Jump to content

Topics On The Clans


16 replies to this topic

#1 Naglinator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary
  • Mercenary
  • 975 posts
  • LocationStrana Mechty

Posted 11 April 2016 - 05:42 AM

Heya, while I sit here bored waiting for Phase 3(and knowing it will probably disappoint) I need something to keep me interested. So I decided to write a little series here on examining the Clans more thoroughly. I will write several articles ranging from Clan socio-economic systems right down to there military tactics.

The Basic Structure of the Clan

Please Note: This work presumes a pre-existing working knowledge of the basic structure of the Clans. It also assumes no underlying fundamental structure or point of view.

On Political Authority

The Clans, as a whole, maintain a fundamentally hierarchical internal structure, but a largely competitive structure with regards to each other (with the exception of certain large-scale tasks carried out under the authority of an ilKhan). In essence, virtually every clan is ruled primarily by the Warrior caste, with the civilian castes being accorded varying levels of respect and rights depending on the clan.

This leads to one reasonable early position: that the Warrior caste fulfill in the Clans the role which the state plays in Robert Nozick's libertarian view of political structures; namely, each is established as the ultimate authority because each holds a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. The state and the Warrior caste are in charge because they are the only ones allowed to use coercive force, wherein lies the prima facie ultimate source of political authority. Furthermore, each structure is only stable insofar as the entire society accepts this monopoly on force to be legitimate; if a territory is filled with multiple non-state factions which make use of coercive force and which challenge the state monopoly on the use of force, then the state can no longer be considered the ultimate source of authority. In the same way, if one of the civilian castes were to exercise large levels of coercive force independent of and in opposition to the Warrior caste, the Warrior caste in question could no longer legitimately claim to be the ultimate source of authority.

Consider a rare case of a civilian caste gaining ascendancy: the Merchant caste of Clan Diamond Shark (formerly Clan Sea Fox). There is no question that the Warrior caste are nominally in control of Clan Diamond Shark; Khans are always Warriors, and to do otherwise would run so contrary to the teachings of Kerensky that the Diamond Sharks would be lucky to avoid a Trial of Annihilation, let alone a Trial of Absorption, if they tried it. On the other hand, the heads of the Merchant caste (often themselves retired Warriors, following Diamond Shark tradition of honoured Warriors retiring into civilian castes) are widely considered to have more de facto influence over clan policy than the Khan.

How can this be so? Certainly, the Merchants never take up arms against the Warriors, so they cannot be said to be overtly making use of coercive force. However, the fact is that the Diamond Shark touman has never been particularly strong, depending largely on the success of the Merchant caste for it's supply and remarkable, skillful success in beating other clans at the bidding table, if not on the battlefield. This was particularly true after Tukkayid, where the Diamond Shark touman was decimated, suffering the worst losses of any clan. At this point, the Warrior caste was completely dependent upon the Merchant caste for its own ability to exercise coercive force. In this case, the Merchant caste of Clan Diamond Shark can be seen as occupying the "force monopoly" role of the state in that they have such indirect coercive control over the Warrior caste that Warriors are more acting as "force agents" of the Merchants than as ultimate authorities in themselves. It is this way that the Merchant caste, and not the Warrior caste, are the true rulers of Clan Diamond Shark.

On Militarism and Civilian Control

In 2784, Alekandar Kerensky led the majority of the Star League Defense Force out of the Inner Sphere in Operation Exodus. After the Exodus, his son Nicholas determined that the military heritage and authority of these exiles, who would become the Clans, be kept up in the sociopolitical arena. When he set down the basics of clan structure, he decreed that the Clans would always be ruled by the militaristic Warrior caste, as it was the military of the Star League in the first place who sensed that they were being misused by Inner Sphere civilian authorities and decided to remove themselves from its control.

This scenario has an interesting parallel elsewhere in science fiction: the military coup of Earth which sets the foundation of Robert A. Heinlein's classic Starship Troopers. In this novel, political authority on Earth was also wrested from civilian control by military factions, and was never relinquished. There is an important difference, however; in the Clans, political power remains firmly (with few exceptions) in the hands of the military, in the form of the Warrior caste. In Starship Troopers, however, the junta who take control resign their authority to civilian control...after decreeing that the only ones who would be able to exercize civilian control would be those who had served the state (generally through military service); no member of the armed forces is even allowed to vote until they have left the service, at which point they become essentially the only social class (along with some civil servants) who are allowed to vote.

In truth these scenarios are fairly similar: in one, virtually all political authority rests in the hands of an actual martial class, while in the other, virtually all political authority rests in the hands of a former martial class. So what is the difference in results? At first glance, we can say that the Clans, being guided by Warriors who know only about force, are constantly at war, while in the world of Starship Troopers, being guided by those who understood the sacrifice involved in military force but who themselves are not in a position to exercize such force directly, is at war only when absolutely necessary, and never with itself. Granted, there are a number of additional circumstances attached to each scenario (including the status of external threats), but it is an interesting contrast to note.

On the Military-Industrial Complex

It is a truism in BattleTech that the Clans are always at war. The major causes of this condition are far from mysterious, however; their entire society is based upon propagation through combat. While the Cloud Cobras and Snow Ravens improve their material condition through scientific research and political machinations, and the Diamond Sharks through trade, overarching clan structure is such that any level of advancement, with an upper limit consisting only of all the resources and knowledge of the Clans as a whole, can be attained by combat, if the challenger is adept enough a combatant. Essentially, if Clan A achieves some powerful new development/attains a valuable new resource through research, trade, exploration or negotiations, but Clan B has a more effective touman, Clan B can theoretically acquire the material advancements of Clan A. The converse is not true, however; if the militarily strong Clan B achieves something, it cannot be wrested from them (they cannot even be forced to share) by the adept civilians of Clan A. Even if Clan B is in some kind of crushing dept to Clan A, or put in a harsh political position, a Trial of Refusal can be fought and the whole situation erased simply because Clan B is a better combatant.

This creates powerful incentives forcing a clan to gear its entire social/political/economic policy towards military development, which essentially creates an irreversibly (indeed, likely an intentional) state of military-industrial complex. In fact, it is so highly developed in clan society that this is openly accepted and even promoted as being the case; the Clans do not see themselves as suffering from their being trapped in a military-industrial economic complex, but rather see themselves as benefitting from it, lauding martial success and strength as they do. The determining the worth of such a society is up to political and moral value theorists, and beyond the scope of this analysis, but it is interesting to note the intentional and powerful feedback loop towards military action which is created by the clan military-industrial complex.

On Trends in Failed and Successful Clans

Some clans have done well, prospered, and continue to do so. Others have done poorly, or may even have ceased to exist. We might use a few of these examples to create a brief initial inductive analysis of what makes some clans successful and others less so.

When it comes to successful clans, we might consider the Crusader Jade Falcons, the Warden Ghost Bears, and the Crusader Star Adders. The Jade Falcons are one of the leading invading clans, while maintaining an impressive Clan space presence; the Ghost Bears have migrated completely to the Inner Sphere, possessing a huge enclave in the coreward reaches, and keeping only their allotted space on Strana Mechty in Clan space; and the Star Adders are a fully home world clan, likely the dominant force in Clan space. Despite these large initial differences, what do these clans have in common? While the Warrior caste rules, as in all clans, the civilian castes are hardly badly off. The Ghost Bears are known for treating civilians well, and they have extended this policy even to Inner Sphere civilians under their care. The Jade Falcons, while conservative Crusaders who fully support the right of the Warrior caste to rule, recognize the importance of the civilian casts to the touman, and accordingly their civilians enjoy one of the highest standards of living of all the Clans. The Star Adders, despite their overwhelming ground touman and a navy second in size only to that of the Snow Ravens, have among the best of relations with their civilians, including civilian adjutants meant to consider and convey the needs, wants and opinions of the civilian castes to the ruling Warrior caste...although they still will brook no opposition to the right of the Warriors to rule. This consideration of civilian interests, in various ways, is the main similarity between these highly diverse but undoubtedly successful clans. It is even worth noting that this success extends (whether causally of correlationally) to military performance; the Star Adders military might is without question, particularly following their largely intact absorption of Clan Burrock in 3059, and the Ghost Bears and Jade Falcons were two of only three clans who achieved objectives on Tukayyid.

Now, on to failed/failing clans: I will consider Clan Smoke Jaguar, Clan Widowmaker and Clan Steel Viper. The Smoke Jaguars, recently crippled and relegated to Fallen status by the brutal and swift success of Operation Bulldog, were notorious for brutalizing their civilian castes, both in Clan space and particularly in the Inner Sphere, where their tactics of using orbital bombardment to virtually destroy restless conquered populations made them obvious initial targets of the new SLDF counterattack. Clan Widowmaker were Absorbed (indeed, almost Annihilated) by Clan Wolf following what is generally referred to as having taken “brutal actions against their own civilians;” they are also among the most reviled of the Fallen (with the exception of Clan Wolverine, the Not-Named Clan), as one of their members illegally killed a neutral referee, who happened Khan Nicholas Kerensky of Clan Wolf, during the Trial of Absorption. Finally, the Steel Vipers, while not a Fallen clan, are the only invading clan who have been forced to withdraw entirely from the Inner Sphere; their touman is among the smallest in all Clan space; they were
hardly even sociopolitically stable as a clan until the mid-29th century; and their continued enmity with the formidable alliance of Clans Jade Falcon and Snow Raven (who together comprise the largest touman and navy of all the Clans) make it unlikely that their fortunes will be reversed any time soon. Furthermore, they are known for being entirely willing to execute any of their own civilians who have any contact whatsoever with any civilians of any other clans, other than that which is absolutely necessary, such as for the poorly-respected (by Steel Vipers, anyway) Merchant caste. Again, whether such wanton brutality is some kind of cause of misfortune in general (as it certainly was for the Widowmakers, and even for the Smoke Jaguars) or merely a non-causal correlation is up for debate, but it would appear that the general trend is far from negligible: those clans which are by and large successful treat their civilian castes well (though the Warriors still rule, undoubtedly), while those clans who brutalizing and oppress their civilians tend to have various troubles, sometimes even leading to virtual annihilation.

#2 Tordin

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Wolf
  • The Wolf
  • 2,936 posts
  • LocationNordic Union

Posted 11 April 2016 - 07:14 AM

Nice read this. Sure got more insight in how the clans do their daily lives on different aspects of their military society.

Might sound off . topic or odd to ask, but I have to. I have read what I could about the Ghost bears and FRR on Sarna, though I feel theres something more to it.
Though do you have any insight if the Ghost Bears could let go of the FRR after the merge or are The Rasalhague Dominion lasting eternal without any hope for the pure FRR loyalist to ever gain back territory?
Also werent Ghost Bears along with Snow Ravens, Wolves, Star Adders, Jade Falcons, Diamond Shark etc very fair to their clan and IS civilians?
Maybe thats why theres no future for a thriving pre - invasion FRR territory? Because the civilians under the care of both Rasalhague and Ghost Bears are so good? And rebellion, revolutions quickly killed off?

#3 Naglinator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary
  • Mercenary
  • 975 posts
  • LocationStrana Mechty

Posted 11 April 2016 - 07:18 AM

Lol a hefty question :) I'll think about it during work and come back to you tonight with some thoughts.

#4 Tordin

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Wolf
  • The Wolf
  • 2,936 posts
  • LocationNordic Union

Posted 11 April 2016 - 08:08 AM

I had to ask, Im born curious Posted Image

#5 Naglinator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary
  • Mercenary
  • 975 posts
  • LocationStrana Mechty

Posted 11 April 2016 - 04:24 PM

Clan Ghost Bear

Of course for full disclosure I shall admit to not like CGB not very much :) That is because I don't like traitors. Otherwise they are a strong clan, but one WITHOUT a strong future. Almost all the clans with close civilian bonds(Raven, Wolf, Coyote, Ghost Bear, Etc) usually end up being strong clans for obvious reason I listed above. The exception to this rule is Clan Blood Spirit and this is because there extreme isolationist ways limited there ability to expand. There strong civilian bond is the only reason they still exist</div>

But back to bear in the room. I feel the writers of the Bears have alluded already to their future and it's basically what happens to all hordes which try to integrate with their conquests. The first merging of CGB with the FRR into the Ghost Bear Dominion is analogous to the Mongolian Empire starting with Kublai Khan himself. Kublai wanted to integrate his dynasty with the Chinese in order to improve his legitimacy with his conquered people. In fact the majority of troops used during Kublai's conquest were Chinese not Mongolian. Now the problem with the kind of integration is that the MUCH bigger conquered people only have to wait out a few generation for the smaller conquers to become so ingrained into the new culture that they lose what's special about them. In the case of the Mongolians and the Ghost Bears that's the ability to fight.

>Another good parallel would be the Hun Tribes who conquered the Carpathian basin a 100 years before Genghis khans European invasion. When the first arrived they're warrior lifestyle and horseback tactics allowed them easily crush all the defenders and to form Hungary as a result. This, however, led them to adopt the ways of their conquests and become Christian, Feudal, and to adopt European ways of fighting. This led to their disastrous defeats at the hands of the Mongolians just a 100 years later.

The purpose of all these historical examples is to show just how the writers of the CGB saga have already written there future. They will form the Ghost Bear Dominion, then become more Freebirth and become the Rasalhague Dominion adopting more and more inner sphere ways of life until probably in the 33rd Century they will revert back finally to Inner Sphere culture and stop being clan at all.

Edited by Naglinator, 11 April 2016 - 04:25 PM.


#6 SnagaDance

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • Little Helper
  • 1,860 posts
  • LocationThe Netherlands

Posted 12 April 2016 - 01:44 AM

Quite an impressive look at the Clans! Are you by any chance a professional historian? The way you make comparisons, refer to correlation and the historical parallels made with the Huns and Mongols in the Ghost Bear piece makes this seem likely. Posted Image

I can't help but notice that you've rather ignored the Clans their own history between Exodus from the IS to the formation of the Clans themselves. I'd say the large role played by disaffected ex-military personel and reburgeoning IS house 'allegiances', the resulting revolutions on the Pentagon worlds and the second exodus has had a huge impact on the Clans their political framework. How do you see this chapter in their nascent history impacting their subsequent development?

#7 Naglinator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary
  • Mercenary
  • 975 posts
  • LocationStrana Mechty

Posted 12 April 2016 - 08:39 AM

Lol I'm actually a clinical scientist Posted Image Would never waste a degree on history, you can learn it for free! Just buy books! Posted Image That aside I split up the clan history pre-exodus into three parts. The Alexander era, the nicholas era, and the Golden century. Essentially the clans formed during the Nicholas era and evolved to what we see during the golden century. Is there a particular part you'd like me to talk about? I can just go chronologically if you like, give me a day or two to ponder.

#8 SnagaDance

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • Little Helper
  • 1,860 posts
  • LocationThe Netherlands

Posted 12 April 2016 - 10:39 AM

By all means, go chronologically!

#9 Tordin

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Wolf
  • The Wolf
  • 2,936 posts
  • LocationNordic Union

Posted 03 May 2016 - 08:14 AM

Thanks for the input Naglinator, interesting stuff regarding the real world comparisons. Didnt think of that Posted Image

#10 Oblitum Infernos

    Member

  • Pip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 15 posts

Posted 10 April 2017 - 11:55 PM

View PostNaglinator, on 11 April 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

Clan Ghost Bear

Of course for full disclosure I shall admit to not like CGB not very much Posted Image That is because I don't like traitors.


Normally i don't bother to post much on here, but i simply couldn't let that line come from a wolf and not set the record straight, the wolves are by far the biggest traitors to the clans in the entire battle tech setting. this traitorous action being the blasted dragoon compromise, the wolfs dragoons after their scouting mission started found the inner sphere weak and ripe for reclamation by the clans and purposefully started disseminating technology and tactics to the inner sphere in order to strengthen the houses before the invasion not to mention how they delayed the invasion by 50 years in order to ensure that they had time to do so, which you can read about on sarna

" Though the Dragoons would perform their primary task at an outstanding level of efficient diligence, the focus of their mission was altered significantly during their resupply run in 3019, after the death of Joshua Wolf during the Marik Civil War. Khan Ward realized that an invasion was highly likely, though still distant time-wise. In a maverick move against the increasingly antagonistic Crusaders, he would order the Wolf's Dragoons to secretly begin preparing the armies of the Great Houses for the coming invasion, swearing them to follow the orders of no other Khan except for him.[12] "

At least read the lore before you start throwing insults around Dezgra.

#11 FLG 01

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Leutnant
  • Leutnant
  • 2,646 posts

Posted 11 April 2017 - 12:47 PM

View PostOblitum Infernos, on 10 April 2017 - 11:55 PM, said:

this traitorous action being the blasted dragoon compromise, the wolfs dragoons after their scouting mission started found the inner sphere weak and ripe for reclamation by the clans and purposefully started disseminating technology and tactics to the inner sphere in order to strengthen the houses before the invasion


You will find that the extent of the Dragoon's 'help' is subject to much debate among BT-fans, putting it mildly. One example: what technology exactly was "disseminated" by the Dragoons? I am not aware of any technological (re-)discovery helped by the Dragoons. Instead, the SL-tech data was provided by the Helm Memory Core, recovered by the Gray Death Legion. Also, IS had to figure out how to build Battle Armor or OmniMechs on their own via reverse engineering salvaged ClanTech - while the Invasion was in full swing. And in 3053 they outright denied the FedCom access to their LFE developments. It took a Loki commando raid to forcefully get the plans.

The Dragoons did the IS a great service with the Outreach conference and with their couragous defense of Luthien, but that was long after they servered their ties to the Clans. And as far as technology is concerned the best that could be said about them is that they did not stand in the way of rediscovering LosTech.

#12 Metus regem

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Sureshot
  • The Sureshot
  • 10,282 posts
  • LocationNAIS College of Military Science OCS courses

Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:02 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 11 April 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:




The Dragoons did the IS a great service with the Outreach conference and with their couragous defense of Luthien, but that was long after they servered their ties to the Clans. And as far as technology is concerned the best that could be said about them is that they did not stand in the way of rediscovering LosTech.



Unlike ComStar....

#13 Jables McBarty

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,035 posts
  • LocationIn the backfield.

Posted 24 April 2017 - 02:11 PM

Good read :)

However, I have to say that this

View PostNaglinator, on 12 April 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Lol I'm actually a clinical scientist Posted Image Would never waste a degree on history, you can learn it for free! Just buy books! Posted Image


reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of what professional historians do ;)

(it mostly involves primary-source research in archives, e.g., going through bits of supply lists left over by Napoleon's quartermasters, or even more interestingly, left over by a shopkeeper in the early Swiss confederate cantons.)

#14 Fake News

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Messenger
  • The Messenger
  • 519 posts

Posted 25 April 2017 - 02:05 PM

Clan Mommies?

http://www.theverge....-preterm-infant

#15 Vanguard319

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,436 posts
  • LocationTerra

Posted 26 April 2017 - 12:18 AM

What about the Blood Spirits? They were also known to foster comradery and esprit de corps within their own clan, including their civilians. Their Touman was small, but it was considered one of the best trained in clan space. Yet despite these qualities, it fell in the aftermath of the Wars of Reaving. It seems treating your civvies well and having a well trained military may not be enough to survive as a clan. I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on this.

#16 MechaBattler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 5,119 posts

Posted 29 April 2017 - 12:04 PM

View PostVanguard319, on 26 April 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

What about the Blood Spirits? They were also known to foster comradery and esprit de corps within their own clan, including their civilians. Their Touman was small, but it was considered one of the best trained in clan space. Yet despite these qualities, it fell in the aftermath of the Wars of Reaving. It seems treating your civvies well and having a well trained military may not be enough to survive as a clan. I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on this.


Their isolationist policy hindered their growth. Also pissing off the Star Adders because they wanted a piece of Clan Burrock was just such ridiculous move. I feel like isolation made them less apt in the political arena as well.

#17 Naglinator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary
  • Mercenary
  • 975 posts
  • LocationStrana Mechty

Posted 29 April 2017 - 12:08 PM

View PostOblitum Infernos, on 10 April 2017 - 11:55 PM, said:


Normally i don't bother to post much on here, but i simply couldn't let that line come from a wolf and not set the record straight, the wolves are by far the biggest traitors to the clans in the entire battle tech setting. this traitorous action being the blasted dragoon compromise, the wolfs dragoons after their scouting mission started found the inner sphere weak and ripe for reclamation by the clans and purposefully started disseminating technology and tactics to the inner sphere in order to strengthen the houses before the invasion not to mention how they delayed the invasion by 50 years in order to ensure that they had time to do so, which you can read about on sarna

" Though the Dragoons would perform their primary task at an outstanding level of efficient diligence, the focus of their mission was altered significantly during their resupply run in 3019, after the death of Joshua Wolf during the Marik Civil War. Khan Ward realized that an invasion was highly likely, though still distant time-wise. In a maverick move against the increasingly antagonistic Crusaders, he would order the Wolf's Dragoons to secretly begin preparing the armies of the Great Houses for the coming invasion, swearing them to follow the orders of no other Khan except for him.[12] "

At least read the lore before you start throwing insults around Dezgra.

Agreed, Warden Wolves under Ulric are huge time traitors. However, joining the inner sphere and getting involved in monarchies draws the lines. CGB is far more guilty to me.

View PostJables McBarty, on 24 April 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

Good read Posted Image

However, I have to say that this



reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of what professional historians do Posted Image

(it mostly involves primary-source research in archives, e.g., going through bits of supply lists left over by Napoleon's quartermasters, or even more interestingly, left over by a shopkeeper in the early Swiss confederate cantons.)

Historians vs History students, agreed. People who gather information are much different then those who study it and become history teachers....

View PostMechaBattler, on 29 April 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:


Their isolationist policy hindered their growth. Also pissing off the Star Adders because they wanted a piece of Clan Burrock was just such ridiculous move. I feel like isolation made them less apt in the political arena as well.

Yeah, going against the mighty Star Adders... bad idea. The Blood Asps are kinda like the pictures you see of 40s Soviet Union and 60s China. Everyone pitching in for the common good.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users