239 replies to this topic

[Haeso]

You've been more than amicable. Likewise if I was coming off as such as well.

They've only said what they will have and what we can infer from what else they said.It's obvious we won't control diplomacy though I think that's a shame, and obviously as well they will designate what planets are considered what. But we don't know how much depth they have beyond target acquisition. Perhaps at higher ranks they do have control over the organizational structure of their own house units, maybe they manually deal with the logistics of their house if logistics are in, lots of things they might do. But I'd like to bring this back to my original problem, it's not related to the amount of control, it comes down to the principle of time = rank is okay, to an extent. Time = Rank all the way up the chain is not okay. Even if the only power at the highest rank is to be one of the few hundred people that are voting on which developer assigned planet to attack (Though I hope(Read:Not expect) it's far more involved than that.), that shouldn't be determined solely by time or money spent.

I'm more than happy that people with more time to play will have large advantages that scale reasonably. time and effort expended should equal reward, I'm on board with that 100%. Just that certain things shouldn't be rewarded for time spent, or at least not just time spent, mm'kay?

You know it's funny that I find myself on this side of the argument, as if I wanted any sort of position of command - I'd be one of those with the most time to play by a wide margin. I work from home on my own schedule.

I'll say again I know there's more to it, but without knowing what exactly, this is an interesting topic - far more interesting than beating the old, decaying corpses of the other topics. Perhaps all our concerns will be allayed with the next QnA, or perhaps it will prove them correct, who knows. I lean towards the likelihood time will not be all that is required to achieve the highest ranks, but I still see it as a possibility until we know more.

Edited by Haeso, 08 December 2011 - 05:53 PM.

[Volume]

TiredOne, on 07 December 2011 - 08:25 PM, said:

Wouldn't you simply fill out your Merc HQ so that even should 3-4 be out, other members are still going in your name as stated?:
"As a Mercenary Corporation, all members’ earned loyalty points go to the Merc Corp. "

Sounds like a "Guild reputation" kind of system.

And the decaying stuff here sounds a lot like the old old old honor system in WoW (http://www.wowwiki.c...m_%28pre-2.0%29)

Obviously I would hope that it would be irrelevant things tied to rank (titles, avatars, things like that, since we know it won't be 'mechs), but it would still be frustrating to lose status by not playing...I mean you already lose status by not playing without an arbitrary "respect meter" going down.

[GaussDragon]

Haeso, on 08 December 2011 - 05:50 PM, said:

Perhaps all our concerns will be allayed with the next QnA, or perhaps it will prove them correct, who knows. I lean towards the likelihood time will not be all that is required to achieve the highest ranks, but I still see it as a possibility until we know more.

On the upside, we'll know more about the system. On the downside, we'll just start focusing our arguments on the finer merits/drawbacks of the system. No matter how small the number gets, you can always divide it .

[Red Beard]

Halfinax, on 08 December 2011 - 05:42 PM, said:

Haeso. It says influence on what planets to target. Not control over the Faction. I imagine it would be something along the lines of The Great House (devs) saying "Hey guys we need one of these 5 planets to be taken which one do you want?" The guys with the high LP influence (so 200 or so) get to vote and the one that wins the vote is the planet that is targeted. They aren't going to be controlling diplomacy or ranks or who gets what role or any such thing. PGI has been clear that they will determine who is at war with who, and what planets are core, faction, and periphery.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, and if I am coming off that way I apologize to all involved.

No apologies Half. You are, to be certain, not being antagonistic in any way.

I still didn't like the earlier comment about grinding though. Hehe.

[Haeso]

Volume, on 08 December 2011 - 05:54 PM, said:

Sounds like a "Guild reputation" kind of system.

And the decaying stuff here sounds a lot like the old old old honor system in WoW (http://www.wowwiki.c...m_%28pre-2.0%29)

Obviously I would hope that it would be irrelevant things tied to rank (titles, avatars, things like that, since we know it won't be 'mechs), but it would still be frustrating to lose status by not playing...I mean you already lose status by not playing without an arbitrary "respect meter" going down.

There are a few players that only gained more respect over time after quitting, a sort of myth/legend status, heh. It was always a sad day when a long time ace finally threw in the towel and was done with the game. Can remember a few names from over the years from various Battletech games, be they the Genie/MPBTs, or MW3/4.

Edited by Haeso, 08 December 2011 - 06:02 PM.

[SaJeel]

Omg so much has been added @_@ ok rather than wade through it im gona answer Kay's question to me:
here's my thought process behind having a squad be able to "vote up" a commander.

Now as we don't have much knowledge on how the LP and rank system will work this might not be valid for what MWO will actually be. But lets say a commander was absolute garbage, but due to the skill of the individual players the team ends up winning, the team could vote down that commander. Now if a commander is exceptional, but lets say something goes wrong, one member just doesnt co-operate, etc. the commander could still be recognized as doing well.

From my perspective teamwork and organization is a hard thing to give merit in a video game, unless you give the power to the actual team. might be wrong on that tho

over all being for a team to control the reputation of a commander seems like a good thing to me,

Edited by SaJeel, 08 December 2011 - 06:44 PM.

[Halfinax]

LP being handed out based on merit (doing your role well) would account for that for the most part. Opening up community vote could easily create a clique wresting control over a House by voting up their friends and voting down not friends. Not that there isn't merit to the concept it just seems more exploitable than an automated LP system, and there is no real valid solution to those that have more time on their hands playing more, however, as has been pointed out numerous times throughout the thread the devs have never said that players with a higher level of LP will have any influence beyond helping choose what planet(s) to attack now, and I also seem to recall them saying, rather explicitly, that LP rank will not provide them with automatic command of the battle field.

[Kay Wolf]

I apologize... in a single hour, while I was eating dinner, you people added three pages. I wasn't about to read it all, and I just assumed it had continued going in the same direction it had been going. Halfinax now knows, in PM, why I posted what I did. Continue your conversation... I'm out of it.

[Haeso]

Halfinax, on 08 December 2011 - 06:48 PM, said:

LP being handed out based on merit (doing your role well) would account for that for the most part. Opening up community vote could easily create a clique wresting control over a House by voting up their friends and voting down not friends. Not that there isn't merit to the concept it just seems more exploitable than an automated LP system, and there is no real valid solution to those that have more time on their hands playing more, however, as has been pointed out numerous times throughout the thread the devs have never said that players with a higher level of LP will have any influence beyond helping choose what planet(s) to attack now, and I also seem to recall them saying, rather explicitly, that LP rank will not provide them with automatic command of the battle field.

Even if they don't have more influence (They should and I expect they will, how much more is open for debate.) it would still be utterly wrong for it to be based off time played for the highest ranks, unless we want our rank structure to feel as fake and meaningless as Battlefield, which is what it would accomplish. I respected people in FoM and the Battle Tech leagues that were in charge, because with all but a few exceptions, they deserved to be there. I can't say the same for ranks in a game like Battlefield or CoD because they're not really ranks. They're player level. I doubt they go so far as to make it like MPBT, but that doesn't mean it has to be shallow either.

[Halfinax]

LP is unlikely to be earned purely through time played. A better player will earn more LP in a short time than an ineffective player will. As I've stated a few times though there is not much we can do about people that have lots of time to play. Personally I find the mechanic intriguing and as I've also said it makes sense from a business stand point for PGI. It will keep people coming back to earn more LP to earn that next perk. The more people they have coming back the more people they can attract and the more money they will generate. I am not convinced that LP Rank will provide any influence beyond getting a vote on what planet to attack next. I've seen nothing that even suggests that to me, and if it does then yes I would take issue with that, but I'm not going to jump to that conclusion until I hear more from the devs on the topic.

I'm going to take my leave from this topic for awhile as we seem to be rehashing the same debate topics at this point. I'll likely return tomorrow afternoon. Have a good night chaps.

[Red Beard]

Some folks here are masters at rehashing.

[Helmer]

Red Beard, on 08 December 2011 - 07:41 PM, said:

Some folks here are masters at rehashing.

Agreed. See post #167 . "lot of it is just spewing individuals wants and needs to the point of sheer wankery."

This thread has been an interesting read. : )

Edited by Helmer, 09 December 2011 - 12:22 AM.

[EDMW CSN]

What I see LP is a form of reputation. Basically blah blah blah to fanatical.

This could give you some fringe benefits on your end to stay with a certain house, like having better salvage rights. More pay, access to rarer equipment, free repair and reloads etc. Major merc houses like McCarron or WD have their own planets and factories but I doubt player own mercs will reach that kind of level anytime soon.

So it make sense for LP degradation because otherwise power house player owned mercs and units will be on the top of the heap after a year or so.


Anyway rank does not matter in an MMO, if you have being playing in any competitive with FPS or MMORPG etc The guy with the highest rank might not be the unit / Clan commander. Simple as that.

[metro]

MaddMaxx, on 08 December 2011 - 04:07 PM, said:

or this little ditty.

Thanks Maxx. And I am sure a lot of things will continue to change , evolve or be updated by the devs.

[metro]

Paul Inouye, on 08 December 2011 - 05:17 PM, said:

Basically my point is this. We haven't released all the information regarding LP. We also haven't released any information besides mile high level details on Role Warfare. In the QnA we will be addressing what LP is exactly and how it works within the game's overall design. I've seen a lot of people here think that LP is going to dictate who makes the calls on how you play. This is not the case and as I said, will be covered in the QnA.
-Paul

Thank you Sir Inouye. Please refresh the ole' memory, when will the QnA release day be?

[Raeven]

So I waded through most of this thread. My eyes glazed over a few times...so I'm sure I didn't catch everything said. I was especially distracted by the drama between Haeso and Red Beard. You guys should go get a room together.

What if LP was able to be awarded from player to player? So you have super stick jock who just wants to drop, but doesn't care about the benefits of LP. His good friend is a damn good strategist, but doesn't have the time to grind like the stick jock so he doesn't have enough LP to do what he does best. Stick jock then awards his good buddy however much LP he can and petitions a few more of his friends to award the same buddy LP as well.

You get the benefits of players controlling who commands them (assuming that's one of the main functions of LP) and commanders not having to keep up their attendance just to maintain enough LP to do their job as commanders.

[metro]

Raeven, on 09 December 2011 - 03:53 AM, said:

So I waded through most of this thread. My eyes glazed over a few times...so I'm sure I didn't catch everything said. I was especially distracted by the drama between Haeso and Red Beard. You guys should go get a room together.

What if LP was able to be awarded from player to player? So you have super stick jock who just wants to drop, but doesn't care about the benefits of LP. His good friend is a damn good strategist, but doesn't have the time to grind like the stick jock so he doesn't have enough LP to do what he does best. Stick jock then awards his good buddy however much LP he can and petitions a few more of his friends to award the same buddy LP as well.

You get the benefits of players controlling who commands them (assuming that's one of the main functions of LP) and commanders not having to keep up their attendance just to maintain enough LP to do their job as commanders.

Hey Raeven, did you see this with your glazed over eyes....if so, here ya go. Looks like we have a LOAD of info coming down the pipes concerning this topic. =)

Paul Inouye, on 08 December 2011 - 05:17 PM, said:

Basically my point is this. We haven't released all the information regarding LP. We also haven't released any information besides mile high level details on Role Warfare. In the QnA we will be addressing what LP is exactly and how it works within the game's overall design. I've seen a lot of people here think that LP is going to dictate who makes the calls on how you play. This is not the case and as I said, will be covered in the QnA.
-Paul

[KitLightning]

Celestial, on 07 December 2011 - 09:23 PM, said:

I haven't logged in here for a month, I just lurk since I'm too lazy to log in every time.
But Honestly you guys, relax.
I'm extremely pleased about the ideas they have brought in. in fact I'm more excited to play this than ever.
The planetary conquest... the control over Mercs... RPG elements... Cryengine 3.... WHAT more can you ask for?

Patience

Completely ignores the rest of the scribbles until the Q&A on this is posted. Its futile imho

[Haeso]

[EDMW]CSN, on 09 December 2011 - 01:04 AM, said:

What I see LP is a form of reputation. Basically blah blah blah to fanatical.

This could give you some fringe benefits on your end to stay with a certain house, like having better salvage rights. More pay, access to rarer equipment, free repair and reloads etc. Major merc houses like McCarron or WD have their own planets and factories but I doubt player own mercs will reach that kind of level anytime soon.

But it does do something that isn't just a fringe benefit =p

Quote

Anyway rank does not matter in an MMO, if you have being playing in any competitive with FPS or MMORPG etc The guy with the highest rank might not be the unit / Clan commander. Simple as that.

In the FPSes and MMOs you've played. Which is precisely what we'd like to avoid, rank should have meaning, and there are more than a few games that have shown how to do it. Several of them Battletech in fact.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Haeso, on 09 December 2011 - 07:58 AM, said:

But it does do something that isn't just a fringe benefit =p


In the FPSes and MMOs you've played. Which is precisely what we'd like to avoid, rank should have meaning, and there are more than a few games that have shown how to do it. Several of them Battletech in fact.

In a player run merc unit that everyone is on board with the leadership, I totally agree. In a house unit that I will basically have no say, absolutely not. The vast majority of players shouldn't be relegated to peon status while a few ultra hard core players get to make decisions that affect them.