19 replies to this topic

[SkavenDC]

So. I am reaching out to the community to acquire a little assistance.

I am interested in upgrading my graphics card, but it has been over 10 years since I have built my own system and I am not completely up on all the new tech. Just so everybody is on the same page, the act of upgrading the card is not an issue. Just don't want to waste money (even a restocking fee) on something that will not work.

So I currently run a hand-me-down HP Pavilion HPE h8-1160t running Windows 10. It has a i7-2600 @ 3.40GHz w/12GB RAM. The motherboard is a Pegatron 2AB5 which appears to be the problem. There are many threads on the internet about people trying to upgrade but not able to. The problem appears to be around the BIOS. The newer UEFI cards can not be used on this system and HP can not/will not upgrade the bios. I am forced to use legacy BIOS cards as no BIOS setting (secure boot, fast boot options) are available under this BIOS. It is the most recent BIOS available.

My current video card is a Radeon HP 6570 w/1GB GDDR3 memory. I was interesting in getting a GeForce GTX 750ti w/2GB GDDR5 memory. I currently run MWO with a mix of settings (all low except...enviroment-VH, shadows + object detail - med) that yields ~28-38fps @1280x960 full screen (yes...I have a 4:3 monitor that's of good size). Those frames may seem low to some, but it actually seems to run alright to me. Everything seems to run very fluid. I wanted to get a new monitor to run at 1080 and potentially run slightly higher FPS or maybe slightly higher settings. So, my questions.

1. Would upgrading my GPU (limitations aside) benefit me in anyway, or would my i7-2600 be my limiting factor?
2. I wanted to go with the EVGA card but it seems like that one will not work. UEFI only. I have read that the MSI 750ti card has a switch on it that can switch between UEFI and legacy BIOS. Is that true and if it is, is this a good card?
3. If the 750ti doesn't work, are there any older, legacy BIOS GPU's that would make a good upgrade without breaking the bank? Was looking to go ~$130.00.

Thank you for any input provided. I am not looking to upgrade my computer at all. If a newer mobo or new computer is the only option, then I will stick with what I have.

If there is any more system info required to give a better answer, I can try to supply it.

[PFC Carsten]

The i7-2600 should be just fine for MWO. 12 GiB of RAM is enough for this.

[Chimera_]

To my understanding, MWO's performance is more CPU bound than many other games. Upgrading your GPU would likely improve performance, but your CPU could still be a bit of a bottleneck.

Upgrading your GPU would absolutely give you a performance gain, but your I7 will ultimately be a limiting factor. If you use a 750TI at 1080p, just don't expect to run games at high. It's competent, and much better than your existing card, but still a relatively weak card by today's standards.

I don't know which cards have the specific legacy compatibility you're looking for, but a 750 TI would be a pretty good upgrade from your existing card.

Edited by Chimera11, 23 April 2016 - 02:22 PM.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

used 680GTX is a safe bet for a gpu if you can find one in good shape

its a bit faster than 960GTX and you should be able to find one for 100-150 dollars

PFC Carsten, on 23 April 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

The i7-2600 should be just fine for MWO. 12 GiB of RAM is enough for this.

true,im running a i7 920 and mwo runs just fine even with stock clocks

[Goose]

I upgraded 'cause 12-mans wrecked my i7-920/ GTX 680 combo …

[Flapdrol]

Strange issue.

Anyway, my gtx670 has a "bios" bios, but you can download an update that has uefi, if it is absolutely impossible to run a gpu with uefi I guess a used 670 / 680 or 7950 / 7970 is the max. You might need to upgrade the psu for those though. What psu do you have?

If it turns out you can run gpu's that have uefi it might be worth waiting a little bit, new gpu's are about to be released, and one of the amd models will be a lower end chip. These will be the first gpu's in years to have smaller and more efficient transistors, which should allow for ~2.5x faster gpu's.

Maybe it's worth waiting anyway, when the new gpu's launch the market may flood with used 670's, 680's 7950's and 7970's.

Edited by Flapdrol, 24 April 2016 - 12:35 AM.

[SkavenDC]

Goose, on 23 April 2016 - 07:35 PM, said:

I upgraded 'cause 12-mans wrecked my i7-920/ GTX 680 combo …

Just curious. How did 12-mans "wreck" your setup????

[SkavenDC]

Flapdrol, on 24 April 2016 - 12:35 AM, said:

Strange issue.

Indeed Initially everybody thought it was around the PCIe 2.0 slot itself not being fully backwards compliant, but after people actually called all the companies involved, it was narrowed down to the BIOS issue. Further resolved by the fact that older (legacy BIOS) PCIe 3.0 cards worked just fine.

Flapdrol, on 24 April 2016 - 12:35 AM, said:

You might need to upgrade the psu for those though. What psu do you have?

As of right now, there is a 300W in the computer, but I have a 650W with the proper connectors ready to go when that time comes. The 680 requires at least a 550W.

UEFI will not work at all, but I see the point in waiting a little bit. I think I have decided on the 680. If one comes up at a great price, I may just snag it.

Part of the reason I wanted to check with the community. The 680 would be a better option than the 750ti anyway regardless of the BIOS issue.

[sspfunk]

Scrap the 300W and put in the 650W.
Problem solved.
Go to Newegg's psu calculator:
http://images10.newe...tage-Calculator
and put in your specs
I put in your cpu gpu 1 hdd 1 dvd-rw 12GB RAM.
It says you need 437W to run what you got.

[Goose]

SkavenDC, on 24 April 2016 - 04:49 AM, said:

Just curious. How did 12-mans "wreck" your setup????

IIRC, even with Teh Twelve Threads sorted, I couldn't keep CA0 happy with 2.8GHz once there were that many units to render.

[BigBadVlad]

I have an an Asus Gtx 660 sitting around that i could let go for not much. Not sure what it's worth (going to guess off the cuff $50, maybe $40?).
https://www.asus.com...pDesk_Download/

i dont ever recall updating the cards bios so it could very likely be the older vbios. PM me if you are interested...
no idea how much of an upgrade this could be from your 6570...

ahhh looks like it should be a noticeable upgrade
http://www.tomshardw...archy,4388.html

Edited by BigBadVlad, 25 April 2016 - 07:41 PM.

[SkavenDC]

I'd like to thank everybody involved for the input. Thank you for the offer BBV, but I picked up a GTX 680 off eBay for a price I was willing to pay. Turns out that the card was flashed with the newer UEFI, but EVGA sent me the Legacy BIOS. Once I calmed down enough to realize that I just had to switch to on-board video to get into Windows with the new card in the system, it was a simple task.

So, now I am hitting 60 fps with increased settings. Haven't messed too much with it and I am still on the 4:3 monitor, so not at 1080 yet. Work in progress. I do have a smaller widescreen monitor I'll connect this weekend and mess around with it while I decide on which one to buy.

Again, thank you for the help.

[BigBadVlad]

Congrats! 680 should be decent for awhile longer...

[SkavenDC]

Another update.

Got a 1080P monitor (cheaper one, but so far I'm happy with it), made some changes in the Nvidia control panel and some performance modifications within Windows, and now I am hitting 100+fps on most maps. Maximum settings on everything possible within game on 1920x1080.

Glad I wound up asking. The GTX 680 was a great investment. I'm actually glad I couldn't get a GTX 750ti.

Thank you all again.

Couldn't be happier.

Edited by SkavenDC, 30 April 2016 - 06:15 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

Once I calmed down enough to realize that I just had to switch to on-board video to get into Windows with the new card in the system, it was a simple task.

That is the one really nice thing about having a CPU a built-in GPU, it allows you to access the computer and do things while working on getting the add-on GPU going.

[Rykiel]

I'm surprised people haven't mentioned this solution:

Get a good CPU cooler (like the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Plus/Evo); use it to replace your stock CPU cooler.
Overclock your CPU via BIOS to at least 3.5 (perferably 4.0 Ghz).

At your resolution, that will really help -- you are not really GPU limited on that low a resolution (1280x960), you are CPU limited (the CPU overclock will fix that). This is easily the cheapest and best fix for your problem.

Your buying a GTX 680 was not (strictly speaking) necessary, but it's a great way to ease into 1080p (which you now have) with a high framerate with a lot of eye candy turned up.

Edited by Rykiel, 04 May 2016 - 10:04 AM.

[Catamount]

He has a 2600, not a 2600k. His only option would be BCLK overclocking which is dangerous, difficult, and very limited.

http://www.overclock...erclocking-test

YMMV, but I certainly wouldn't try it. A BCLK change from 100 to 105, for instance, would bring him from 3.4ghz... to 3.57 (adjust for turbo, I think on a 2600 it's 3.6 max for all 4 cores, 3.8 single core). Hardly worth it for something that may well brick a board.

Edited by Catamount, 04 May 2016 - 01:29 PM.

[SkavenDC]

Catamount is correct. It's not a "k" processor. Overclocking, although doable, was not a route I was overly interesting in pursuing. The gains from overclocking a non-k processor was not worth it to me for the risk.

Although I was on a budget, spending a little money wasn't too much of an issue. I am ecstatic with the GTX680. Once I rolled the cards BIOS back to legacy, and changed some Windows setting (I had the issue where FPS would drop going into a match...the whole Alt-Tab problem...MWO internet search found the answers) the thing performs flawlessly. As said, I am at full 1080p, DX11, Very High everything, and run about 100 fps. Older maps may dip to around 70 which is no concern to me.

[Rykiel]

Thanks for the info (missed that it was a non-K edition). Might as well keep it on max turbo frequency then. From what I understand, a mild BCLK overclock (to 3.6) is hardly going to brick a board (even non-K), but since the CPU isn't a K, it's pretty much a moot point.

Side note: still don't understand why Sandy Bridge consumer/Xeons are still so expensive, even on EBay. The Westmere-EPs are so much cheaper ...

[Kravshera]

My current specs:

AMD FX 8320 3.5ghz (8 core), Overclocked to 4ghz.
16gb Ram
Nvidia 660 GTX (2gb ram DDR5) Memory bandwidth 179.2 GB/s Floating-point performance 1,896 GFLOPS


You have:
i7-2600, 3.4ghz (4 core, but 8 threads - hyperthreading).
12gb Ram
Radeon 6570 (1gb ram DDR3) MEMORY BANDWIDTH
28.8 GB/s (maximum) SINGLE PRECISION COMPUTE POWER 624 GFLOPs


I play MW:O in 1920x1080, all advanced settings on medium.
With some fan noise, i pull 45'ish fps.

Our CPU's and Ram are within comparable scope, but as you can see even my old and limping 660 GTX has a much higher capacity than your old 6570.

I know for a fact that my cpu still has some juice left in it, but that my gfx card is the bottleneck so I too am looking to upgrade.
I do however not have any bios limitations and will be getting a gfx card of the Pascal series once they launch this summer.
(Nvidia's new wonder)

My advice to you though, is to go get the beefiest gfx card you can get to work on your motherboard, keep fans free of dust and preferrably swap out the cooling paste on your cpu, that way you should be able to play modern (and not yet released games) for another couple of years.



I spent 40-50 minutes googling around for you, and I found confirmation of at least one 750 Ti being legacy compatible, and truth be known it is the best 750 on the market anyway.. MSI's Twin Frozr cards are absolutely amazing at running cool even during heavy load.

https://www.techpowe...i_Gaming/5.html

This brief article points out where the switch is, pictures and all.



That said, if you want to save some bucks I would advice waiting until the summer when both Nvidia and AMD are set to release their brand new series of monster cards. There are many, many MSI 750 Ti Twin Frozr cards out there that will be swapped out and sold cheaply, all in good working condition.. and stores will dump the prices on them even further.

*posts.. and then sees it has already been solved*

.... and it turns out it was a waste of time, since you had already upgraded... LOL

Edited by Kravshera, 04 May 2016 - 03:06 PM.