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Why Do Clans Get 90% Scouting Wins On Every Planet ?


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#1 Count Zero 74

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:44 PM

Happened every attack Phase so far, on every Planet we could attack or defend aggainst Clans they had 90% scouting wins after a dew hours. So I asked myself why is it ?

Looks to me all Clan players are highly skilled tacticall geniusses with lightning quick reflexes, no other explanation possible.

Player numbers are pretty even, Clan Mechs are crap, IS has overquirked monster machines.

Seems like their breeding program worked guys, nothing we can do against so much skill, time to pack up and go home.

cu

#2 KinLuu

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:59 PM

It is simple, really.

Clan easily wins all PUG matchs, because IS PUGs simply are terribad and bring terribad mechs and/or builds to the scouting queue, while clan PUGs have learned rather quickly, that everything but SPLas+ASRM6 Stormcrows, SRM4 Jenner IICs and SPLas Cheetas leads to certain defeat.

While PUGing in the IS unit queue, I saw people bring LRM5 Griffin 2Ns, Cicadas, Locusts, Commandoes, Vindicators, Trebuchets... It did not go well.

I will only go into the scout queue, if I have three other NS guys with me. If not, I rather play normal queue.

#3 Count Zero 74

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:05 AM

My point exactly, Clan players are just so much smarter and better than us. Can we have a surrender button pls PGI ?

Call it a draw, let them have Terra and all go home ?

Btw, what I always wanted to know: Is there some kind of test u have to take before u can join the Clans?
Cause your average Joe McClanPug is like a 1 man army but its IS counterpart behaves like a lump of goo.

Don't know how I could stand it here for so long, playing together with all those IS noobs.

Edited by Count Zero 74, 21 April 2016 - 12:09 AM.


#4 hybrid black

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:06 AM

View PostCount Zero 74, on 20 April 2016 - 11:44 PM, said:

Happened every attack Phase so far, on every Planet we could attack or defend aggainst Clans they had 90% scouting wins after a dew hours. So I asked myself why is it ?

Looks to me all Clan players are highly skilled tacticall geniusses with lightning quick reflexes, no other explanation possible.

Player numbers are pretty even, Clan Mechs are crap, IS has overquirked monster machines.

Seems like their breeding program worked guys, nothing we can do against so much skill, time to pack up and go home.

cu



Well it has only happend to steiner maybe it's you guys

#5 Sniper09121986

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:13 AM

Ha Ha Ha! I like the sound of that. I am a casual player and Clan loyalist (go figure), and I rarely put up some outstanding performance, but I can give you a hint on strategy. Do not go to sector clusterfest straight away, just keep dropping into scout queue until you are the 90%. Simple as that. The unit groups in their queue most likely have their sector stuff going on in large groups, and they need reinforcements provided to them or at least cut off from the enemy. I ran through 9 of my probation matches on Csesztreg in a little over an hour this way, and even had Long Tom actually pick up his phone for a few minutes. If people are clamoring over Long Tom, somebody has not been doing their job. Can get boring, yes, but it does get the job done.

#6 KinLuu

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:14 AM

Clan players are not smarter, they just have far less mechs to choose from.

Every single semi-self aware clan player will own at least one SCR or ACH or JR7-IIC. Or hell, at least a NVA.

Not every IS player will own a HBK-4SP or a GFR-3M/2N. So they will bring what they have.

#7 Count Zero 74

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:18 AM

View Posthybrid black, on 21 April 2016 - 12:06 AM, said:

Well it has only happend to steiner maybe it's you guys


No it didn't, Wolves had the FRR planet at 90%+ too last attack phase, think it was Czestreg or something. the Wolves for gods sake !!!

Only Clan that didn't manage it was the smoke Jags, looks like there's some kind of flaw in their genetic material

#8 Sniper09121986

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:19 AM

View PostKinLuu, on 21 April 2016 - 12:14 AM, said:

Clan players are not smarter, they just have far less mechs to choose from.

Every single semi-self aware clan player will own at least one SCR or ACH or JR7-IIC. Or hell, at least a NVA.

Not every IS player will own a HBK-4SP or a GFR-3M/2N. So they will bring what they have.


True that, which is why I advocate for advancing the timeline and tech level. The IS gets the No-Skill six-pack and everybody gets more viable mechs and weapons that might make a lot of existing mechs more viable. Everybody wins!

#9 Zomfear

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:21 AM

I am going to say clan doesn't always win, I am more than 65% 35% against clan..in 4v4.....and I pug. If I get good pugs we win....if I can get the top 11 on the freelancers we will win...even if I have 2 of them.

Edited by Zomfear, 21 April 2016 - 12:22 AM.


#10 Count Zero 74

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:22 AM

View PostSniper09121986, on 21 April 2016 - 12:13 AM, said:

Ha Ha Ha! I like the sound of that. I am a casual player and Clan loyalist (go figure), and I rarely put up some outstanding performance, but I can give you a hint on strategy. Do not go to sector clusterfest straight away, just keep dropping into scout queue until you are the 90%. Simple as that.


As I said before, I know that u Clanners are all tactial geniusses and us IS players have no Idea what we are doing.

Edited by Count Zero 74, 21 April 2016 - 12:23 AM.


#11 IsaAurinkoinen

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:23 AM

Pugs on IS side has bigger change to choose unoptimal mech for game mode.

#12 Carl Vickers

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:28 AM

View PostCount Zero 74, on 21 April 2016 - 12:05 AM, said:

My point exactly, Clan players are just so much smarter and better than us. Can we have a surrender button pls PGI ?

Call it a draw, let them have Terra and all go home ?

Btw, what I always wanted to know: Is there some kind of test u have to take before u can join the Clans?
Cause your average Joe McClanPug is like a 1 man army but its IS counterpart behaves like a lump of goo.

Don't know how I could stand it here for so long, playing together with all those IS noobs.


Oh boy do you overstate things. Ive played both sides and they are just as bad as each other when it comes to pugs. I just saw a kitfox in a scout mission, nuff said.

#13 Aresye

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:33 AM

Currently pretty much all the super large organized FW units are IS, so they're doing a lot of the invasion mode.

The Clan loyalist units are not at the skill levels to repel groups like MS, NS, 228, and KCom in invasion, so many of those loyalist units are likely playing scout missions as well. At least that's my theory, given most of the defense games for invasion I've been put on teams of pugs, and almost no units are attacking.

So in other words:
Large IS Groups - Attacking in invasion mode.
Clan Pugs - Defending in invasion mode.
Large Clan Groups - Attacking in scout mode.
IS Pugs - Defending in scout mode.

Obviously many units do both, but that's my theory. We had three 4-man teams for scouting missions in SJR last night.

#14 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:44 AM

Slice of life here - CJF Clan pugs can almost exclusively only do scouting because no invasion matches are happening. Perhaps that is the reason why CJF has so good results in scouting? It is literally the only thing puggies can do.

#15 C E Dwyer

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:45 AM

Only played one scouting game, in a pug
We had three Griffin 2N's and a Cent
They had a laser storm crow and 3 Arctic cheaters.
Didn't see any LRM's we won the round, but the clans got 11 scouting points to our 7 .

I see the issue as this

Clans have two obvious mechs to chose, clan players will defend this by saying they are the only worthwhile ones, but the bottom line is that there is no point in taking a light that is not an Arctic Cheater ecm fast with so visual needed, with no big streak boat to worry about.


Storm Crow fastest 55 toner in the game and at top weight limit laser build srm build or most likely in pug play unit or not streak boat.

Is while there are bound to be some fools taking in bad builds you have a choice of a non ecm firestarter, which in pug play and in team play is a good light, no arguing that, but against a streak boat in the hands of an average player, not going to stand much chance, so people take mediums and even good mediums can't keep up with the arctic cheaters unless they are piloted badly.

The reason is clear that the clans in the hands of average players have better mechs, streak crows fighting top flight players lose but not in the hands of the average joe.

Once the limit was set at 55 tons it really was a fore gone conclusion. best light for this kind of work (ecm for scouting far more important than big alpha's) and a very fast medium that can boat streaks for anti light work in a plus 100 kph chasis

Had the limit been set at 35, 40 or 45 it would have provided us with a much better game, as even the thought of fighting streak crows is enough to put a lot of people off playing light mechs, and limits the dumb lrm chasis.

Anyway agree or disagree with what I've said.

My prediction next patch day they lower the tonnage to 50 for either both sides or clan, then the scouting will be reduced to Arctic Cheaters V Fire Starters with the odd Blackjack or Shadow Cat thrown in

Edited by Cathy, 21 April 2016 - 12:53 AM.


#16 MischiefSC

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:51 AM

View PostAresye, on 21 April 2016 - 12:33 AM, said:

Currently pretty much all the super large organized FW units are IS, so they're doing a lot of the invasion mode.

The Clan loyalist units are not at the skill levels to repel groups like MS, NS, 228, and KCom in invasion, so many of those loyalist units are likely playing scout missions as well. At least that's my theory, given most of the defense games for invasion I've been put on teams of pugs, and almost no units are attacking.

So in other words:
Large IS Groups - Attacking in invasion mode.
Clan Pugs - Defending in invasion mode.
Large Clan Groups - Attacking in scout mode.
IS Pugs - Defending in scout mode.

Obviously many units do both, but that's my theory. We had three 4-man teams for scouting missions in SJR last night.


It's the pug matches. I tried a few pug matches on the Clan border.

One had 2 guys in locusts literally face-charge streak crows.

In the other the Vindi ran off alone and got ganked by all 4, of the remaining three I was in a 2N, the other two were Cicada 3Fs - you know, the loyalty one. The terribad one. One had 3 ERLLs he went to brawl the ACH with and the other tried to circle with his 4 MLs as the 2 Crows and Jenner 2C approached them.

The Clanners were bad too. I mean stupid bad. One guy walks up, barfs his SSRMs at me and shuts down, overheated. I killed him and then back cored the 2C that had also just stopped to shoot like a turret at the cicadas. That or perhaps he thought his SRMs were fireworks and was just spraying them off for effect.

It was like watching disabled children playing wiffle ball. However streaks and inherent superiority of Streaks + CERML and a 6xSPL ACH was more than enough to carry it.

I'm pretty sure neither Scrow had BAP - the ACH had to counter my ECM. I'm pretty confident that only the ACH pilot and myself were the only people in that match who would have been out of place in a T5 pug match involving only T5 players and some disconnects.

However the simple inherent superiority of the Scrow, Jenner and ACH were enough to carry over the variety of jaw-droppingly bad IS builds.

Sure, good units are there on both sides doing their thing - what's flipping matches though is the terribad vs terribad matches being hugely lop-sided. This isn't saying there's a balance issue with the Clan mechs any more than LRMs are OP because bads stand in the open and get rained on. However mech availability is a big issue and it's taking a while for the IS terribads to get what mediums to bring beaten into them. Most IS pilots know BK = Good, LPL = Good, BJ = Good. That's literally enough to carry them in Invasion against Clan pilots with their LB5x + 2 SPL + LRM 20 + Streak 4 TBR (saw that last week).

Good IS mediums are uncommon, good IS medium builds are a bit more complex to make and more expensive (XLs) and you can play QP as IS and never have a reason to take a medium where as Clanners are likely to buy the Scrow to grind cbills to make money for their TBRs.

Edited by MischiefSC, 21 April 2016 - 12:53 AM.


#17 Dee Eight

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:52 AM

Its a question of automatic hitting firepower... multiple streak sixs which merely need locks, not actually being aimed at the mech when fired...six at a time on a crow...times 4 crows... and the total abandonment of the concept of scouting, even when the clan player is the one supposed to be gathering intel. Instead its a 4x4 skirmish till the I.S. team is dead and only then does scouting occur. This has led to lots of I.S. players simply abandoning scouting altogether, and then the clan teams get ghost drops and perfect 20 intel pickups. I myself have completely abandoned bothering with worlds where its I.S. vs a clan. I have no interest in wasting my time nor any interest in MWO's make believe version of the invasion lore from 26 years ago.

Edited by Dee Eight, 21 April 2016 - 01:01 AM.


#18 Danjo San

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:53 AM

View PostCount Zero 74, on 20 April 2016 - 11:44 PM, said:

Happened every attack Phase so far, on every Planet we could attack or defend aggainst Clans they had 90% scouting wins after a dew hours. So I asked myself why is it ?

Looks to me all Clan players are highly skilled tacticall geniusses with lightning quick reflexes, no other explanation possible.

Player numbers are pretty even, Clan Mechs are crap, IS has overquirked monster machines.

Seems like their breeding program worked guys, nothing we can do against so much skill, time to pack up and go home.

cu

Lets initiate a Split Queue. prevent the Clans from dropping against the IS

#19 B L O O D W I T C H

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 01:01 AM

View PostKinLuu, on 20 April 2016 - 11:59 PM, said:

It is simple, really.

Clan easily wins all PUG matchs, because IS PUGs simply are terribad and bring terribad mechs


You do not know what's happening in the T6 underhive (a.k.a. freelancing queue). I dare you, come take a look you will not believe it otherwise.

#20 Albino Boo

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 01:23 AM

Small but rather important point the clans dont always win the scouting battle. Kurtia pushed Ghost Bear to 75% advantage for days now. Having pugged the problem is the same as normal, IS with bad builds coming up against cookie cutters. The clan mechs are not inherently superior it just that its easier to optimise clan mechs. Bung on the omnipods that you want for mounts, add weapons, ammo and heatsinks. The IS mechs you have to fiddle around with the choice of XL engines, endo steel and Ferro-Fibrous armor to get the optimum build. Basically its harder to get a fast 55 tonner with decent firepower on the IS side than the clan side.

Edited by Albino Boo, 21 April 2016 - 01:25 AM.






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