89 replies to this topic

[Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law]

MischiefSC, on 24 March 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

So when 1 member of NKVA said something inappropriate that one time, did the rest of the unit roast them in public? I don't know what everyone in HHoD thinks but most units keep disputes internal.

Plus you guys are a bunch of a-holes, on purpose. Then when people actually hate you for it you act surprised. You guys troll HHoD in game and the forums and have for a year. There's no way you haven't pissed off tons of HHoD players who, in turn, are likely to voice their concerns to their unit leadership.

What astounds me is that it took 1 year for Aylward to blast you guys to Russ on twitter. You guys go out of your way to piss in their cheerios for a year steady and then are surprised when they put you on blast?

You know what doesn't happen though? Everything you post in Davion forums going to K-Town. We (all of Davion) has been a better sport for dealing with you guys doing the troll thing than anyone else. Sooner or later though it's going to cross a line and you're going to get put on blast.

Your troll-fu is weak. This isn't a surprise, it's a testament to HHoDs patience that it took this long. The Faction Which Can Not Be Named tends to mass-report, quit MWO and go in to therapy after 2 drops or 1 forum post from NKVA. They aren't having trouble taking territory in FW because of population overall, it's because they trigger and run to their fur lined hugbox every time you post in their forum (before it gets massed reported and deleted or sent to k-town).

HHoD is about the only guys left for you to play with. You should be sending them flowers and candy.

Oh wait, that Twitter account is the leader of hHod too? You can't make this stuff up folks

[Crockdaddy]

Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law, on 24 March 2016 - 06:07 PM, said:

Oh wait, that Twitter account is the leader of hHod too? You can't make this stuff up folks

Mischief does make a very valid point. You guys laid the hammer down on Davion for quite a long time and in fact they took it with pretty good humor unlike Clan Wolf or other groups. I clearly disagree with heading to twitter to advocate for a unit ban and obviously I am on your side because I don't take the salty chat / forum stuff seriously at all ... I find fun in it when others do it to me. BUT Davion has to their credit been tolerant of you guys. That is the voice of reason talking. I do know you've toned down quite a bit compared to the past too but maybe sometimes you just have to GG it up occasionally or modify the chat humor to include them in the joke instead of making them the butt end of it. I know it seems like heresy but just food for thought because generally speaking Mischief post was honest.

Just keep in mind I am no Davion apologist ... but it does seem to be true that Davion's are more resilient and tolerant of being trolled than most. We should give credit where it is due.

[MischiefSC]

Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law, on 24 March 2016 - 06:07 PM, said:

Oh wait, that Twitter account is the leader of hHod too? You can't make this stuff up folks

I dunno. Assumed so. Come on though - Scoops is responsible for making sure you all get a straw and an even number of tendies so there's no fighting. Leadership is responsible for leading.

[RjBass3]

MischiefSC, on 24 March 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

Leadership is responsible for leading.

I don't know about that. Being gaming friends with a couple of the NKVA guys and having dropped with them a few times, I can tell you, the way they do things is different then any other unit I have been a part of, or have known in gaming for just about my entire gaming life.

Scoops is their main guy, sure, but he isn't really a so called leader. NKVA differs from most units in that each player is his/her own person and is responsible for his/her own actions. So if a member of NKVA starts shooting off at the mouth, trolling, saying hurtful or disrespectful things, Scoops won't interfere for the most part. It is the units mentality that if somebody in the unit puts on the balls to do this or that, say this or that etc.. then they can keep those balls on when the complaints start coming in and no other member is required to help defend said member. That's not to say some won't come to the players aid, or join said player in the banter, but no member is required to. They are all big boys/girls, so they should be able to receive it as much as they dish it out.

That is another reason why I don't feel the call to Russ to ban the entire team is fair, since the problems only stem from a small few in a unit of 50+ members.

During the last ban wave I saw that Scoops was also banned, yet I have never seen him say anything to any player that was downright disrespectful. Sure he will chime in with the standard game banter, but nothing outrageous. But because of a blanket ban, he was guilty by association. I know members of HHoD, RRB, 228, NS, Lords, MS, EMP AS etc.. who have taken the game banter to far, to the point that they should have been reported. Nobody has ever called for their entire units to be banned though.

Like I said a couple pages ago, to blame everybody for the actions of a few is just stupid.

[MischiefSC]

RjBass3, on 24 March 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

I don't know about that. Being gaming friends with a couple of the NKVA guys and having dropped with them a few times, I can tell you, the way they do things is different then any other unit I have been a part of, or have known in gaming for just about my entire gaming life.

Scoops is their main guy, sure, but he isn't really a so called leader. NKVA differs from most units in that each player is his/her own person and is responsible for his/her own actions. So if a member of NKVA starts shooting off at the mouth, trolling, saying hurtful or disrespectful things, Scoops won't interfere for the most part. It is the units mentality that if somebody in the unit puts on the balls to do this or that, say this or that etc.. then they can keep those balls on when the complaints start coming in and no other member is required to help defend said member. That's not to say some won't come to the players aid, or join said player in the banter, but no member is required to. They are all big boys/girls, so they should be able to receive it as much as they dish it out.

That is another reason why I don't feel the call to Russ to ban the entire team is fair, since the problems only stem from a small few in a unit of 50+ members.

During the last ban wave I saw that Scoops was also banned, yet I have never seen him say anything to any player that was downright disrespectful. Sure he will chime in with the standard game banter, but nothing outrageous. But because of a blanket ban, he was guilty by association. I know members of HHoD, RRB, 228, NS, Lords, MS, EMP AS etc.. who have taken the game banter to far, to the point that they should have been reported. Nobody has ever called for their entire units to be banned though.

Like I said a couple pages ago, to blame everybody for the actions of a few is just stupid.

My prior post was just teasing.

I agree with you, hence why prior I'd posted the same thing. One guy is not the unit. I didn't know NKVA functioned like that. Are they an anarcho syndicalist commune? That.... that makes a lot of sense in an NKVA sort of way.

[dervishx5]

RjBass3, on 24 March 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

I know members of HHoD, RRB, 228, NS, Lords, MS, EMP AS etc.. who have taken the game banter to far, to the point that they should have been reported. Nobody has ever called for their entire units to be banned though.

To be fair to us, we kicked out Assassin.

Also I call for 228 to be banned all the time. Deadfire is a menace and must be stopped.

[Richter Kerensky]

I think the worst thing anyone did in any recent match against HHoD was say "another HHoD 12 man!" against an enemy team consisting of an HHoD group of any size (including 1). How can you take that seriously? As I'm sure you're aware, we all know how to count to at least 48.

Edited by Richter Kerensky, 24 March 2016 - 10:54 PM.

[Scoops Kerensky]

MischiefSC, on 24 March 2016 - 09:46 PM, said:

My prior post was just teasing.

I agree with you, hence why prior I'd posted the same thing. One guy is not the unit. I didn't know NKVA functioned like that. Are they an anarcho syndicalist commune? That.... that makes a lot of sense in an NKVA sort of way.

Most of us have known each other for years outside of mwo - leadership and rank systems don't really work for us because while the game is a fun thing for us to all play, it isn't the glue that binds us together. We'll find a new game one day if we're banned en masse. As it is, I'm hopeful the facts speak loudest in this case. We win matches, they don't, and we have several firsthand accounts of their leaders treating its membership like chattel.

A unit should be more than a tag - it should be friends that have your back and want to get better at the game you're playing with you and have fun. Appealing to authority outside of the game is just the latest escalation of either someone or a small group using people for a power trip and getting frustrated that reality isn't lining up with the fantasy in their heads.

[MischiefSC]

Scoops Kerensky, on 25 March 2016 - 02:27 AM, said:

Most of us have known each other for years outside of mwo - leadership and rank systems don't really work for us because while the game is a fun thing for us to all play, it isn't the glue that binds us together. We'll find a new game one day if we're banned en masse. As it is, I'm hopeful the facts speak loudest in this case. We win matches, they don't, and we have several firsthand accounts of their leaders treating its membership like chattel.

A unit should be more than a tag - it should be friends that have your back and want to get better at the game you're playing with you and have fun. Appealing to authority outside of the game is just the latest escalation of either someone or a small group using people for a power trip and getting frustrated that reality isn't lining up with the fantasy in their heads.

Except winning or not winning matches is entirely apart from trolling people in and out of game. Hence the appeal to PGI. Nobody is objecting to NKVA winning matches - MS wins more matches on any given night just based on numbers. Dropped with KCom tonight. They win matches. SJR? They do alright too so I understand. There's a lot of teams that win matches.

Nobody is objecting in any way to getting their a$$ handed to them by NKVA. No more so than usual.

However you guys like to troll and you sometimes, well actually often, take it too far. Always have. I talk a lot of ****. On the forums and in game. However I'm not even close to the degree of trolling you guys do. Doesn't bother me, I'll trade trashtalk with anyone. I find you guys generally very funny on the forums. Different people have different tolerances though and NKVA has put a lot of work into finding those tolerances and pushing them off ledges.

A unit is what the people in it make it. 22AL is nothing like HHoD, which is nothing like MS, which is nothing like KCom. Which is sort of the point - people are in different groups for a reason. Different interests, tolerances, etc. It's good you guys have something that works for you. Personally I wouldn't try to drag my friends into MW:O to help carry me - I like them too much

Admittedly this is PGIs house - they make the rules. They get to decide what behavior they like and don't like and they get to always pick the winning side in any dispute here. Cuz it's their house.

Not that I agree with the way some things have been handled recently, to circumspectly dance around speaking about moderation. I don't. I worked hard to get a bunch of people unbanned a year + ago under circumstances that I didn't think were fair. However you guys need to take a serious look at yourselves if you think this is all happening because 'you win and they don't'. Do you really think you're the only team that has beaten Davion units and players before? Really?

NKVA is in the position its in about getting put on blast on Twitter and report-bombed and everything else because as a given rule you guys act like a-holes 10x more than anyone else in game and that's saying something. I'm a pretty vociferous a-hole. That's it. That's the beginning, middle and end of it. HHoD has taken it on the chin from you guys day in and out for like a year now, little over, and you've managed to successfully run them out of ***** to give. Your opinion of the rumors and second-hand opinions people have given you about how they work as a unit is irrelevant to that. There's no bars on the windows. Aylward doesn't keep the keys to anyones mechs. There's more than 1 unit in Davion, they're just the biggest. Just a group of players like any other and they play together for their own reasons.

Don't try to make or find excuses for why NKVA got reported. There's only 1 reason - you troll the holy living **** out of people in game and on the forums. Some of us find it funny, some ignore it, some tolerate it, some flip the **** out and take screenshots to e-mail in before locking themselves in their hugbox and sobbing for a few hours, then uninstalling MW:O for a month. Hence why The Faction Which Can Not Be Named has periodic population dips.

You're big kids, you make your decisions and I'll always yell and shake fists when I see what looks like unfair moderation. I play here, I'm invested in the fairness of the systems and authority here. You guys are also most of the entertainment in MW:O. Forum Warfare is a better product than CW at the moment and the NKVA Forum Warfare drop deck is formidable and fun to play against. Don't try to get all 'you hate me cuz you ain't me' though. You guys catch fire because you act like a-holes. This shouldn't be a surprise to you.

Edited by MischiefSC, 25 March 2016 - 03:02 AM.

[Scoops Kerensky]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one - the worst thing we've said in the last month has been 'another hhod 12 man' and appending 'sir' to what we've said to people. Ironically we were much less scrutinized when we didn't even bother. If our current level of banter can't survive in this community then there's a real problem - and it isn't on our end.

[TKSax]

Scoops Kerensky, on 25 March 2016 - 03:14 AM, said:

If our current level of banter can't survive in this community then there's a real problem - and it isn't on our end.

Yep I would agree and I have not even seen it, just taking you word for it.

Just like I never understood why people let the lords going GGClose upset them so much. My standard is this, if you do not say anything that is homophobic , racist or break the coc (I have been reporting people who accuse me/my team of hacking as that is now against the CoC) there is nothing to report. Tell me I suck at the game, tell my build sucks tell me I am stupid that my unit is stupid what ever does not matter. Why would I let people that I do not know and will probably never meet affect the enjoyment of a game. I know someone is going to say but there is "honor", sportsman ship, whatever, those are your constructs that are different for every person. I just ignore, laugh or don't let anything bother me that is said in All Chat.

As someone said in some movie

Lighten up Francis.

Edited by TKSax, 25 March 2016 - 04:28 AM.

[Chef Kerensky]

MischiefSC, on 24 March 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

So when 1 member of NKVA said something inappropriate that one time, did the rest of the unit roast them in public? I don't know what everyone in HHoD thinks but most units keep disputes internal.

Plus you guys are a bunch of a-holes, on purpose. Then when people actually hate you for it you act surprised. You guys troll HHoD in game and the forums and have for a year. There's no way you haven't pissed off tons of HHoD players who, in turn, are likely to voice their concerns to their unit leadership.

What astounds me is that it took 1 year for Aylward to blast you guys to Russ on twitter. You guys go out of your way to piss in their cheerios for a year steady and then are surprised when they put you on blast?

You know what doesn't happen though? Everything you post in Davion forums going to K-Town. We (all of Davion) has been a better sport for dealing with you guys doing the troll thing than anyone else. Sooner or later though it's going to cross a line and you're going to get put on blast.

Your troll-fu is weak. This isn't a surprise, it's a testament to HHoDs patience that it took this long. The Faction Which Can Not Be Named tends to mass-report, quit MWO and go in to therapy after 2 drops or 1 forum post from NKVA. They aren't having trouble taking territory in FW because of population overall, it's because they trigger and run to their fur lined hugbox every time you post in their forum (before it gets massed reported and deleted or sent to k-town).

HHoD is about the only guys left for you to play with. You should be sending them flowers and candy.

Most folks who hate us are willing to man up and try to settle it in-game. See: phase 1 davion, marik, the smoke jags, mercstar, every pug ever.

The consistent exception to this rule has been a certain group of clan wolf players. To see HHOD join them is genuinely disappointing, I always respected davion's massive nuts and unwavering dedication if nothing else.

For the record Scoops Tasker and I have been encouraging people to tone it down at least for the time being. The idea that there was anything objectionable said during that HHOD match is completely silly. I was there. They stalled and got stomped for it. Looking forward to doing it again.

[Crockdaddy]

Scoops Kerensky, on 25 March 2016 - 03:14 AM, said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one - the worst thing we've said in the last month has been 'another hhod 12 man' and appending 'sir' to what we've said to people. Ironically we were much less scrutinized when we didn't even bother. If our current level of banter can't survive in this community then there's a real problem - and it isn't on our end.

I agree. Since the last ban hammer from the "report button but not really using the report button clan wolf" you guys chilled out quite a bit and I'd personally be hard pressed seeing how you violate current ToS. I chock it up to teams hating to lose against you so ANY provocation no matter how minor is exploded out more than it should be. Plus the MWO player tends to be over sensitive relative to many other games. The main lesson from the Clan Wolf banneggedon seems that other units have learned to appeal straight to Russ or people they know inside of PGI.

The short answer is ... if you guys lost your troll on any level wouldn't mean much. It is only because you win that the trolling has any meaningful effect.

[WrongFloor]

Because no one here really knows what this is about here is my summary of the game in question.

Game starts people trade GL HF, I'm pretty sure no one says anything that negative. Maybe someone said something very light but seriously nothing even worth remembering (I don't). We push in Alpha gate on sulfurous counter attack with our standard 12x grasshoppers. HHoD is in mostly 90+ ton assault mechs and just are not able to rotate in time, we focus the 6 or so mechs in front of the gun, then walk around back and kill the last 6. HHoD then streams in a few pilots before pushing into us with a main force. We kill 1 person of their second wave and damage quite a few others. We still never took omega (on purpose) so we have to push into them again with another wave. Wave 1 ends 12-13 in NKVA's favor.

Someone on the HHoD side says something like 'that was really good' (I'm sure he was chewed out for talking to us), and to be quite honest I have no idea if hes referring to us or HHoD doing well. Even attacking into 12 maulers/king crabs only being up by 1 kill is pretty bad for NKVA against Davion. Don't get me wrong there was no doubt we were going to win the match because HHoD is pretty damaged and used up most their tonnage at this point but we probably are going to have a 3rd wave. NKVA responds to HHoD with something like 'ya for us' and what not. I don't remember exact quotes but we let them know we feel like we won the game already.

We then group up and push through alpha gate again to get omega and finish off as many mechs as we can. We walk into their base and there is literally no one there. We assume they decided to camp their spawn so we check, nope no one. We then think maybe they are watching gamma or something so we walk over there nope nothing. So we take omega and tell HHoD we are in their base and now we are playing defense and they get to push into us. There is still something like 20 minutes on the clock at this point. We set up a line at the gamma gate and wait. After a few minutes it becomes clear at that they are going to hide from us and drain out the clock and force us to wait. At this point we start calling HHoD pathetic and what not, because quite frankly it was.

We then assume they have a firing line set up somewhere and decide its not worth it to even give them the satisfaction of walking into whatever random corner of the map they decided to set up in. They then slowly peak a few guys at alpha gate to call airstrikes across the map on us at gamma and try and bait us to them. (about 10-15 min left at this point)

We've realized they are going to try and cover up their delay of the game by saying they were using a strategy of trying to snipe a player with a few seconds left in the game to bring the score to 13-13. So with about 3 minutes left on the clock, and HHoD out of airstrikes, we decide it would be funny to leave our position so when they go for their last second kill snipe we won't be there. We walk out of gamma gate set up a line and wait a minute. At about 2 min wilbaron (HHoD) with his infinite wisdom runs out to follow us with a cored CT and gets 1 shoted by a couple LpL's to the chest, making the score 14-12. HHoD then pushes with their full force into our line. They do an awful job at it with 1 or 2 people at time leaving their main group and getting shredded.

Game ends 24-12 NKVA's favor. HHoD, upset that we called them out for their tactics, calls for us to get another unit-wide ban on twitter.

Edited by WrongFloor, 25 March 2016 - 06:26 AM.

[Lord DeicideRavenRose]

MischiefSC, on 25 March 2016 - 03:00 AM, said:

Don't try to make or find excuses for why NKVA got reported. There's only 1 reason - you troll the holy living **** out of people in game and on the forums. Some of us find it funny, some ignore it, some tolerate it, some flip the **** out and take screenshots to e-mail in before locking themselves in their hugbox and sobbing for a few hours, then uninstalling MW:O for a month. Hence why The Faction Which Can Not Be Named has periodic population dips.

You're a reasonable guy, Mischief, and I agree with most of what you're saying in this post. I will say, however, that the reason we get reported is because some people are just milksop babies who can't hang. It's not our fault that their tolerance for trash talk -- something which normal people would expect to see in any game -- is so low, and this is no longer the least bit surprising to any of us.

[Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law]

Squelches, on 25 March 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

You're a reasonable guy, Mischief, and I agree with most of what you're saying in this post. I will say, however, that the reason we get reported is because some people are just milksop babies who can't hang. It's not our fault that their tolerance for trash talk -- something which normal people would expect to see in any game -- is so low, and this is no longer the least bit surprising to any of us.

hey remember that post a couple pages ago where a man saved screenshots of extremely mild ribbing for six months and posted it

[Lord DeicideRavenRose]

Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law, on 25 March 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

hey remember that post a couple pages ago where a man saved screenshots of extremely mild ribbing for six months and posted it

Oh you mean the post that justifies us and our behavior? That was cool.

[Tasker]

Listen, I think it is clear at this point that what really got under their skin in that match was that we decided to change our signature line just for them. They came into the match braced to hear those hated, toxic words: "Never drop on Kurita again."

But instead they received the treatment usually reserved only for the failures of Clan Marik: "Please drop on Kurita again."

And I think that's what really broke them.

[TKSax]

I think that no matter what NKVA said or did not say I find it pretty Pathetic that someone had to complain to Russ on Twitter about it. Make your report send your evidence, never complain in pubic , especially when you don't get your perceived way. I seen and had some crappy things done to me in game, I sent those issues to support and let them handle it, I didn't follow said rule breaker around to see if PGI did anything about it or complaining to the President of the company about it on twitter.

Edited by TKSax, 25 March 2016 - 08:15 AM.

[Crockdaddy]

Clan Davion scum! (getting back into Character for when CW 3 comes out)