416 replies to this topic

[ggodo]

Thank you. Griffin seems to be what everyone is pointing at. I was debating putting Max engine in my RVN-3L and just running for it, but this gives me a new mech to go for.

[razor32]

Think the new deck FRR should be running is 3 Warhammers with one oxide or cicada 2b. It is probally the strongest deck the IS can currently put on the field atm, and is what MJ12 drops almost exclusively.

[Virlutris]

razor32, on 03 June 2016 - 04:24 AM, said:

Think the new deck FRR should be running is 3 Warhammers with one oxide or cicada 2b. It is probally the strongest deck the IS can currently put on the field atm, and is what MJ12 drops almost exclusively.

Question, because I'm incorrigably curious:

Why the CDA-2B, and not the FS9-S?

Don't mistake this for CDA hate, I love 'em. The FS9's tremendous though.

[Jarl Dane]

I am sorry guys i am super busy with this PGI tournament. When it blows over me and my guys will take fresh eyes to CW and figure out some solid builds for the community.

[Stormbringer13]

my question is about the weapon fire groupings on mechs such as the BJ-1X. with the 6 MLs, are they on one fire key, or 2?

I think one of the problems that new players run into is the slight pause or confusion when trying to drive a mech with more than 2 firing keys. Left or right mouse pad is easy, but throwing in a third or even fourth button makes thinks awkward. Trying to drive forward, or even worse, backing up, while trying to fire the 3 or 4 button is an easy way to die.
We all can't afford fancy gaming mice,

Maybe a few suggestions, alterations or tips/tricks for new players to get used to it, or finding ways around these issues could be helpful as well.

[Tarogato]

Stormbringer13, on 07 June 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:

my question is about the weapon fire groupings on mechs such as the BJ-1X. with the 6 MLs, are they on one fire key, or 2?

I think one of the problems that new players run into is the slight pause or confusion when trying to drive a mech with more than 2 firing keys. Left or right mouse pad is easy, but throwing in a third or even fourth button makes thinks awkward. Trying to drive forward, or even worse, backing up, while trying to fire the 3 or 4 button is an easy way to die.
We all can't afford fancy gaming mice,

Maybe a few suggestions, alterations or tips/tricks for new players to get used to it, or finding ways around these issues could be helpful as well.

For all mechs I like to have it so that I can fire all of my weapon groups just by hitting both left and right click together, the "two-button alpha." Most mech builds work with this philosophy and I've only found that the most of eccentric of builds actually require a third weapon group.

For this BJ-1X build, there are two ways you can do it. You can put all of your arm weapons (medium lasers) in one group, and your torso (medium pulse lasers) in the other. The second way of going about it is the way that I prefer, where I put all my left-mounted weapons in my left click group (so that would be three medium lasers and one of the medium pulse), and all of my right-mounted weapons in my right click group. My third button is a weapon group for just the arms alone.


Like I said, most builds fall nicely into this "two-button alpha" philosophy, and these are the two methods:

1. put your primary weapon(s) as group 1, and your secondary weapons as group 2. You can set auxiliary groups however you like, such as high-mounted only, arms only, or smaller groups for heat management.

or,

2. put your left sided guns as group 1, and your right sided guns as group 2. I do this for most of my mechs. For your auxiliary groups, you can assign high-mounted or longer range weapons as your third group, and arm-only weapons for your fourth group.



The auxiliary groups offer you flexibility, and though you won't always need them they are handy to have. I have mine on my mousewheel scroll because I don't have a fancy gaming mouse.

Edited by Tarogato, 07 June 2016 - 08:03 PM.

[Stormbringer13]

Tarogato, on 07 June 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

For all mechs I like to have it so that I can fire all of my weapon groups just by hitting both left and right click together, the "two-button alpha." Most mech builds work with this philosophy and I've only found that the most of eccentric of builds actually require a third weapon group.

....



The auxiliary groups offer you flexibility, and though you won't always need them they are handy to have. I have mine on my mousewheel scroll because I don't have a fancy gaming mouse.

I was concerned about the heat overload in firing 6 MLs at one time. Ghost Heat must be incredible. On a few other builds for the Thunderbolts, Black Knights and Grasshoppers, I had similar concerns.
I guess splitting them right/left side is a good compromise.

and I hadn't considered the mouse wheel option. right now its to get me out of Zoom quicker. I'll have to switch that.
I can handle having LRMs on the #3 button, as I generally don't have to move to keep target lock.

But htanks for the info and advice. every little bit helps.

[Tarogato]

Stormbringer13, on 08 June 2016 - 06:12 PM, said:

I was concerned about the heat overload in firing 6 MLs at one time. Ghost Heat must be incredible. On a few other builds for the Thunderbolts, Black Knights and Grasshoppers, I had similar concerns.But htanks for the info and advice. every little bit helps.

For pretty much all mech builds that don't incur heat scale ("ghost heat"), you want to alpha everything every time that you can afford to, which is why I call it the "two-button alpha" philosophy. For instance, with the BJ-1X, it runs cool enough (once you get it fully Elited) that you almost never have to split your shots, you can just alpha everything every time. Sometimes it's better to just wait to cooldown and fire everything again, rather than staring at your enemy firing half your guns at a time. The reason I personally prefer the left-side right-side weapon groups... is because I can shoot around cover with them without wasting heat on the guns that would clip the environment. That said, with the Blackjack specifically... you never really end up doing this.


With a mech like the Black Knight and Grasshopper, again you don't have to worry about ghost heat, but they do have rather hot alphas. Use the full alpha whenever you can, but whenever you sense an extended engagement incoming (where you will be pressed to your heat limit), then only fire your group that has just the large pulse lasers in it. The LPLs are more heat efficient for the damage they output, so always use them when you are running hot and need the efficiency. Or when your medium lasers are almost completely out of maximum range (though I'd have the medium laser range module and LPL cooldown module, which brings these weapons closer together for better synergy overall.)

[Jarl Dane]

New patch will make much of this post outdated. I will try to have it updated a week and a half after the patch goes live.

[goatreich]

I imagine that with the BK, GH and WH getting slight nerfs and a big size increase (making XL a more difficult proposition) will make the QD and the TB the go to mech once again, as their size is much smaller.
I would risk to say that catapult K2 can also be popular.

[Chipmunkaroo]

Really hope the QKD stays in the deck. I'm pretty new to MWO and the first 'Mech I really clicked with was the QKD. Then I started looking at getting into the Faction Play and saw FRR on the QKD train and it was a match made in a match making factory. Almost got them all mastered would be a shame to have to ruin my transmission switching gears so hard. LOL.

SOOOOO close to getting the old Stormtrooper Deck completed... Can I get an "A" for effort?

[Bud Crue]

Based on what I have read in the notes and the comparisons I have done thusly (obviously just on paper). I would think a good "beginners" deck would be a Griffin 3m or 2n outfitted for Scouting and then 3 T-bolts. The slight nerf to the T-bolts structure will be offset by it demure stature. My thinking here is that you include a Griffin just so newer players can run it 4th wave in invasion (in the same manner as the 4H is run in the stormtrooper deck) and then switch it over to scouting mode when needed. Thus a newer player only needs the minimum number of different mechs.

For me my default will likely go from 3 QD and 1 Ghopper (that increased height...wow), to 2 QD and 2 Tbolts (or Jaggers for hot maps). Gonna try cataphracts too (slimmer, no nerf...but still awful hardpoint locations).

Who knows though? Dane et al seem to do a lot of work in coming up with their very specific builds and decks, so I expect it to be awhile before new candidates emerge. The quirk changes are just math, but we won't know how some of the rescaled ole' reliable mechs are going to play until we actually play them.

[Chipmunkaroo]

Bud Crue, on 21 June 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

Dane et al seem to do a lot of work in coming up with their very specific builds and decks, so I expect it to be awhile before new candidates emerge.

Mech The Dane, on 17 June 2016 - 09:37 PM, said:

New patch will make much of this post outdated. I will try to have it updated a week and a half after the patch goes live.

Confirmed. New deck by July 2nd...

[Bud Crue]

Exkath, on 21 June 2016 - 06:43 AM, said:

Confirmed. New deck by July 2nd...

Yeah, I saw that up above. With the variety of changes to the models and presumably the hit boxes, as well as to the quirk changes, I wouldn't be surprised if it takes them longer than that to get a good feel for everything. Fingers crossed though.

[Palfatreos]

the quickdraw got smaller 4G traded heat gen for accel decel ( which better for poking and 3 lpl isnt that hot). 4H lost some laser power for mobility and twisting (which great since it a brawler) so think those 2 has high chance to be repicked.

Beside the reason that alot people already has mastered the quickdraws the 4G and and 4H got even better after the patch. So i am wondering what the last 2 mech will be. if it a 4 heavy dropdeck 2 thunderbolt,catapult,jager will be good fillers. I bet my horses on thunderbolts :3 . 9SE with 3 lpl and the other idk (if topdog was cbills it probably would have been picked?)

[Chipmunkaroo]

Mech The Dane, on 17 June 2016 - 09:37 PM, said:

New patch will make much of this post outdated. I will try to have it updated a week and a half after the patch goes live.

The Jarl campaigns for a seat at the round table yet refuses to answer our calls for the deck update!

In other news: I'll still vote for you to be part of the round table... Do we get votes? Someone said we get votes. And cake. Yes. Cake. Much cake. THERE BETTER BE CAKE!!!

[Jarl Dane]

Exkath, on 02 July 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

The Jarl campaigns for a seat at the round table yet refuses to answer our calls for the deck update!

I really try to avoid giving 'opinions' on these matters. I don't want to tell you what I like, or what my friends like, I want to tell you what will give you the best chance for success. It makes it hard for me to pull the trigger sometimes because I don't want to get it wrong.

Palfatreos, on 01 July 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

the quickdraw got smaller 4G traded heat gen for accel decel ( which better for poking and 3 lpl isnt that hot). 4H lost some laser power for mobility and twisting (which great since it a brawler) so think those 2 has high chance to be repicked.

Beside the reason that alot people already has mastered the quickdraws the 4G and and 4H got even better after the patch. So i am wondering what the last 2 mech will be. if it a 4 heavy dropdeck 2 thunderbolt,catapult,jager will be good fillers. I bet my horses on thunderbolts :3 . 9SE with 3 lpl and the other idk (if topdog was cbills it probably would have been picked?)

QKD-4G did get smaller, but the heat changes..even if they don't look like much.. amount to a lot. You'll overheat faster, do less DPS, and if a brawler or AC mech closes with you you'll find yourself outmatched quicker then before the patch. I really enjoyed this Quickdraw and it was the best one for players learning the chassis, but it might just not work anymore for the premiere mech in the dropdeck.

4H and 5K both seem to have not been hurt nearly as much (QKD IV4 might have also gotten better due to everything else getting worse). If you were still using Thunderbolts those weren't too badly nerfed either. They lost some structure quirks, but they were also shrunk. So there might be some parity there, somewhere.

I feel like the jury is still out on Catapults. The Jester and the Butterbee/splat catapult can definitely be used effectively, but are they actually better than the other options out there? Also I am not sure I feel comfortable endorsing a hero mech.

Same could be said for the Blackwidow, which is a killer dakka mech. People also still like the WHM laserboats but are they actually better than the GHR laser boat? Or the Jester?

Jager has been a strong mech, in capable hands, but of all the mechs listed it is the most fragile and unforgiving. Similarly I have a few guys that keep trying to sell me on riflemen..

Lots to test, lots to consider, hard to find the best path and make it the standard one.

Exkath, on 02 July 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

In other news: I'll still vote for you to be part of the round table... Do we get votes? Someone said we get votes. And cake. Yes. Cake. Much cake. THERE BETTER BE CAKE!!!

You vote by tweeting russ =P

Edited by Mech The Dane, 03 July 2016 - 01:37 PM.

[Palfatreos]

true with 4G i have to use my coolshot most the time before it was sometimes to barely the -10% heatgen alot difference.

[Sjorpha]

So here are some impressions of mine since the patch:

One big upside of the rescale is that the original "basic" newbie friendly deck based on thunderbolts is now much stronger again. The thunderbolts are big winners in the rescale, mostly kept their quirks intact and all the old builds still work fine.

So a new pilot could now make a real solid FW foundation out of 3 thunderbolts with 55 tons left to fit any medium they like in the 4th slot.

The catapults are now really really good for Faction Warfare. Not only in the absolute "this mech is pretty strong" sense but also because they cover most bases in terms of build variety. You have you cool ballistic build (K2), your brawler (A1 splatapult) and your laser vomit (Jester). The downside of the catapult is that you usually only want one at a time in your deck, the one that fits the map you're playing, so it's not a good candidate to base a whole dropdeck on. But it's a great mech to have in one slot with all the variants ready to switch according to map.

The Warhammer shares this quality of variety with the catapult, in the sense that is also offers great variants for cool/hot/short/long adaptation. It is easier to build a deck around because you also have redundancy in the energy boats so you can run more than one in the base deck.

A downside of both these mechs are that you really want the heroes (Jester and Black Widow) to make the most of them.

Battlemaster got smaller and was already a beast before the patch. The 2C is super tanky and makes a great staple, while the other variants can offer a long range alternate.

Locusts are legitimately good now, especially for controlling blast location when fighting against long tom. Though it's good to have a larger light or medium to switch in if you're going to run it.

So my two recommended decks now would be:

Newbie: 3 thunderbolts and the mech the medium or light they already bought for fun (or I would probably recommend a blackjack if they have no mediums)

Not so newbie: A modular dropdeck with Locust (1E and 1V) + Oxide or Cicada (2B, 3M), Catapult (Jester, K2, A1), Warhammer (Black widow, 6D, 6R) , Battlemaster (2C + long range alternate). Make notes for which variants goes on each map.

Obviously you could go all out and calculate a setup with the best mechs for each map with no chassis restrictions at all, bringing in the Atlas for brawling and the mauler for hot map fire lines and so on, and that is the strongest setup you could have. But that's only feasible for whales and long time vets.

Obviously modular decks like that isn't a very good candidate for the stormtrooper deck, both for skill threshold, accessability and because convincing many people to make the same very complex deck is just impossible. I'm just throwing out evaluations of mechs there.

As for a new official stormtrooper deck, assuming 3 of the same heavy mech is a required feature, I think the current best candidates are thunderbolts + 1 medium or 3 warhammers + 1 Light.

A 35t light + 2 thunderbolts + Battlemaster 2C is a third alternative that I think is strong, though I'm not sure which light you'd want to use after the rescale.

I think keeping the skill threshold low is important for the stormtrooper deck, as I understand it we want it to be a funtional way to augment fairly inexperienced/mediocre pilots to punch above their weight as a team. So it should remain a fairly uniform, laser based and tanky deck.

Edited by Sjorpha, 05 July 2016 - 03:46 AM.

[mikerso]

Sjorpha, on 05 July 2016 - 03:33 AM, said:

So here are some impressions of mine since the patch:

One big upside of the rescale is that the original "basic" newbie friendly deck based on thunderbolts is now much stronger again. The thunderbolts are big winners in the rescale, mostly kept their quirks intact and all the old builds still work fine.

So a new pilot could now make a real solid FW foundation out of 3 thunderbolts with 55 tons left to fit any medium they like in the 4th slot.

I am so glad to hear this. My top dogs and steam 9se have been missing me since my computer died. I will hopefully have the new one next week.