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Behold! The Nightstar! (Victory Achieved!) #nightstar2017

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#381 DarthHias

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 12:34 PM

Story is really great man!

Make it so! (insert picard meme)

#382 Alex Morgaine

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 05:14 PM

View PostTheArisen, on 26 May 2016 - 08:24 PM, said:


You've gotta be kidding me, no way am I going to spend 80k, tons of ppl don't even make that in a year haha.


3(s) of each normal type, custom geometry, all camo unlocked, dhs pre bought, he'll it's still too much. Maybe 500 for that and a gold skin :P

#383 TheArisen

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 10:09 PM

View PostFrosty Brand, on 31 May 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

3(s) of each normal type, custom geometry, all camo unlocked, dhs pre bought, he'll it's still too much. Maybe 500 for that and a gold skin :P


Haha, I'd want 300% premium time & some stock on top of what you mentioned for 80k.

View PostFLG 01, on 31 May 2016 - 10:21 AM, said:


Agreed on both points. Usually, he'd be ROM'ed before making it through the night. However the Battle of Tukayyid and Operation Scorpion left many ComStars disillusioned and embittered. Few quit altogether, most joined WoB. I am not sure if any joined the Houses, though.




Actually why not a WoB-hero?


Nightstar NSR-XM

Engine, Chassis and Armour:
  • XL380
  • Standard
  • Standard
Armament and Equipment:
  • 1x ER PPC
  • 2x UAC/5
  • 3x MPL
  • 4x MG
  • 1x BAP
  • 2x CASE
Pilot and Affiliation:
  • (Demi-)Precentor Xaver Murr
  • Word of Blake, previously ComStar
Lore:

Had he known of Focht’s treachery, Demi-Precentor Xaver Murr would have powered up his Nightstar and walked straight to Hilton Head, all guns blazing, as would have most of his comrades in the Second Primus Guards Division. But in the chaos of June, Anastasius Focht was still thought to be a hero – the victor of Tukayyid, slayer of the Clans – and no one really knew what was going on when word of the Primus’s death spread.

The two Guards Divisions dispersed and most of their members joined the Word of Blake on Gibson in the Free Worlds League, where they formed the bulk of the elite First Division as well as the officer cadres of the other divisions which were to be mustered soon. Despite the invitation of the Free Worlds League, the people of Gibson were openly hostile to the children of Blake and there was little choice but to fight back in order to preserve Blake’s Word. Hope was hanging by a thread these days, and the newly formed WoBM could not allow some peasants to disrupt the rebuilding of the Order.

So in 3053, a small war erupted on Gibson, too small to be noticed by the Inner Sphere, yet very real for the fledging Word. One day on patrol Demi-Precentor Murr was ambushed by a few hovercrafts luring him to a hidden infantry position where he was showered with Inferno Missiles. None of his formidable weapons were of great use. He was able to destroy a hovercraft but once the Infernos hit, he was limited to his Gauss Rifles which did very little against the well camouflaged infantry. Murr was eventually relieved but his Nightstar was a mess. Both Gauss Rifles had exploded, the armour on the torso was breached, and the engine was destroyed.

Murr’s Nightstar was recovered nonetheless, and when conversing with the Precentor Martial Trent Arian, he asked for permission to rebuild it with a much stronger focus on the asymmetrical warfare they were facing on Gibson. Arian agreed and thus the Nightstar got a larger engine for faster movement, the Gauss Rifles were replaced with multi-purpose Ultra Autocannons, and four Machine Guns were added. In his righteous fury, Murr also wanted flamers, however Arian insisted on the ability to kill armoured opponents too, and a battery of Medium Pulse Lasers completed the armament. Lastly, a Beagle Active Probe improved the sensory equipment and increased the situational awareness of the Mech to avoid further ambushes.

Once completed the NSR-XM soon became the bane of the rebel Gibson Freedom League. In the first engagement of the new Nightstar, the skirmishing hovercraft were shelled with the UACs, and then Murr had no problems of finding the infantry, run them down, and kill them all in a hail of grenades and bullets. With no survivors to tell the story, similar battles were fought and won by Murr over the next few weeks. And even after the insurgents realized what kind of opponent this Mech war, trying to avoid it at all costs, a merciless Murr continued his vengeance in the name of Blake.

The NSR-XM later proved its worth in conventional combat when the so-called Knights of the Inner Sphere arrived on Gibson in 3054. This pretentious clique of self-important pseudo-moralists in service of the false Thomas Marik initiated an unprovoked aggression against the Word, to which loyal troops had only one answer. Murr cut a bloody bath right through the enemy ranks and came within hairbreadth to destroy the Phoenix Hawk of self-proclaimed “Sir” Paul Masters. He had him in his sights, but then the enemies of the Word showed their understanding of “nobility” by detonating a nuclear bomb. They probably knew the Precentor Martial had but one flaw, his compassion, and indeed he ordered his troops to stand down hoping to avoid the further bloodshed of what he thought were innocent people.

But Xaver Murr had not forgotten the dirty deeds of the Knights. Vengeance would be his, once again.



Lore Commentary:

The Primus Guards Divisions are mentioned once but never again, so I suppose they were disbanded. And considering they were the diehard ComStar loyalists, I think they mostly joined WoB.

The war on Gibson was a bloody affair, and I would not be surprised if the WoBM had modified some of their Mechs for this small war.

The final Battle of Gibson was a strange affair, but it was the first big battle of the WoBM and it included the PHX of Masters, a hero-Mech we will get soon. So why not give us one from the other side?



MWO Commentary:

In MWO this would be a very powerful Mech. No less than six ballistic hardpoints and four energy hardpoints provide you with all the firepower you need, while the huge engine allows for maximum speed. It is not without drawbacks though. All the ballistics are mounted in the arms and thus easily destroyed; in fact only two hardpoints are not mounted in the arms, and one of them is a small hardpoint in the head. The rest can be regulated via quirks.



Image:

Posted Image










So what do you think?


I would like at least 1 ballistic in the torso to enable triple gauss & other builds but otherwise I like the HPs.

#384 Karl Streiger

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 11:18 PM

View PostTheArisen, on 31 May 2016 - 10:09 PM, said:

Haha, I'd want 300% premium time & some stock on top of what you mentioned for 80k.

I would like at least 1 ballistic in the torso to enable triple gauss & other builds but otherwise I like the HPs.


Isn't gold camo supposed to be collapsable matter - four times as durable as the average paint job?
Tripple Gauss? Isn't tripple Gauss something you would never use and still would rally the "P2W whine babys"?

#385 FLG 01

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 03:24 AM

View PostTheArisen, on 31 May 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

I'm not a WoB fan but this is perfect. I really like how it ties in with another hero. I might laugh at him because he got because he got roughed up by hovercraft & infantry but it's a good story & one your better fanfics.


Thanks! Keep in mind asymmetrical warfare is very unpredictable, especially when the only experience your troops have is fighting the Clans, i.e. fighting a heavily ritualized and very much symmetrical warfare. Losing a Mech which was designed for combat with other Mechs to infantry isn't all that surprising if the infantry is doing well. And you got to give the GFL infantry some credit: they took an extreme risk carrying around inferno missiles, without being protected by tons of armour and CASE.

I personally don't like the Jihad-era WoB, but the early WoB was a nice wonky gang with a charming mixture of pragmatists, idealists, and fanatics. Too bad the fanatics gained the upper hand. I never liked how cartoonishly evil the Word became.
Anyway, in 3053 (or 3054 next year) we have to deal with the simple fact that a ComStar or WoB hero is the most plausible solution.


View PostKarl Streiger, on 31 May 2016 - 11:18 PM, said:

Tripple Gauss? Isn't tripple Gauss something you would never use and still would rally the "P2W whine babys"?


It is certainly something I would not use. I really do not think triple-Gauss is a good loadout: You can charge only two GR, which limits your alpha strike. The clan quad-Gauss is a useable niche build because it works like two dual-Gauss, but also because quad-Clan-Gauss is affordable in terms of weight and space; it is close to triple-IS-Gauss (48 tons and 24 crits vs 45 tons and 21 crits).

And to load triple-Gauss on the Nightstar, you would either have to go without any secondary armament and low ammo (6 tons), or move super slowly (like 45 kph) with some secondary armament and still low ammo. It is not just weight, but also crit space you need. I have been tinkering a lot; however I did not end up with any triple-Gauss NSR worth taking.
And that is not even tackling the special weaknesses of the Gauss Rifle, like its tendency to explode which makes torso mounted GR a bad choice Mechs with XL engine...

Therefore I still think dual-Gauss with meaningful backup weaponry is not only more flexible but also more powerful.

Edited by FLG 01, 01 June 2016 - 03:28 AM.


#386 TheArisen

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 09:34 AM

View PostFLG 01, on 01 June 2016 - 03:24 AM, said:


Thanks! Keep in mind asymmetrical warfare is very unpredictable, especially when the only experience your troops have is fighting the Clans, i.e. fighting a heavily ritualized and very much symmetrical warfare. Losing a Mech which was designed for combat with other Mechs to infantry isn't all that surprising if the infantry is doing well. And you got to give the GFL infantry some credit: they took an extreme risk carrying around inferno missiles, without being protected by tons of armour and CASE.

I personally don't like the Jihad-era WoB, but the early WoB was a nice wonky gang with a charming mixture of pragmatists, idealists, and fanatics. Too bad the fanatics gained the upper hand. I never liked how cartoonishly evil the Word became.
Anyway, in 3053 (or 3054 next year) we have to deal with the simple fact that a ComStar or WoB hero is the most plausible solution.




It is certainly something I would not use. I really do not think triple-Gauss is a good loadout: You can charge only two GR, which limits your alpha strike. The clan quad-Gauss is a useable niche build because it works like two dual-Gauss, but also because quad-Clan-Gauss is affordable in terms of weight and space; it is close to triple-IS-Gauss (48 tons and 24 crits vs 45 tons and 21 crits).

And to load triple-Gauss on the Nightstar, you would either have to go without any secondary armament and low ammo (6 tons), or move super slowly (like 45 kph) with some secondary armament and still low ammo. It is not just weight, but also crit space you need. I have been tinkering a lot; however I did not end up with any triple-Gauss NSR worth taking.
And that is not even tackling the special weaknesses of the Gauss Rifle, like its tendency to explode which makes torso mounted GR a bad choice Mechs with XL engine...

Therefore I still think dual-Gauss with meaningful backup weaponry is not only more flexible but also more powerful.


Yeah it makes sense for the infantry to be able to do that. I just don't think he'd be able to ever live that down, you hinted at that because instead of mpls he wanted flamers. I'd imagine him getting lots of grief which left him fuming.

Triple gauss would work because you take away one of the gauss rifle's weaknesses and have good DPS. You'd probably need to forgo backup weapons and be a dedicated support mech though. The Mauler 1P does pretty well with dual gauss & an XL, largely because of it's structure quirks but it works quite well.

#387 FLG 01

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 11:39 AM

View PostTheArisen, on 01 June 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

Yeah it makes sense for the infantry to be able to do that. I just don't think he'd be able to ever live that down, you hinted at that because instead of mpls he wanted flamers. I'd imagine him getting lots of grief which left him fuming.


Pretty much this. Getting your Mech destroyed by infantry is bad enough, getting a precious LosTech assault Mech destroyed by infantry certainly leaves a mark, if when it was done with dirty tricks.


View PostTheArisen, on 01 June 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

Triple gauss would work because you take away one of the gauss rifle's weaknesses and have good DPS. You'd probably need to forgo backup weapons and be a dedicated support mech though. The Mauler 1P does pretty well with dual gauss & an XL, largely because of it's structure quirks but it works quite well.


Suffice to say I disagree and just move on. So, how would you run such a Mech? What engine, what ammo load, etc.? Also what tactics, considering you cannot fire more than two GR? I am totally open to fresh opinions.

... however I would like to point out that if you really want triple GR on an IS Mech badly, you may be lobbying for the wrong Mech. Posted Image

#388 TheArisen

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 11:50 AM

View PostFLG 01, on 01 June 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:


Pretty much this. Getting your Mech destroyed by infantry is bad enough, getting a precious LosTech assault Mech destroyed by infantry certainly leaves a mark, if when it was done with dirty tricks.




Suffice to say I disagree and just move on. So, how would you run such a Mech? What engine, what ammo load, etc.? Also what tactics, considering you cannot fire more than two GR? I am totally open to fresh opinions.

... however I would like to point out that if you really want triple GR on an IS Mech badly, you may be lobbying for the wrong Mech. Posted Image


Alright I'll let it go. Now that I think about it I've made it seem like I'm desperate for an IS triple gauss mech. My bad.

After taking a step back I can see the potential in the HPs you setup. Dual gauss + triple ERLLas, etc. The large engine really makes the mech.

#389 FLG 01

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 06:07 AM

Nah, no hard feelings, we are just discussing friendly. Posted Image

Anyway, the hardpoints and the armament of the NSR-XM were made with one set-up in mind: 4x UAC/5. I do not like it as much as others do, but I can see why some people like it. And as the UAC/5 is part of the stock armament PGI might even give it a jam-reduction quirk.

#390 TheArisen

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 06:28 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 02 June 2016 - 06:07 AM, said:

Nah, no hard feelings, we are just discussing friendly. Posted Image

Anyway, the hardpoints and the armament of the NSR-XM were made with one set-up in mind: 4x UAC/5. I do not like it as much as others do, but I can see why some people like it. And as the UAC/5 is part of the stock armament PGI might even give it a jam-reduction quirk.


You could also do ×5 AC5 or ×2 uac5 & ×4 ac2 all in the arms, unless this variant has hands.

#391 TheArisen

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 05:54 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 31 May 2016 - 10:21 AM, said:


Agreed on both points. Usually, he'd be ROM'ed before making it through the night. However the Battle of Tukayyid and Operation Scorpion left many ComStars disillusioned and embittered. Few quit altogether, most joined WoB. I am not sure if any joined the Houses, though.




Actually why not a WoB-hero?


Nightstar NSR-XM

Engine, Chassis and Armour:
  • XL380
  • Standard
  • Standard
Armament and Equipment:
  • 1x ER PPC
  • 2x UAC/5
  • 3x MPL
  • 4x MG
  • 1x BAP
  • 2x CASE
Pilot and Affiliation:
  • (Demi-)Precentor Xaver Murr
  • Word of Blake, previously ComStar
Lore:

Had he known of Focht’s treachery, Demi-Precentor Xaver Murr would have powered up his Nightstar and walked straight to Hilton Head, all guns blazing, as would have most of his comrades in the Second Primus Guards Division. But in the chaos of June, Anastasius Focht was still thought to be a hero – the victor of Tukayyid, slayer of the Clans – and no one really knew what was going on when word of the Primus’s death spread.

The two Guards Divisions dispersed and most of their members joined the Word of Blake on Gibson in the Free Worlds League, where they formed the bulk of the elite First Division as well as the officer cadres of the other divisions which were to be mustered soon. Despite the invitation of the Free Worlds League, the people of Gibson were openly hostile to the children of Blake and there was little choice but to fight back in order to preserve Blake’s Word. Hope was hanging by a thread these days, and the newly formed WoBM could not allow some peasants to disrupt the rebuilding of the Order.

So in 3053, a small war erupted on Gibson, too small to be noticed by the Inner Sphere, yet very real for the fledging Word. One day on patrol Demi-Precentor Murr was ambushed by a few hovercrafts luring him to a hidden infantry position where he was showered with Inferno Missiles. None of his formidable weapons were of great use. He was able to destroy a hovercraft but once the Infernos hit, he was limited to his Gauss Rifles which did very little against the well camouflaged infantry. Murr was eventually relieved but his Nightstar was a mess. Both Gauss Rifles had exploded, the armour on the torso was breached, and the engine was destroyed.

Murr’s Nightstar was recovered nonetheless, and when conversing with the Precentor Martial Trent Arian, he asked for permission to rebuild it with a much stronger focus on the asymmetrical warfare they were facing on Gibson. Arian agreed and thus the Nightstar got a larger engine for faster movement, the Gauss Rifles were replaced with multi-purpose Ultra Autocannons, and four Machine Guns were added. In his righteous fury, Murr also wanted flamers, however Arian insisted on the ability to kill armoured opponents too, and a battery of Medium Pulse Lasers completed the armament. Lastly, a Beagle Active Probe improved the sensory equipment and increased the situational awareness of the Mech to avoid further ambushes.

Once completed the NSR-XM soon became the bane of the rebel Gibson Freedom League. In the first engagement of the new Nightstar, the skirmishing hovercraft were shelled with the UACs, and then Murr had no problems of finding the infantry, run them down, and kill them all in a hail of grenades and bullets. With no survivors to tell the story, similar battles were fought and won by Murr over the next few weeks. And even after the insurgents realized what kind of opponent this Mech war, trying to avoid it at all costs, a merciless Murr continued his vengeance in the name of Blake.

The NSR-XM later proved its worth in conventional combat when the so-called Knights of the Inner Sphere arrived on Gibson in 3054. This pretentious clique of self-important pseudo-moralists in service of the false Thomas Marik initiated an unprovoked aggression against the Word, to which loyal troops had only one answer. Murr cut a bloody bath right through the enemy ranks and came within hairbreadth to destroy the Phoenix Hawk of self-proclaimed “Sir” Paul Masters. He had him in his sights, but then the enemies of the Word showed their understanding of “nobility” by detonating a nuclear bomb. They probably knew the Precentor Martial had but one flaw, his compassion, and indeed he ordered his troops to stand down hoping to avoid the further bloodshed of what he thought were innocent people.

But Xaver Murr had not forgotten the dirty deeds of the Knights. Vengeance would be his, once again.



Lore Commentary:

The Primus Guards Divisions are mentioned once but never again, so I suppose they were disbanded. And considering they were the diehard ComStar loyalists, I think they mostly joined WoB.

The war on Gibson was a bloody affair, and I would not be surprised if the WoBM had modified some of their Mechs for this small war.

The final Battle of Gibson was a strange affair, but it was the first big battle of the WoBM and it included the PHX of Masters, a hero-Mech we will get soon. So why not give us one from the other side?



MWO Commentary:

In MWO this would be a very powerful Mech. No less than six ballistic hardpoints and four energy hardpoints provide you with all the firepower you need, while the huge engine allows for maximum speed. It is not without drawbacks though. All the ballistics are mounted in the arms and thus easily destroyed; in fact only two hardpoints are not mounted in the arms, and one of them is a small hardpoint in the head. The rest can be regulated via quirks.



Image:

Posted Image










So what do you think?


What's the name of the mech? XM stands for Xavier Murr but what's the name of his mech?

#392 TheArisen

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Posted 04 June 2016 - 05:35 PM

View PostTheArisen, on 03 June 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:


What's the name of the mech? XM stands for Xavier Murr but what's the name of his mech?


WoB always seemed to like Latin names so I looked up the Latin for vengeance, it's "vindicta". I'd say that or something similar is appropriate considering the remodel was about making it effective against the infantry that embarrassed him.

#393 ice trey

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Posted 04 June 2016 - 05:53 PM

We don't need the Nightstar.

This is just escalation. All that escalation does is make the remaining mechs more obsolete and unplayed. You don't need to make "A big thing to beat the most recent big thing". The King Crab to beat the Dire wolf... The Kodiak to beat the King Crab... Meanwhile we have mechs like the Victor and Summoner/Thor in a competition to see who can collect the most dust.

What we need is a balance pass. A pass to actually make things balanced - not a pass to see-saw the balance Games Workshop-like move to get players to buy new mech packs in in order to keep up with the latest meta.

Those mechs that nobody plays anymore or have ever played like Kit Foxes, Adders, Summoners, Victors, Highlanders, Vindicators and Awesomes? Beef them up
Those mechs that everyone uses like Jagermechs, Dire Wolfs, Kodiaks, Arctic Cheetahs, Stormcrows, Stalkers, and Blackjacks? Tone them down.

When every mech in the game is used the same percentage of the time, then you have reached a balanced game.

Edited by ice trey, 04 June 2016 - 05:55 PM.


#394 TheArisen

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Posted 04 June 2016 - 06:34 PM

View Postice trey, on 04 June 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

We don't need the Nightstar.

This is just escalation. All that escalation does is make the remaining mechs more obsolete and unplayed. You don't need to make "A big thing to beat the most recent big thing". The King Crab to beat the Dire wolf... The Kodiak to beat the King Crab... Meanwhile we have mechs like the Victor and Summoner/Thor in a competition to see who can collect the most dust.

What we need is a balance pass. A pass to actually make things balanced - not a pass to see-saw the balance Games Workshop-like move to get players to buy new mech packs in in order to keep up with the latest meta.

Those mechs that nobody plays anymore or have ever played like Kit Foxes, Adders, Summoners, Victors, Highlanders, Vindicators and Awesomes? Beef them up
Those mechs that everyone uses like Jagermechs, Dire Wolfs, Kodiaks, Arctic Cheetahs, Stormcrows, Stalkers, and Blackjacks? Tone them down.

When every mech in the game is used the same percentage of the time, then you have reached a balanced game.


Well this isn't about a bigger & bladder mech, I.E. powercreep. I don't think the NSR would need much quirking to be a strong mech.

As for mechs needing a buff, that'll happen when Pgi gets around to it. They're going to continue to release new mechs because that's where most of their money comes from.

#395 FLG 01

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 05:41 AM

View PostTheArisen, on 04 June 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

WoB always seemed to like Latin names so I looked up the Latin for vengeance, it's "vindicta". I'd say that or something similar is appropriate considering the remodel was about making it effective against the infantry that embarrassed him.


Good idea!

But I may take the liberty to recommend another word. Ultio would be a nice choice; think of Mars's famous epithet: Ultor (Avenger) (Augustus decided the temple in the center of the Augustus Forum to Mars Ultor, honouring his vengeance on the assassins of Caesar).
http://www.perseus.t...=ultor-contents
http://www.perseus.t...%C4%ADo#lexicon

Thus I think Ultor would be a good name for the Mech; Nightstar, the Avenger... Posted Image


View Postice trey, on 04 June 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

When every mech in the game is used the same percentage of the time, then you have reached a balanced game.


I disgree, but your point has little to do with the Nightstar itself but new Mechs in general. (Same with the powercreep issue).
So singling out this one Mech seems uncalled for and definitely won't help your cause.

Edited by FLG 01, 05 June 2016 - 05:44 AM.


#396 ice trey

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 06:09 AM

View PostFLG 01, on 05 June 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

I disgree, but your point has little to do with the Nightstar itself but new Mechs in general. (Same with the powercreep issue).
So singling out this one Mech seems uncalled for and definitely won't help your cause.

View PostTheArisen, on 04 June 2016 - 06:34 PM, said:

Well this isn't about a bigger & bladder mech, I.E. powercreep. I don't think the NSR would need much quirking to be a strong mech.

As for mechs needing a buff, that'll happen when Pgi gets around to it. They're going to continue to release new mechs because that's where most of their money comes from.

opening poster said:

[color=#959595]The Nightstar is a 95 ton beast of a mech. All of it's weapons are cockpit height and 2 of it's 3 variants have lower arm actuators. The main variant comes with a 285XL but a different one has a 380xl. A 3rd variant also includes JJ. It mainly has ballistics in it's arms with energy weapons in the torsos. It's lore is that it's the last design in the Marauder family of mechs, the ultimate Marauder if you will.[/color]


My point has nothing to do with being against new mechs, and totally has to do with power creep. Too many people are going onto Sarna to scour for something that looks like it would be the next best thing for the meta. Like you said, it wouldn't need quirks... that's because the OP clearly states that this is about having another 95 ton mech with cockpit height or higher hardpoints, but it's also a super-obscure mech in the time period. There are still factories churning out a tiny handful of Crabs and Highlanders, but the Nightstar. just. doesn't. There are tons of other mechs that could be introduced to this game, like the Charger, Javelin, Whitworth, Hermes II, Hatamotos, so on and forth, but this one was chosen not for it's attention to the lore, but because some guy saw the picture and thought it would be the next most beastly design that even with negative quirks out the ******** it would be an immediate first choice for everyone on Tier 1 because you could send huge direct-fire alphas downrange with minimal exposure. That just reeks of power-creep and would be the next one mech that everyone's expected to have in their drop bays.

There are a number of other, rare machines that would be better suited to being introduced in this game. The Marauder II, the Devastator, the Crockett... but the Nightstar is an absolutely ridiculous request for something game-disbalancingly powerful coupled with something lore-breakingly unlikely jealously guarded by a faction that isn't even playable.

If it's just one more thing to make players shove even more mechs into the "Low tier" category, it doesn't need to be introduced. If only one thing is good, nothing else serves a purpose. If everything is bad, then everything is equally good, and we've got the potential for a level, varied playing field.

#397 FLG 01

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 07:50 AM

View Postice trey, on 05 June 2016 - 06:09 AM, said:

If it's just one more thing to make players shove even more mechs into the "Low tier" category, it doesn't need to be introduced.


Every new Mech which is halfway decent will do that, which is why singling out the Nightstar is still unfair. And introducing new Mechs for the sake of not being better than currenty underperforming Mechs solves no balance problem at all.

Of course I cannot speak for TheArisen or other fans of the design, I can only say I liked the Mech ever since TRO:3058, which was more than 20 years ago (well, a little later in my country, but still almost 20 years). I did not have a PC back then, much less MWO. And I am an old-school ComStar fan.

Nonetheless I would also prefer other Mechs to the Nightstar, especially the Ost-Series, but I refuse to reject a new Mech just because it could potentially perform well enough in MWO.


View Postice trey, on 05 June 2016 - 06:09 AM, said:

[...] the Crockett... but the Nightstar is an absolutely ridiculous request for something game-disbalancingly powerful coupled with something lore-breakingly unlikely jealously guarded by a faction that isn't even playable.


Uhm, you do realize that in 3052 the only Crocketts in the IS were used by ComStar? The TRO:3039 mentions its extinction outside of ComStar, hence it was not included in that book.

Edited by FLG 01, 05 June 2016 - 07:56 AM.


#398 TheArisen

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 10:27 AM

View Postice trey, on 05 June 2016 - 06:09 AM, said:




My point has nothing to do with being against new mechs, and totally has to do with power creep. Too many people are going onto Sarna to scour for something that looks like it would be the next best thing for the meta. Like you said, it wouldn't need quirks... that's because the OP clearly states that this is about having another 95 ton mech with cockpit height or higher hardpoints, but it's also a super-obscure mech in the time period. There are still factories churning out a tiny handful of Crabs and Highlanders, but the Nightstar. just. doesn't. There are tons of other mechs that could be introduced to this game, like the Charger, Javelin, Whitworth, Hermes II, Hatamotos, so on and forth, but this one was chosen not for it's attention to the lore, but because some guy saw the picture and thought it would be the next most beastly design that even with negative quirks out the ******** it would be an immediate first choice for everyone on Tier 1 because you could send huge direct-fire alphas downrange with minimal exposure. That just reeks of power-creep and would be the next one mech that everyone's expected to have in their drop bays.

There are a number of other, rare machines that would be better suited to being introduced in this game. The Marauder II, the Devastator, the Crockett... but the Nightstar is an absolutely ridiculous request for something game-disbalancingly powerful coupled with something lore-breakingly unlikely jealously guarded by a faction that isn't even playable.

If it's just one more thing to make players shove even more mechs into the "Low tier" category, it doesn't need to be introduced. If only one thing is good, nothing else serves a purpose. If everything is bad, then everything is equally good, and we've got the potential for a level, varied playing field.


Just because it has a lot going for it doesn't mean it'd be OP or obsolete every other mech in the game. No this isn't about having an uber op mech, I was merely introducing it, talking about it's strengths & generally drumming up interest.

I don't see why it matters where interest for a mech comes from but to satisfy you; it's a popular mech in TT because of dual gauss.

#399 ice trey

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 01:26 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 05 June 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

Uhm, you do realize that in 3052 the only Crocketts in the IS were used by ComStar? The TRO:3039 mentions its extinction outside of ComStar, hence it was not included in that book.

That's 'cause they called it the "Katana". Effectively the same design.

It's like distinguishing the Dragon and Grand Dragon as separate.

As for the "Slightly better", I wholly disagree. That's understating the degree at which the 'mech would perform in the game. As for the rest of the mechs being "underperforming" most players chasing the Meta ignore more than half of the chassis available in this game, but the "Average" is what I'd push for. Putting more of the mechs in the "Tier 5 unusable garbage" lists doesn't serve this game well at all.

As a Comstar player, or as a late clan invasion player in the FedCom, it'd be fine to have a Nightstar, for sure... but with Comstar unplayable now, and with the FedCom produced ones far down the timeline, even from a lore perspective, it doesn't make sense to include it.

I will, however, give a resounding thumbs-up to your wishes for the Ost-series to be brought into the game. They're not power-gamey, they're definitely era-appropriate, and they fill roles that canon designs don't (Though meta ones might).

View PostTheArisen, on 05 June 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

I don't see why it matters where interest for a mech comes from but to satisfy you; it's a popular mech in TT because of dual gauss.

It's also a magnet for munchkin power-gamers who love to turn Battletech into Turret-tech. Being able to sit in a bunch of trees a map away and fire two head-shattering gauss rounds every turn, plus a PPC, without ever worrying about heat. The one thing is has going for it to keep it balanced in Tabletop is that it's prohibitively expensive in terms of BV at nearly 2400, so taking one, especially with a tweaked pilot, means one of your other units is gimped or not there at all.

Here, we don't have Battle Value. It's like the nightmare days of "You can have this Atlas, I'll take a Dire Wolf. Fair Match." What we didn't have was how the very shape of the mechs' artwork played a role in the game. In the event that a T1 player would be just as likely to want to use a Nightstar as a Highlander, then I won't care from a video game perspective. Balance means variation, but the way things stand, the Nightstar would just tip the scales even further. I want to see the power-gap between all the different mechs reduced dramatically. The Nightstar would only serve to expand it.
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Edited by ice trey, 05 June 2016 - 01:28 PM.


#400 TheArisen

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 01:49 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 05 June 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:


Good idea!

But I may take the liberty to recommend another word. Ultio would be a nice choice; think of Mars's famous epithet: Ultor (Avenger) (Augustus decided the temple in the center of the Augustus Forum to Mars Ultor, honouring his vengeance on the assassins of Caesar).
http://www.perseus.t...=ultor-contents
http://www.perseus.t...%C4%ADo#lexicon

Thus I think Ultor would be a good name for the Mech; Nightstar, the Avenger... Posted Image






You could get a bunch of them together & you could say "Avengers! Assemble!" Haha





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