38 replies to this topic

[knight-of-ni]

Yeah, you don't need a meta mech. Bring what you do well in. Note, however, that mech is probably not your lrm Raven (waits for screenshots of 1000 damage match from the one ace lrm raven pilot).

Of course, that is a little bit of chicken-before-the-egg. After all, you have to experiment a little just to find out what you do well in, so strike a balance.

One will still see quite a bit of Larry, Moe, and Curly tactics in Tier 3, much less so above that.

Overall, don't worry about your tier or what tier the other guys are in.

[Alreadythere]

Sister RAbbi, on 24 April 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

Just take this one piece of advice, if nothing else:

Play the game. Looking at your PSR, fretting over your stats, preserving a high KDR? That's not part of the game. Getting in a mech, dropping into matches, wrecking faces? THAT is the game. PLAY THE GAME. Your PSR will come along, whether you're watching it or not, and watching it just distracts you from actually PLAYING THE GAME.

Take this advice, it's too true.

I've hit Tier 3 the first time around two months ago. The first week or two of playing I was concentrating so hard on unsuccessfully staying in T3 that the game stopped being fun.
At some point I decided to stop caring. I didn't get better right away, I still bounced between T4 and T3 a lot. Only in the last two weeks I've finally stabilized in T3 by just keeping playing the game.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Alreadythere, on 25 April 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

Take this advice, it's too true.

I've hit Tier 3 the first time around two months ago. The first week or two of playing I was concentrating so hard on unsuccessfully staying in T3 that the game stopped being fun.
At some point I decided to stop caring. I didn't get better right away, I still bounced between T4 and T3 a lot. Only in the last two weeks I've finally stabilized in T3 by just keeping playing the game.

IMHO the problem many people have with staying in T3 once they've reached it is having bad habits. Or rather low tier habits. There are moves, builds and strategies that work well against inexperienced and weekend players, but doesn't work against experienced ones, usually because those 'tricks' rely on the enemy not reacting fast enough, playing overly defensively or not having situational awareness.
For example, this build helped me skyrocket out of T4:
Noobferret
At tier 4 it worked wonders. All I had to do is use that 140+ speed to jump on a flank, alpha somebody in the side while sidestepping, then back up to cover when they started to notice me. Than wait a bit to make them forget me or change position, rinse and repeat. 400+ dmg every time.

At higher tiers however, this same build and strategy proved to be very bad. All the "magic" was based on the enemy having bad aim, bad situational awareness and bad responsiveness. Being a predictable target coupled with a very long burn of clan meds turned me into a target practice. I might have pulled off one alpha, maybe two, but later the enemy was ready for a flanking IFR and prepared to shoot off my side torso (what was easy since I was sidestepping in straight line to maintain beam on the enemy). Enemy lights also began to be fond of jumping me as they knew those med lasers are a bad weapon against them (actually, they're in general a bad weapon for lighter mechs as they require too much facetime a light chassis can have). I had to drop med lasers for med or small pulses (shorter beam duration=shorter facetime), rework my movement pattern to become less predictable and remember to switch targets and flanks I jump out to stay anyhow effective.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 25 April 2016 - 11:50 AM.

[Alreadythere]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 25 April 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

IMHO the problem many people have with staying in T3 once they've reached it is having bad habits. Or rather low tier habits. There are moves, builds and strategies that work well against inexperienced and weekend players, but doesn't work against experienced ones, usually because those 'tricks' rely on the enemy not reacting fast enough, playing overly defensively or not having situational awareness.

Yes, that's definitely a large part of it. Same for me, I didn't roll damage enough, I stayed out of cover too long, and suddenly there are players taking those openings on a regular basis. Ended with me dead in a short time fairly regulary.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

If i recall correctly, i bashed through t3 with a stock adder prime and a flamer hunchy. Drunk, most of the time.
Don't pay to much attention to the tier system.
You'll get to tier 2 even tier 1 if you just keep playing.
Other pilots might be forever tier 3/4 or even tier 5, simply because they honed their skills in privat / FP matches. Skill based, they are on pair with tier 1 maxed out pilots.

From my experience there is only a small skill gab through out the majority of tiers 1-3 players.

Edited by LOADED, 25 April 2016 - 12:46 PM.

[Orville Righteous]

StumbleBee, on 23 April 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

I've heard horror stories of how much harder play becomes at Tier 3. Anyone want to offer reassurance or horror stories?

I just made Tier 3 myself and I've only had a few PUG matches, but I've found it to be much more difficult than Tier 5 and 4. I have yet to break 300 damage in a match. I knew I was in trouble when I had Sean Lang in one of my early Tier 3 matches.

For the opposition, targets don't seem to stand out in the open very long. I'm getting more negative exchanges (they shoot me, but I'm too slow to hit them). I don't torso twist nearly enough and the red team seems to expose that flaw in my game much quicker. If I'm out of position, I die quicker than before.

My teammates use comm more frequently. Opposing UAVs don't seem to last long. They definitely call you out if you're doing something wrong (not with the main group for example).

I'm hoping I can adjust my game enough to feel like I can contribute to the team at this level, or just get more games with people my level.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Orville Righteous, on 25 April 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

I just made Tier 3 myself and I've only had a few PUG matches, but I've found it to be much more difficult than Tier 5 and 4. I have yet to break 300 damage in a match. I knew I was in trouble when I had Sean Lang in one of my early Tier 3 matches.

For the opposition, targets don't seem to stand out in the open very long. I'm getting more negative exchanges (they shoot me, but I'm too slow to hit them). I don't torso twist nearly enough and the red team seems to expose that flaw in my game much quicker. If I'm out of position, I die quicker than before.

My teammates use comm more frequently. Opposing UAVs don't seem to last long. They definitely call you out if you're doing something wrong (not with the main group for example).

I'm hoping I can adjust my game enough to feel like I can contribute to the team at this level, or just get more games with people my level.

A LOT OF THIS.

So again, let me beat the dead horse. I went away for 16 months, BEFORE PSR was a thing (I think we were on some variation of Elo then, and no one knew his/her score). BEFORE the Clan invasion. BEFORE CW Phase 1. Project Phoenix didn't have the dust settling on it yet. We were still getting used to 12v12, instead of 8v8.

I came back, and in short order we changed to PSR, and after that we started getting to SEE our PSR. There had been THREE (3!!) waves of Clan omnimechs, and there was a SECOND IS Resistance pack on the way, and the Clan Origins IIC collection was announced. CW was in Phase 2. And I was, I shortly learned, a Tier 5 scrublord.

Still kinda am, just have a fancy-shmancy 3 under my stuff now.

That first bit to climb up and out of Tier 5? Wasn't bad at all. As far as the game was concerned, I was a newbie but just not worthy of that newbie seeding buff to PSR movement. STILL worked through T5 pretty quickly.

Tier 4 took a while, but it wasn't BAD. Gained 3-5% per night, overall, playing 3-8 matches a night (and sometimes foregoing it altogether for CW with the teammates).

Tier 3 has been much SLOWER. I'm getting there, of course. And having had some really solid mechs to play lately has helped a lot. Being able to throw down a + or ^ in a loss is pretty cool, especially when you look back at the struggle you had BEFORE and see how much you've come along since then. And that's a bit more common nowadays than it was in the T5/underhive days.

And when you notice that, you notice that what's changed isn't just your PSR tier. It's YOU. You make better decisions. You aim better. You remember to twist, to shield, to automatically assume you're going to take return fire and not just stand in the open where you just poked from. You save a little bit of that JJ fuel to soften your landing, so you don't unnecessarily damage your own legs. You frontload more armor, confident that you're not going to show the enemy your back. And so on.

What changed getting into T3 from T4? YOU did. And it was a net improvement, BTW. And now that you're IN T3? Well, this is no time to slack off. I'd argue, instead, that the learning curve just got even steeper, and you've got to get even BETTER at all the things. This is where, if nothing else, POSITIONING is the thing that will get you killed if you screw up, and will get you the KMDDs if you do it right. Here, everyone has some degree of skill at twisting/spreading, poking effectively, aiming to isolate components, and all that. Tier 3 is where we learn that it's not enough if you're out of position.

And there's ALL sorts of info out there on better positioning.

I'll leave us with a quote from my spirit animal, Tallahassee:

"Time to nut up or shut up."

[Morggo]

This. ^^ Definitely agree with Sister R.

My quick addition...
- Yes, I posted the exact same question a few months ago when I popped into T3 and I was very nervous and got the same answers and all was accurate as it is here now.
- Yes, there is definitely a step up as many have described.
- No, it isn't a death sentence.
- Yes, you will struggle more as you adjust, but you will adjust.
- No, you don't have to shift to all Meta (this was my worst fear actually)
- Yes, you will fall back to T4 a few times, but you'll find it's short and you'll get back to T3 fast
- No, your xp/psr bar will most definitely not progress anywhere near as fast as T5- T4

Basically, I'll leave the advice that was given to me in my "am I gunna die" post back then... (can't recall who said it, but I liked it)
"Congrats and welcome to T3! Time to put on your big boy pants and see if the dance steps you used to get here still
work, or you need to learn new ones."

Edited by Morggo, 26 April 2016 - 05:34 AM.

[Digital_Angel]

Morggo, on 26 April 2016 - 05:34 AM, said:

This. ^^ Definitely agree with Sister R.

My quick addition...
- Yes, I posted the exact same question a few months ago when I popped into T3 and I was very nervous and got the same answers and all was accurate as it is here now.
- Yes, there is definitely a step up as many have described.
- No, it isn't a death sentence.
- Yes, you will struggle more as you adjust, but you will adjust.
- No, you don't have to shift to all Meta (this was my worst fear actually)
- Yes, you will fall back to T4 a few times, but you'll find it's short and you'll get back to T3 fast
- No, your xp/psr bar will most definitely not progress anywhere near as fast as T5- T4

Basically, I'll leave the advice that was given to me in my "am I gunna die" post back then... (can't recall who said it, but I liked it)
"Congrats and welcome to T3! Time to put on your big boy pants and see if the dance steps you used to get here still
work, or you need to learn new ones."

Yep, I remember Morggo first coming in the game, and he reached T3 before I did (or at least before I quit bouncing in and out of it anytime i picked up a new chassis).

BTW Morggo, we still haven't done that Cicada party, although my Crabs see more action than my Cicadas anymore.

[Morggo]

LadyDanams, on 26 April 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

*snip*BTW Morggo, we still haven't done that Cicada party, although my Crabs see more action than my Cicadas anymore.

I know! Every time I see you on I recall that... then I get performance anxiety that I'll die embarrassingly with 50 damage


Okay... I just finished mastering my Cicadas and Crabs so they are as ready as they'll get. Perhaps if you're around this weekend...

Me and the mates usually do Drunken Drop Friday till wayyyyyy to late, and I'm often on Saturday evenings.
Drop me a PM if we want to spin up the Bugs 'n Crabbies.... always interested to learn some new tricks from other like chassis pilots!

[Podex]

T3 is not too bad. Just learn to 'feel' what you team is doing and react accordingly. If someone starts calling targets and/or leading the team, follow along. Do what he says and if you lose, don't sweat it -- at least somebody stepped up and tried something other than milling around for 7 minutes. Be gracious and don't be "that guy" who has something to say about their teammates during every match. Cheer people on when you can (I have seen people totally rock when encouraged). Above all else, realize that you will not win them all and you will die a lot. Just pump as much into the enemy as you can before going down to help the next guy out.

T3 on up requires more teamwork, so be a team player.

[Morggo]

^^ This.

Especially the ability to recognize when a team is "forming" and coming together as Podex described. (eventually YOU may be the one jumping in and doing drop/target calls!)

Win or lose, it's a good feeling seeing your team pull together a bunch of randoms and make a go of it.

As for the positivity, totally agree. You will unfortunately still see and hear the usual comments like "great MM, thanks for the looser noobz on my team!" and other negative stuff. Ignore that, be better than them, and encourage your mates.

Take last night, was on a drop that turned from a "sure win" to our side suddenly getting stopped (they suddenly pushed their heavies through a flank and just mopped us). Next thing I knew it was two other guys and me against one of theirs but he was fresh, we were all tore up bad (I lost my right leg, R arm, and R ST by then) and one of us disco'd. Saw some negative comments in the chat window and I was about to shrug and say GG but couple guys got on Comms and started giving some support and even some details about the remaining enemy. Last two guys dropped, and you know what.. comms kept supporting me so, reinvigorated I drug my busted mech up the steps (was Viridan) carefully, found that pesky enemy MAD and managed to pop him. We won but I'll give the props to the guys cheering me on as that gave me the boost to saddle up and try one more time.

Moral of the story: Always be supportive and positive, it does make a difference in a match.

Edited by Morggo, 26 April 2016 - 10:48 AM.

[StumbleBee]

Thanks again for all the feedback. This community is amazing. My time back in Tier 4 was shorter than I'd anticipated, and so far Tier 3 has been exactly as described: lots of one-sided battles and some bewilderingly good players, but mostly not too different from what I saw before, including clueless Ramboing and failure to lock targets. (I survived one match only because an opponent failed to notice that the torsos of my XL Blackjack were all torn open and decided to go after my perfectly intact legs instead.) I've been shot by my own team a lot less, though, and many more players bring Seismic and Radar Dep. Overall I seem to be holding my own.

By the way, I'm not fixated on PSR per se. Unfortunately it's pretty much th only objective way I can determine whether I'm getting any better. Matches can flop between 800 damage with 3 KMDD and 100 damage with death inside two minutes, and on my own it's hard to tell what's just randomness and what's me.

[Digital_Angel]

StumbleBee, on 26 April 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

Thanks again for all the feedback. This community is amazing. ...

By the way, I'm not fixated on PSR per se. Unfortunately it's pretty much th only objective way I can determine whether I'm getting any better. Matches can flop between 800 damage with 3 KMDD and 100 damage with death inside two minutes, and on my own it's hard to tell what's just randomness and what's me.

Yes this community is great between the forums and the Twitch and YouTuber community.

We all have good games and bad.

Part of the problem with Tier 3 is that you can potentially be matched against any player in the game if the matchmaker is taking a while to put a match together since the matchmaker will potentially put you with players up to 2 tiers on either side of you. This means that on a slow day when not many people are on, you might be curb stomping T5 noobs 1 game and against serious competitive players the next. Still most of the time your opponents will be within 1 tier of you up or down, if not the same tier when there are plenty of people playing for the match maker to choose from.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

StumbleBee, on 26 April 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

Thanks again for all the feedback. This community is amazing. My time back in Tier 4 was shorter than I'd anticipated, and so far Tier 3 has been exactly as described: lots of one-sided battles and some bewilderingly good players, but mostly not too different from what I saw before, including clueless Ramboing and failure to lock targets. (I survived one match only because an opponent failed to notice that the torsos of my XL Blackjack were all torn open and decided to go after my perfectly intact legs instead.) I've been shot by my own team a lot less, though, and many more players bring Seismic and Radar Dep. Overall I seem to be holding my own.

By the way, I'm not fixated on PSR per se. Unfortunately it's pretty much th only objective way I can determine whether I'm getting any better. Matches can flop between 800 damage with 3 KMDD and 100 damage with death inside two minutes, and on my own it's hard to tell what's just randomness and what's me.

Stat keeping in this game has a long way to go. PSR is probably NOT the right way to measure progress as a player, though.

And since the Scouting 4v4 mode performances are now added into your stats on your profile, it's a little less meaningful. Assuming you're not Scouting, or that you're getting pretty consistent performances in Scouting and Quick Play, consider the following...

You have a list of stats broken down by mechs.
You have a total damage done, and matches played, and KDR, in each of those mechs, among other things.
You have a weapons stats page that gives you some insight on how many times fired, how much damage done, etc.

So, first thing to look at, if you're a numbers nut (I kinda am, just a little), is damage/match in each mech. Say, you'd need like 30-ish matches at least before you can draw any REAL conclusions from this, but consider which mechs net you the most DAMAGE in a match. Feel free to exclude, or at least modify for kills/match, any that are LRM boats, and any that you were playing mostly as you approached a new tier. The mechs in which you do the most damage/match, will generally also have higher KDRs, and are probably your top performers overall.

Now, consider the weapons stats. Take the number of times fired, divide that into the total damage done by them, and compare that to the listed damage/shot for that weapon. Which ones are most efficient?

Now, look for a way to use your most efficient weapons systems on your most successful mechs.

Wanna run something fun (QQ's Urbie Derby is this week, BTW)? Cool. In order to secure your progress, though, if that interests you, balance that with running your "personal meta-compliant" mechs. That is, the mechs that meet the above criteria of doing highest damage/match and running the weapons with which you have the highest ratio of damage/shot to listed damage (some of mine, mostly Gauss and MGs, are greater than 1:1, as I suspect is the case for many). Yeah. I just coined that term. PERSONAL META-COMPLIANT MECH. Copyright 2016, Clan Skunk Ape.

Anyhow, go have fun! the PSR should follow. If you want to be REALLY sure that it does, then run what demonstratedly works best for you, at least now and then. You'll be impressed how often you can go UP in PSR in a LOSS, when you're having a blast in a VERY non-meta-compliant mech, that just happens to be your PMC...

[Morggo]

/infringes on Sister R's copyright and steals "personal meta-compliant mech" I like that, good phrasing.

Yeah, I take at least a monthly copy of my stat's page and use it to track my progress in each mech and weapon and derive some other stats from them. If I think of it, I'll do it end of each week too but often forget. But even a monthly snapshot to compare your progress and trending is great. Also, I bet you'll be surprised by at least one Variant and one weapon... either that you thought you did poor in but was one of your better, or the opposite. I know I had a couple revelations when I started stat tracking spreadsheets on the side a few months ago.

[Anunknownlurker]

Have to admit, my enjoyment of MWO has diminished massively since I reached tier 2. I am only an average player who is paying the price for not actually sucking and having a winning percentage. I now regularly face high-quality tier 1 players who, quite simply, rip me a new one.

Can I improve my play? Possibly but it would only be by a small margin; I am in my middle years and my reaction time etc is no match for younger players, so I have pretty much reached a plateau where I am pretty consistently being out played even in mechs I have mastered and used to do well in. I am not a stats person but have noticed my K:D, average damage and exp have all fallen dramatically.

This game is slowly stopping being fun. Could I start an alt account? Of course, but I would lose the mechs I have worked hard on and the money I have happily spent supporting my hobby.

Not a clue what to do sadly...hey ho.

Edited by Jimmy DiGriz, 01 May 2016 - 05:50 AM.

[Jaguaar]

@Jimmy DiGriz - I am fairly new. (not a kid either) I have been back for a couple months now. I started playing when MWO first went public and approached it much like FPS (which was totally wrong), got frustrated and stopped playing. When I came back, my approach was different and after playing, finally "figured it out". Well, at least the understanding what the game is really about. It's not about singular player performance or even your total wins/losses. It's about team play. That's where the heart of MWO lies and you can't gauge your team play when you drop with PUGS and the way the tiers are set up now. If you really want to measure YOUR play, get with a Unit or friends and drop on a consistent basis. Of course, you're going to get rolled by higher level teams but that is all part of the game. Your W/L ratio really doesn't mean anything. Also, your age doesn't mean much if your a good TEAM player. Quick twitch only really means anything in Light mechs and even then positioning and experience mean more. (even then great players get rolled)

What I am getting at is that you should take a moment and truly look at how your approaching/thinking about MWO before getting too discouraged and quitting. Of course, even if you have take the time to figure the gameplay out and are still discouraged, MWO is just not for you.

Stop focusing so much about the winning part. Focus on you doing your part for the team. Providing support, forming up, moving together, focus firing on targets, calling out targets, etc... Enjoy the fact that you contributed to the team even when you lose a match... and then, rinse and repeat.. I think you will learn much faster with a different approach. I learned a ton doing what I stated and watching how other players play.

Good luck and I hope you figure out where you fit.

See you on the battlefield!!!!

[Anunknownlurker]

@Jaguaar - All I focus on is whether I am having fun, at the moment, I am not and this is almost wholly down to being executed, face-hugged, sniped and generally dismantled by, highly-skilled and competitive players.

I've been playing for over a year, and, as I mentioned, would consider myself an average pilot. If the tier-rating/PSR was fit for purpose, I would be neatly nestled into the middle of tier 3, just where I belong, instead of 1/4 through tier 2, where I don't. But it is simply a match-making algorithm based on wins and games played.

I mentioned win/loss, K:D and average exp/damage as a guide to how my performance has deteriorated as I have gone up in tier.

Whilst all your points are valid, they have little to do with why I am now (only now) finding MWO a less satisfying game than I did around 3 months ago.

Edited by Jimmy DiGriz, 01 May 2016 - 01:40 PM.