other while avoiding the other teams alpha strikes while all huddling together in a big ball for mutual support.

remove the insane *** PPFLD issue, you solve the NASCAR issue. Maps like Caustic would actually be rather fun if players could actually move away from the crater without being cratered. If on River City, teams of 2 or 3 could stomp around and have a jolly fun time. Even Crimson straight is a fun map, its just you cant leave the deathball, or you get cratered.

[Johnny Z]

Mazzyplz, on 12 February 2016 - 09:43 PM, said:

actually in naval combat this is a legit strategy it's called crossing the T


https://en.wikipedia.../Crossing_the_T

That's one tactic yep.

If I remember correctly Admiral Nelson had his T crossed at the battle of Trafalgar, but sailed right through, allowing cannons on both sides of his ships to open up at the same time effectively doubling his fire power. I could be remembering the wrong battle though.

Anyway theres lots of tactics and the most common was both fleets sailing along side of each other in opposite directions, using broad sides. Crossing the T and other tactics were mainly used if someone screwed up. There has been quite a few of those though.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 February 2016 - 10:19 PM.

[Kodyn]

Sandpit, on 12 February 2016 - 10:07 PM, said:

as long as players refuse to adapt from a strategy that came about due to lack of VOIP and comm tools, nascar will continue. Know what you don't see upper tier players doing?
Running off and leaving their fatties.

Know what you dont' see as commonly in upper tier play?
Nascar strategy

Why is it that those players can win and strategize beyond "blob and move forward" on the same maps?

It's not map design that encourages that playstyle, it's poor teamwork by players

Ted Wayz, on 12 February 2016 - 09:55 PM, said:

How about a mode where one team needs to defend an objective? Oh snap!

So hard to come up with these things.

I beg to differ...Unless you mean only Tier 1, in Tier 2 you still see more than plenty of nascar, I was surprised when I got here. You also see plenty of bad builds, rambos, poor aim, and and pilots that make you wonder how they even turned their PC on.

As far as Assault and Conquest stopping nascar? Well...I don't have a scientific reason for it, but they don't... Teams still do it and ignore the mode, more than half the time.

As for maps like Polar preventing it? Nope...see it all the time there, even to the point of teams taking 10 mins to see each other because they're both nascaring around in the same direction on a huge map.

So unless we're seeing different games, not sure where these arguments are coming from, because this is all the stuff I've seen from T3-T2. Maybe it all magically goes away at T1 and everyone performs perfectly, but seeing as I see as many known T1 guys in my matches as lower Tier, I'm gonna highly doubt that.