23 replies to this topic

[happy mech]

hello all,

question for you experts on battletech, what should be the hp values of the things that are inside the mech and crittable, or what are the rules how to calculate them?
if you can post or point me where to find it

thank you

[Escef]

There are none. When a mech takes structural damage to a hit location you roll for a chance at a critical hit for each instance of internal damage to the location (if your right torso got hit by 2 SRMs and 3 pellets from an LBX cluster that would be cause for 5 checks), you then roll to see what critical slot gets hit (re-roll the slot if you end up hitting an uncritable item, such as CASE, ferro armor, etc.). A single critical hit against most systems disables them. Sensors can take 1 crit and still function at partial effectiveness, as can the gyro. Fusion engines generate an extra 5 heat for the first critical slot destroyed, 10 if two slots have been destroyed, and ceases to function at all if it takes a 3rd critical hit (this is why Inner Sphere XL engines are considered destroyed if you lose the side torso, that's effectively 3 engine crits).

[BFHKitteh]

You roll two dice (called 2d6 in tabletop parlance), compare what you rolled to a table and apply damage to the component that you hit. If you roll a 2, a 1 in 36 chance, you do a crit to the center torso even if it still has armor.

In any other case, you only do a crit if there is no armor left on the component when you damage it you roll another 2d6.
1/18 chance of doing 1 crit, 1/18 chance of doing 2 crits, 1/36 chance of doing 3 crits if it is a torso, or destroying the component if it is the head or a limb.

Then you look at your mech's record sheet where is has a handy crit table, and roll another 2d6.



Depending on what you hit different things happen, if you hit a blank space or something that was already destroyed you reroll, so every crit damages a component. Almost everything with few exceptions gets destroyed in one hit, there is no HP system. If a small laser hits your 200 rounds of SRM ammo, goodbye. The box in the middle at the bottom is the closest thing to HP there is, the engine leaks heat as ts shielding is destroyed and shuts down on the third one to prevent a catastrophic leak. When the gyro is damaged the pilot has to make a skill roll, or fall down, when doing things that don't normally require one, and does so with a modifier that makes it easier to fall. When it gets destroyed the mech falls and can't get up. One sensor hit makes it more difficult to hit targets and two makes it impossible to shoot anything.

You can find all these rules in any version of the battletech main rulebook, and there's a free intro rulebook you can download.

Edited by BFHKitteh, 03 April 2016 - 10:29 AM.

[happy mech]

Escef, on 03 April 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

There are none. When a mech takes structural damage to a hit location you roll for a chance at a critical hit for each instance of internal damage to the location (if your right torso got hit by 2 SRMs and 3 pellets from an LBX cluster that would be cause for 5 checks), you then roll to see what critical slot gets hit (re-roll the slot if you end up hitting an uncritable item, such as CASE, ferro armor, etc.). A single critical hit against most systems disables them. Sensors can take 1 crit and still function at partial effectiveness, as can the gyro. Fusion engines generate an extra 5 heat for the first critical slot destroyed, 10 if two slots have been destroyed, and ceases to function at all if it takes a 3rd critical hit (this is why Inner Sphere XL engines are considered destroyed if you lose the side torso, that's effectively 3 engine crits).

thank you, this is what i was looking for, how many hits can the particular component take and what happens if only part of it is destroyed, i was a bit confused as the weapons and other equipment have the hp stat that eats the crits

if you have the time, could somebody clarify to me (or link ) what happens when:
life support loses 1 crit, 2 crits (what about small cockpit?)
sensors lose 1 crit, 2 crits
cockpit loses 1 crit
engine loses 1 crit, 2 crits, 3 crits
gyro loses 1 crit, 2 crits, 3 crits, 4 crits (what about non-standard gyros?)
shoulder is desroyed
upper arm actuator is destroyed
lower arm actuator is destroyed
hand actuator is destroyed
hip is destroyed
upper leg actuator is destroyed
lower leg actuator is destroyed
foot actuator is destroyed

so the component destruction via crits could be implemented into mwo system

[happy mech]

BFHKitteh, on 03 April 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

explanation

thank you

Edited by happy mech, 03 April 2016 - 10:48 AM.

[Escef]

At this point I really recommend picking up the Battletech Introductory Boxed Set, though to be honest it is a bit pricey. Another option would be Battletech Total Warfare (game rules) and Battletech Techmanual (construction rules)... but, again, pricey.

[happy mech]

thank you, will look around

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Escef, on 03 April 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

At this point I really recommend picking up the Battletech Introductory Boxed Set, though to be honest it is a bit pricey. Another option would be Battletech Total Warfare (game rules) and Battletech Techmanual (construction rules)... but, again, pricey.

It's not that pricey, the intro box is only like 45 bucks, it's literally one of the best tabletop gaming deals on the market. you get 26 mechs[24 basic quality mechs and 2 "high quality" mechs], 2 high quality game board style maps, the basic rules, a map of the inner sphere, a quick reference sheet, and the record sheets, as well as the fluff "inner sphere at a glance" lore guide.

The mechs as of the recent intro box are much better quality than the 25th anniversary set, and definately worth the money [they paint up very nicely too]

SO you basically get 2 company's of battlemechs, and all the rules to get playing right away. That's one hell of a deal, when you compare it to games like Warhammer 40k that gives you 2 half army's [of different factions], the rulebook and templates [no maps or anything] for nearly triple the price.

[Escef]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 03 April 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

It's not that pricey, ...

That's one hell of a deal, when you compare it to games like Warhammer 40k that gives you 2 half army's [of different factions], the rulebook and templates [no maps or anything] for nearly triple the price.

Dude, organ transplants aren't that pricey compared to Warhammer 40k.

I'm just evaluating based upon the idea that if you are playing a F2P game than you might not be keen on dropping $40+ on table top gaming stuff. Some people are on a tighter budget than the rest of us.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Escef, on 03 April 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

Dude, organ transplants aren't that pricey compared to Warhammer 40k.

I'm just evaluating based upon the idea that if you are playing a F2P game than you might not be keen on dropping $40+ on table top gaming stuff. Some people are on a tighter budget than the rest of us.

As far as tabletop goes, it's literally dirt cheep for the quality and amount of stuff.

Also given the history of Mechwarrior, it's unlikely that many people that play the game, are entirely cashless... especially given the system requirements for this game.

[Nightmare1]

Does TT even matter considering that it doesn't translate well at all into a game like MWO?

It's better that TT be used as a rough guideline and that's it; attempting to follow it strictly would kill the game, which is why PGI has already broken so many TT rules.

[Mcgral18]

Escef, on 03 April 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

There are none. When a mech takes structural damage to a hit location you roll for a chance at a critical hit for each instance of internal damage to the location (if your right torso got hit by 2 SRMs and 3 pellets from an LBX cluster that would be cause for 5 checks), you then roll to see what critical slot gets hit (re-roll the slot if you end up hitting an uncritable item, such as CASE, ferro armor, etc.). A single critical hit against most systems disables them. Sensors can take 1 crit and still function at partial effectiveness, as can the gyro. Fusion engines generate an extra 5 heat for the first critical slot destroyed, 10 if two slots have been destroyed, and ceases to function at all if it takes a 3rd critical hit (this is why Inner Sphere XL engines are considered destroyed if you lose the side torso, that's effectively 3 engine crits).

It's similar enough in MWO, but the base HP is 10, with the engine at 15...and no negative effects when they're destroyed (for Actuators, Gyro, head items, Engine), aside from weapons and some equipment.
CASE has 0 HP, thus not Crit-able, as do Endo and Ferro slots.

Differences in the 3 crits to die though, MWO just uses "sidesToDie" which is similar, but not the same.

-<Module faction="InnerSphere" CType="CEngineStats" name="Engine_XL_290" id="3356">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\XLEngine.dds" descTag="@Engine_XL_Fusion_290_desc" nameTag="@Engine_XL_Fusion_290"/>
<EngineStats health="15" heatsinks="11" weight="15" rating="290" sidesToDie="1" sideSlots="3" slots="6"/>

-<Internal CType="CLowerArmActuatorStats" name="LowerArmActuator" id="1910">
<Loc descTag="@mdf_LAADesc" nameTag="@mdf_LAA" iconTag="MechInternals\LowerArmActuator.png"/>
<ModuleStats health="10" tons="0" slots="1"/>
<InternalStats toggleType="LowerArmActuator"/>
</Internal>

-<Internal CType="CInternalStats" name="HandActuator" id="1911">
<Loc descTag="@mdf_HADesc" nameTag="@mdf_HA" iconTag="MechInternals\HandActuator.png"/>
<ModuleStats health="10" tons="0" slots="1"/>
<InternalStats toggleType="HandActuator"/>
</Internal>

-<Internal CType="CInternalStats" name="FixedArmorSlot" id="1912">
<Loc descTag="@mdf_FixedArmorSlotDesc" nameTag="@mdf_FixedArmorSlot"/>
<ModuleStats health="0" tons="0" slots="1"/>
</Internal>

-<Internal CType="CInternalStats" name="FixedStructureSlot" id="1913">
<Loc descTag="@mdf_FixedStructureSlotDesc" nameTag="@mdf_FixedStructureSlot"/>
<ModuleStats health="0" tons="0" slots="1"/>
</Internal>

-<Module faction="InnerSphere" CType="CCASEStats" name="CASE" id="9003">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\CASE.dds" descTag="@CASE_desc" nameTag="@CASE"/>
<ModuleStats health="0" tons="0.5" slots="1" amountAllowed="1" components="right_torso, left_torso"/>
</Module>

[Escef]

Nightmare1, on 03 April 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

Does TT even matter considering that it doesn't translate well at all into a game like MWO?

Honestly, it seemed to be that he might have been trying to reverse engineer Battletech from MWO. Possibly to scavenge ideas for his own homebrew mecha-game. Just a guess.

[Nightmare1]

Escef, on 03 April 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

Honestly, it seemed to be that he might have been trying to reverse engineer Battletech from MWO. Possibly to scavenge ideas for his own homebrew mecha-game. Just a guess.

Ah, I misread his post then. Cool stuff.

[happy mech]

Nightmare1, on 03 April 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

Does TT even matter considering that it doesn't translate well at all into a game like MWO?

It's better that TT be used as a rough guideline and that's it; attempting to follow it strictly would kill the game, which is why PGI has already broken so many TT rules.

well, mwo is based on bt, which is basically a bunch of tt rules covered in mechs (and other)
of course not following it strictly, but many rules can be transfered with their idea preserved, even if in different form (for example more contolled hp scale instead of boolean crits)
there is a huge strategical depth possible to take from bt, but if you ignore the rules, 90% of it does not make sense, you just got shooting robots game, which would be a real waste imo

Mcgral18, on 03 April 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

It's similar enough in MWO, but the base HP is 10, with the engine at 15...and no negative effects when they're destroyed (for Actuators, Gyro, head items, Engine), aside from weapons and some equipment.
CASE has 0 HP, thus not Crit-able, as do Endo and Ferro slots.

Differences in the 3 crits to die though, MWO just uses "sidesToDie" which is similar, but not the same.

-<Module faction="InnerSphere" CType="CEngineStats" name="Engine_XL_290" id="3356">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\XLEngine.dds" descTag="@Engine_XL_Fusion_290_desc" nameTag="@Engine_XL_Fusion_290"/>
<EngineStats health="15" heatsinks="11" weight="15" rating="290" sidesToDie="1" sideSlots="3" slots="6"/>

-<Internal CType="CLowerArmActuatorStats" name="LowerArmActuator" id="1910">
<Loc descTag="@mdf_LAADesc" nameTag="@mdf_LAA" iconTag="MechInternals\LowerArmActuator.png"/>
<ModuleStats health="10" tons="0" slots="1"/>
<InternalStats toggleType="LowerArmActuator"/>
</Internal>
 
-<Internal CType="CInternalStats" name="HandActuator" id="1911">
<Loc descTag="@mdf_HADesc" nameTag="@mdf_HA" iconTag="MechInternals\HandActuator.png"/>
<ModuleStats health="10" tons="0" slots="1"/>
<InternalStats toggleType="HandActuator"/>
</Internal>
 
-<Internal CType="CInternalStats" name="FixedArmorSlot" id="1912">
<Loc descTag="@mdf_FixedArmorSlotDesc" nameTag="@mdf_FixedArmorSlot"/>
<ModuleStats health="0" tons="0" slots="1"/>
</Internal>
 
-<Internal CType="CInternalStats" name="FixedStructureSlot" id="1913">
<Loc descTag="@mdf_FixedStructureSlotDesc" nameTag="@mdf_FixedStructureSlot"/>
<ModuleStats health="0" tons="0" slots="1"/>
</Internal>

-<Module faction="InnerSphere" CType="CCASEStats" name="CASE" id="9003">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\CASE.dds" descTag="@CASE_desc" nameTag="@CASE"/>
<ModuleStats health="0" tons="0.5" slots="1" amountAllowed="1" components="right_torso, left_torso"/>
</Module>

nice
big pity it got so rushed then

Escef, on 03 April 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

Honestly, it seemed to be that he might have been trying to reverse engineer Battletech from MWO. Possibly to scavenge ideas for his own homebrew mecha-game. Just a guess.

sorry, i just wanted to understand why is the stuff in mwo like it is and where did it come from, so it does not miss on important mechanics in the original game

[Escef]

happy mech, on 03 April 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

sorry, i just wanted to understand why is the stuff in mwo like it is and where did it come from, so it does not miss on important mechanics in the original game

Ah, I see. No probs, just made a guess.

[wanderer]

Notably, MWO's critical hit system does the precise opposite of TT- multiple smaller hits are generally far better for destroying equipment in TT, but in MWO it's more likely that a single large hit will actually deal enough damage to a component to destroy it before the section loses internals anyway.

It also can't model huge chunks of the 'Mech, including arm/leg actuator damage, engine damage (other than destroying the section = damage), gyro damage, or pretty much anything in the head.

Frankly, some weapons could use a massive bump to their damage to equipment vs. everything else, most notably the LB-X and likely SRMs.

[totgeboren]

As a TT player of many TT games since like forever, this notion that MWO should be the TT game, "but on a PC" really annoys me.
If someone wants to play the TT well then they can go and play the TT. Lore is background, not game-play mechanism. If a new edition of a TT changes some rules, that does not mean the background changes (like, oh, suddenly unit X became a bit better for no obvious reason in battle Y on planet Z).
MWO isn't turn-based for example, so just from that the rules and balance from the TT are already void given the new setting.

Bit off topic perhaps, but this just bugs the hell out of me.

[wanderer]

It'd be useful to draw from to make bad parts of the game better, however.

LRMs hitting in 5's would reduce the scatter effect that they're infamous for. Giving LB-X's a similar role to what they have in TT in a creative manner would improve them as well.

It's not about copypasting TT to MWO, it's about drawing off TT to make MWO more of a coherent product.

[Impyrium]

totgeboren, on 03 April 2016 - 10:37 PM, said:

As a TT player of many TT games since like forever, this notion that MWO should be the TT game, "but on a PC" really annoys me.
If someone wants to play the TT well then they can go and play the TT. Lore is background, not game-play mechanism. If a new edition of a TT changes some rules, that does not mean the background changes (like, oh, suddenly unit X became a bit better for no obvious reason in battle Y on planet Z).
MWO isn't turn-based for example, so just from that the rules and balance from the TT are already void given the new setting.

Bit off topic perhaps, but this just bugs the hell out of me.

MechWarrior is 100% and always has been an adaptation of BT. That's the point- not directly bringing rules from BT, that's silly, but adapting rules or ideas into a real time environment. I don't understand why you'd be bugged about this. It's not about wanting MW to be a PC version of TT, and that isn't what he's asking, it's about wanting to play MechWarrior, a real time cockpit-level adaptation of it.

And there's no reason adapting some rules wouldn't make MWO more interesting. A heat scale which actually has negative effects. Critical hits that cause equipment malfunction. Distinction between walking and running, weapon bob.

I guess personally it bugs me that people feel that just because it's from TT, it couldn't be adapted into MWO. Also off-topic.