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Do You Use Every Ton?


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#1 Richard Hazen

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 11:27 AM

I just made an Awesome 8R build but I ran out of slots with 1.2 tons left after I added Ferro Fibrous armour, so I can't add anything else after I did the little bit of armour I could add to the legs and head. It currently has max armour 6 artemis srm 6s 4 tons of ammo and 2 LPLs.

#2 Bud Crue

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 11:37 AM

I've a few builds where I might have .1 to maybe .3 tons unused. Even that tiny bit usually drives me to sufficient distraction to completely rework the build to avoid such an inefficient travesty of design :) . In any case, I've never had more that a ton unused (sub out a ML with a MPL if nothing else, go buy an incrementally larger engine -or smaller one to free up tonnage for something else).

#3 The Basilisk

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 11:53 AM

Not for Ferro fib armor.
BTW the mech can only carry 4 missile launcher.

Please review THIS

As you can see the differece to your build is 14 armor points in the leggs.
Thats absolutely insignificant.
Further it could be convenient to ditch the LPLs for 2 LLas 2 additional tonns of SRM ammo and 2 additional heat sinks.

#4 Richard Hazen

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 12:10 PM

Sorry meant 4. I dropped a ton of ammo and added a medium pulse laser in the head, but heat is a problem. Even if I downgrade the lasers I still have no slots. Runs very hot but deals enormous damage when managed.

This is how it looks atm

Edit: I've altered it with suggestions in mind it now looks like this.

Edited by Will Hawker, 27 March 2016 - 12:39 PM.


#5 jss78

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 12:35 PM

Even the updated build still has rather little SRM ammo. I always try to take enough for 25 volleys, unless the SRM's are strictly a situational backup weapon.

One option might be to downgrade the ASRM6's to SRM4's, which don't need Artemis anyway as they cluster tighter. You could then add a couple more heatsinks. AWS-8R

Alpha goes down, but DPS goes up.

I think you can safely down-armour that shield arm.

#6 The Basilisk

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 12:35 PM

View PostWill Hawker, on 27 March 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

Sorry meant 4. I dropped a ton of ammo and added a medium pulse laser in the head, but heat is a problem. Even if I downgrade the lasers I still have no slots. Runs very hot but deals enormous damage when managed.

This is how it looks atm

Edit: I've altered it with suggestions in mine it now looks like this.


OK ..again...
Please drop the FF armor for standart armor.
It gives you just 1,5 tonns you cant use for anything usefull.
FF armor does NOT increase your armor it just makes it lighter.
1T standart armor gives you 32pts of armor.
IS FF armor gives you 12 % more armor per ton.
So if you would equip 320 pts of armor ( 10t ) FF would give you 358.4pts that would save you effectively 1.07 tonns
And it would cost you 14 slots.

-->>>DO NOT USE FF

Edit:
Again Ferro fibrous armor does not give you the ability to increase your maximum possible armor it youst gives you more points per ton.

Edited by The Basilisk, 27 March 2016 - 12:38 PM.


#7 Richard Hazen

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 12:38 PM

4 tons seems to last me a match, I could add an extra half if I drop the shield arms armor down a bit. I kind of prefer strong alphas than staying in fights if I do I then chain the srms.

Edited by Will Hawker, 27 March 2016 - 12:40 PM.


#8 The Basilisk

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 12:40 PM

View PostWill Hawker, on 27 March 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

4 tons seems to last me a match, I could add an extra half if I drop the shield arms armor down a bit.


read above your post, remove 4 pts from each legg and arms, then disable Ferro fibrous armor

#9 Richard Hazen

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 12:42 PM

View PostThe Basilisk, on 27 March 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:


read above your post, remove 4 pts from each legg and arms, then disable Ferro fibrous armor

It has been, I did it in the edit of my post.

Edited by Will Hawker, 27 March 2016 - 12:42 PM.


#10 Tarogato

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 12:43 PM

Always use every ton available.

... except for that one time I build a Stormcrow that weighed 48 tons and was better than a Nova with the same loadout. Posted Image

#11 The Basilisk

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 12:51 PM

View PostWill Hawker, on 27 March 2016 - 12:42 PM, said:

It has been, I did it in the edit of my post.


^^sorry did not see the edit.
But yes thats about it.
You also could trade smaler launchers ( faster relode, less heat and thighter rocket grouping ) versus more ammo.
Quad ASRM4 will give you 4 more tonns and 4 more slots.
You had 2 free so this will give you 6 free slots and 4 tonns.
Maybe something like this

#12 Richard Hazen

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 12:51 PM

Btw I have my armour distribution set at 70 front 30 rear atm, should I really got for 90 at the front because then I'll be a sitting duck behind.

#13 The Basilisk

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 01:06 PM

Since your mech is an Assault and a short range mech you are dead meat if you stay behind anyways.
Backarmor will only give an arctic cheeta more armor to melt and money to make you will die no matter what you do if you get separated from your team.
On the other hand a Black Knight has an 63pts alpha, can fire two of them before overheating and moves at 81kph.
With 90 front armor and 50 internals you will be able to absorp 2 of this alphas 140 - 126 = 14 .....
From behind and with this big hitboxes any mech able to do enough damage to kill your internals will be a big mech anyways.
What will mean you are sourrounded by enemys aka dead.
Any mech with an even larger alpha will either rely on spreaded damage and or is too hot to hit you two times in a row.
And since you are a short range mech you will stay tight with your team and wait till somebody comes close.
The only scenario where a mech with significant pinpoint damage will get behind you is your team has been decimated ynd you will die anyway or you ran of and got ganked alone.

#14 Nine-Ball

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 10:21 PM

If you don't use all your tonnage and all your slots then its a **** build.

Sorry. /s

#15 Tordin

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 09:22 AM

I try to fine tune the tonnage no mather the cost. Either I up or down the engine, change it or add some extra heatsinks, bap, tag, whatever. But I dont think I have any mech that go above 0.5 ton left. Mostly in the 0.1 - 0.4 range.

#16 PeeWrinkle

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 04:34 AM

If that is the build you want ditch FF Armor and go with this as it uses all available tonnage. That said, I'd prefer the build to have more ammo, but you may find you don't need it. Goo rule of thumb is to always use the max tonnage available no matter what. The minor exception is the .1 and .2 you can have left over when using FF Armor on some weight classes.

#17 Chryckan

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 08:02 AM

To answer to OPs original question;

I have a spider build that only use 29.9 out of 30. According to Smurfy's there 0.14 tons left, I just can't figure out where those 0.04 tons comes from, seeing how most things in the gave is divided by 0.5.

#18 PeeWrinkle

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 10:39 AM

View PostChryckan, on 07 April 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

To answer to OPs original question;

I have a spider build that only use 29.9 out of 30. According to Smurfy's there 0.14 tons left, I just can't figure out where those 0.04 tons comes from, seeing how most things in the gave is divided by 0.5.


Ferro Fibrous armor does that. On some weight classes it is impossible to hit it exactly. .04 isn't significant as it is not enough weight for one FF armor point. Although on a 30 ton Spider you should not get that. You should be able to hit Half and Whole ton increments exactly.

On a 35 Ton (IS Chassis) if you will be .01 low at the half ton increments, but it lines up at the ton increments.

Clan is a bit different as the multiplier is slightly better giving you 1 or 2 more armor points per ton when using FF, can't recall exactly.

Play around a bit in Smurphy's and you'll see what I am talking about. Also full armor on many chassis, whether FF or Standard can put you off significantly. It is usually best to drop it to closest half ton increment. Although a bit lower sometimes doesn't make much difference as long as you end up without any wasted tonnage at the end.

#19 mogs01gt

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 09:48 AM

I have a few mechs that can be a ton or 1.5t under simply because of lack of crit space. The stupid max engine restriction causes this.

#20 krevLL

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 07:39 PM

I'm still new (going on two months) so I only have two Mad Dogs (A and Prime) but I honestly try to keep it at 0.1/ton unused max. I can always jam another heat sink somewhere... I've cycled through so many different weapons on those two mech's it's ridiculous but again, feels like a waste not to if you can fit useful things. Or just anything. If cockpit items weighed anything I'd use them to max tonnage :D





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