38 replies to this topic

[StumbleBee]

I've heard horror stories of how much harder play becomes at Tier 3. Anyone want to offer reassurance or horror stories?

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Well what is bad is not so much tier3 itself, but getting matched with tier 2 and 1.

Solo que is not going to be that different. Group matches will though.

[Hammerfinn]

Short answer:

Yes.

Long answer:

Tier 3 has a lot higher average quality of pilot, so you will be harcore punished for your mistakes in tier 3. When I'm levelling mechs, I almost always drop right out of tier 3 for a little while as I try to optimize the build through trial and error. It gets pretty rough when you realize that as a direwolf, unless you hide for a while and have good positioning, you WILL be the first mech dead.

It's not too bad, but it is a lot more punishing on mediocre pilots like me!

[TercieI]

Sometimes!

In 3-5 matches you're the bat. In 1-3, you're the ball. The good news is you're finally going to see how the best players play. And if you can learn from that, it's the best way to learn and improve.

[mailin]

Think about it this way, if you win more often than you lose, you are obviously getting better, so, you will move upwards through the tiers. Every time you get to a new tier you are being exposed to a higher level player overall, so you may die a lot initially, but you will eventually learn from your mistakes, then get to a new tier and learn from a new set of mistakes.

Or, as I like to say, lather, rinse, repeat. Enjoy!!

Edited by mailin, 23 April 2016 - 02:24 PM.

[Void Angel]

StumbleBee, on 23 April 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

I've heard horror stories of how much harder play becomes at Tier 3. Anyone want to offer reassurance or horror stories?

Nah. You're just going to be matched a little higher is all. Right now the matchmaker prefers to put you into your own tier, but will allow spreads of up to three total tiers. Thus, while as a Tier 4 player you were able to be matched with Tiers 5-3, now you might see Tiers 4-2 in your matches. The competition is a little steeper, as are your teammates - but you're not magically crossing a threshold into Hell. =)

PS: There are no tier brackets - e.g Tiers 4-5 and tiers 1-3. This is a complete myth fueled by speculation and poor reading skills. =)

[StumbleBee]

Thanks for the feedback. I rendered all of it moot, though, by grinding with Griffins, with which I apparently stink to the Periphery and back. I'll be in Tier 4 for a while longer.

[Fobhopper]

StumbleBee, on 23 April 2016 - 04:51 PM, said:

Thanks for the feedback. I rendered all of it moot, though, by grinding with Griffins, with which I apparently stink to the Periphery and back. I'll be in Tier 4 for a while longer.

Its not too difficult to get to tier 3, but its kind of a pain to stay in tier 3 (if you dont learn the game well), and its incredibly difficult to get into tier 2 if you like playing something other than meta-mechs. I have been in upper tier 3 for a very long time, partly because I still have a lot of mechs I need to grind out basic or elite with, and partially because I like to play with fun builds instead of meta builds. The meta says LRM's suck, and people say you should die a painful death if you even think about putting them on a mech (current meta is ALL ABOUT THEM LASERS), but goddamnit if it aint fun running 4 LRM15'S on a KGC and making the enemy fight in the rain. Or running an 9 SRM6 archer, because why the hell not.

The good thing about tier 3 is you get to play against people who are well versed in the game, and will punish you if you screw up. But the bad thing is that the pendulum swings back and you can get grouped up with a bunch of tier 4 and 5 scrubs who will shoot you in the back just as much as they will shoot the other team. The match maker will average out the players dropping into the match, so you can be grouped up with people anywhere from tier1 to tier5, Tier 3 is the hardest tier to get out of (if you plan on doing that) because of how varied the people you group up with.

[no one]

StumbleBee, on 23 April 2016 - 04:51 PM, said:

Thanks for the feedback. I rendered all of it moot, though, by grinding with Griffins, with which I apparently stink to the Periphery and back. I'll be in Tier 4 for a while longer.

Griffins are beautiful machines once you master them and pop in a big engine. Play-style and build mileage may vary but the ECM Griffin's a top notch IS medium brawler and flanker. It takes time to get used to any 'Mech, so don't count Griffins out yet.

Best advice I can give for tier 3 is - watch your team. You won't be able to get the players in a PUG to coordinate with each-other. Watch your team mates instead and react to them as your chosen role of support/flank/spotter/besieger/etc dictates. Supporting friendly movement is far more important than reacting to enemy movement.

Fobhopper, on 23 April 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

... The match maker will average out the players dropping into the match, so you can be grouped up with people anywhere from tier1 to tier5, Tier 3 is the hardest tier to get out of (if you plan on doing that) because of how varied the people you group up with.

qft.

The tier 3 matchmaker can be insanely fickle, and it makes the the path to higher or lower tiers fraught with tears. Some days you'll be on Team Stooges, some days you'll be on team Killdozer. Tier 3 is the best place for pure observation - you get to see examples of the best and the worst and you'll get kicked around in it so much you can feel like you're not making progress. You will though, so don't sweat it. Play 'Mechs you love and stagger those grinds with matches in your (insert hilarious machine-gun Urbie equivalent) for fun and/or profit.

Side note - As you raise your tier you'll start to make less money. Kills at higher tiers tend to be much cleaner - carefully placed shots can kill 'Mechs without racking up all that extra damage money. Take advantage of the savory unobservant meat while you still can.

[762 NATO]

The only way I am getting out of Tier 3 is driving an Oxide (not exactly GMan's build, I like more ammo) and with a solid team that can put together a 4 man group most any time. Starting Tier 3 is a steep learning curve, but you will get it! It just makes you better at placing your shots and sticking with the team. Best of luck in Puglandia!

[Tylerchu]

Fobhopper, on 23 April 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

Its not too difficult to get to tier 3, but its kind of a pain to stay in tier 3 (if you dont learn the game well), and its incredibly difficult to get into tier 2 if you like playing something other than meta-mechs. I have been in upper tier 3 for a very long time, partly because I still have a lot of mechs I need to grind out basic or elite with, and partially because I like to play with fun builds instead of meta builds. The meta says LRM's suck, and people say you should die a painful death if you even think about putting them on a mech (current meta is ALL ABOUT THEM LASERS), but goddamnit if it aint fun running 4 LRM15'S on a KGC and making the enemy fight in the rain. Or running an 9 SRM6 archer, because why the hell not.

What do you mean "LRMs suck"? Evidently you've never had your entire 12-man be pinned by four LRM assaults/heavies while the other eight come around and push you into the open where you then get LRM'd to death.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

StumbleBee, on 23 April 2016 - 04:51 PM, said:

Thanks for the feedback. I rendered all of it moot, though, by grinding with Griffins, with which I apparently stink to the Periphery and back. I'll be in Tier 4 for a while longer.

I took a long break a couple years ago, and whereas I left Griffins as mediocre mechs that could MAYBE play second fiddle to the Trebuchet for LRM medium niches, I came back to Griffins being SOLID brawlers. Helped, too, that they added an ECM variant.

Like ANY mech, they take some getting used to. They're tall & lanky, and thus kinda hard to miss. On the other hand, they twist and spread damage REALLY well, and having that dead left arm to shield with is just beautiful. But they are fearsome. Any of the Phoenix mediums (Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Wolverine) is good enough to continue moving up through Tier 3, but Griffin in probably the BEST choice of them for it.

As for the title and OP, I would say this: it took me relatively little time to get from Tier 5 to Tier 3. I spent less time in tiers 5 and 4 combined (and didn't have that initial seeding buff to my performance) than I have so far in Tier 3. It's a GRIND. And, outside of that hiatus, I've been at it since November of 2012. But I'm not what you'd call a 'skilled' player, and I simply can't put in the kind of effort that some players do to get better (GIT GUD LOL). Tier 3, in short, is gonna likely take FOREVER. MONTHS later, I'm maybe almost 3/4 of the way through, and made most of the progress from halfway to 3/4 in Crabs and Wolfhounds (both of which I ADORE and do relatively well in). And having recently added the Oxide to the stable, yeah, that helps.

Just take this one piece of advice, if nothing else:

Play the game. Looking at your PSR, fretting over your stats, preserving a high KDR? That's not part of the game. Getting in a mech, dropping into matches, wrecking faces? THAT is the game. PLAY THE GAME. Your PSR will come along, whether you're watching it or not, and watching it just distracts you from actually PLAYING THE GAME.

[Solarise03]

Tier 1 is worst lol

Tier 3 is all about making sure u got few mechs behind u when u push.

[TercieI]

Solarise03, on 24 April 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Tier 1 is worst lol

Tier 3 is all about making sure u got few mechs behind u when u push.

Tier 1 is the only place the game is fun once you get good at it.

[Solarise03]

wells the reason is when u are tier 3 u will tier 1 friends to help u, when u r tier 1 u will hv to carry =)

[Anunknownlurker]

Honestly? I haven't found very much difference as I have gone up in tier. I see just as much idiocy now I am tier 2 as before. I am in as many 12-0 wins/losses, I die in seconds or last the game. The only noticeable change is that I see more "names" but even that is pretty meaningless as even the best players can be skilling a new mech, testing a new build or just drunk!

Yes, once you reach tier 3 you will meet tier 1 players but remember, tier spread is +/-2 so you could just as easily be the highest tier player on your team and the same could be true of the other side.

PSR (tier rating) is NOT a skill indicator, it is simply a match making tool which measures your games played and won; play enough games, win >45% of them and don't suck will mean going up in tier. You cannot go down in tier on a win.

Best advice I can come up with is just play what you want to play, in the way you want to play it and remember, this is a game, it's meant to be a fun way to spend a few hours; the moment it becomes more than that, or stops being enjoyable, find something else to do

Peace

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Just because I'm tired of reading this argument all the time:

OP, don't believe that you got to use meta to get well in tier X. Especially in quick play. Actually, many, MANY best players rarely even go quick play, or only ocassionaly. Many of the best players enter TS and go into team or faction play as soon as they'll log into the game.

That 'you need to go meta' is just an excuse for people who feel they're better@meks than they're really are. In QP, you can run any not-terrible chassis effectively. Best builds are easier to run overall, of course, but they're not mandatory to do well.

To illustrate, my second most played mech is Trebuchet 7k. Out of 60 I own. Also, among about 55 mechs I bothered to master, only 2 are or were considered meta since I got here (Jagers and blackjacks). I'm trying to persuade myself into finally giving firestarters a chance, but that's not doing well.

EDIT: To clarify: I'm a casual. I know a lot of players much better than me. I don't train, just play. I build my own mechs, I don't sit on builds with a calculator. Still, T1 bar gonna be full soon.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 25 April 2016 - 12:30 AM.

[Anunknownlurker]

I've been killed by him ^ and I am almost certain I've taken him down once or twice. I think he knows what he's talking about

[TercieI]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 25 April 2016 - 12:14 AM, said:

Just because I'm tired of reading this argument all the time:

OP, don't believe that you got to use meta to get well in tier X. Especially in quick play. Actually, many, MANY best players rarely even go quick play, or only ocassionaly. Many of the best players enter TS and go into team or faction play as soon as they'll log into the game.

That 'you need to go meta' is just an excuse for people who feel they're better@meks than they're really are. In QP, you can run any not-terrible chassis effectively. Best builds are easier to run overall, of course, but they're not mandatory to do well.

To illustrate, my second most played mech is Trebuchet 7k. Out of 60 I own. Also, among about 55 mechs I bothered to master, only 2 are or were considered meta since I got here (Jagers and blackjacks). I'm trying to persuade myself into finally giving firestarters a chance, but that's not doing well.

EDIT: To clarify: I'm a casual. I know a lot of players much better than me. I don't train, just play. I build my own mechs, I don't sit on builds with a calculator. Still, T1 bar gonna be full soon.

Truth. I run all kinds of silly stuff in solo queue and do well.

[cleghorn6]

If you'll forgive me for quoting myself, I posted this a couple of weeks ago after making the same change. I'm a solo only casual player.

cleghorn6, on 11 April 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

So, I wanted to talk about the "graduation" to Tier 3. There have been a bunch of threads both here and elsewhere about how different/difficult/amazeballs/whatever Tier 3 is from 4 and 5 because apparently now you're dropping all the time against Tier 1 try-hards and it's super hard but the author is super skilled and it's not so difficult really if you're super awesome like them.

Well.

Firstly, let me say this. I play in what's known as "The Forgotten Time Zone". I've been dropping for a while with only the Oceanic servers selected (I'm pinging up around 500 to both EU and NA which is... more difficult than I'm prepared to put up with unless I have to) at a time when the world population is at its lowest. Very rarely do I wait even the 2 minutes required to open up the MM to beyond my own Tier, let alone the additional 2 minutes it would take to theoretically open it to the full +/-2 Tiers which would allow me to meet Tier 1 players in-game. So I don't know how these NA prime time-based players are finding themselves matched against both Tier 1 super l33ts AND Tier 5 window licking potatoes.

Anyway, Tier 3. Did the skill level go up? Yes. Noticeably. Which I consider to be a good thing. It's tiresome to be matched up with players in their first matches, still learning how to move AND shoot. Not because that's an inherently bad thing to be, but because my gameplay is beyond that level and needing to account for team-mates who can't figure out how to fire weapons in group 2 is... boring. I've found a much more receptive platform for tactical maneuvers like flanking, setting up cross-fire, using UAVs and so on.

Mistakes are punished far more harshly. If you accidentally wander out on front of an enemy team, it's unlikely that you'll survive and if you do the smoking remains of your 'mech are pretty much only good for wandering around giving away your allies position. This I consider to be a feature. For too long I have been relying on my ability to walk away from ridiculous mistakes, not only intact but still useful. It makes for lazy decision making.

Perhaps I'm an unusual case, or just not representative of the more vocal new entrants to the Tier 3 meat grinder. I've been playing for 3 years and while I've still got less than 10K matches under my belt, I know this game pretty well. I know the maps, I know the tactics. I can tell from where the initial engagement occurs on the map, probably how it's going to go. I know the 'mechs and builds, not as well as I should perhaps but better than someone who has just started. I guess what I'm saying is that I feel like moving up to Tier 3 is exactly what I wanted/expected from going up a Tier. I would expect that a new-ish player who got lucky (or who has some innate skill) and moves quickly into Tier 3 SHOULD get face-f*cked pretty hard for a while because they're skipped out on a bunch of skills which are necessary to play at a higher level. They need to learn quickly to survive. Is this just me reverse-justifying my own experience? Maybe. Difficult to tell objectively from here. Summing up though, I've enjoyed the move into Tier 3. I like the tactical depth and the higher skill level required, it's what I want from the game at the moment. Is the skill level higher? Almost certainly. Have I been on the pointy end of that skill jump? Absolutely just watch my videos. I spend a lot of time eating it, hard core. And that's a good thing. Without challenge, we cannot meaningfully improve.

EDIT: fixing wall of text quote

Edited by cleghorn6, 25 April 2016 - 07:58 AM.