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Hot-Fix Scheduled For 04-28-2016


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#41 Cy Mitchell

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 10:26 PM

All that was needed was Unit (more than 2 tagged) and solo (two or less tagged or tagless). Instead, the decision is to just revert everything after just one week? And Scouting gets the same treatment?

<shrug> Whatever!

#42 Fastwind

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 10:28 PM

View PostCath, on 25 April 2016 - 06:14 PM, said:

So, PGI gave split ques a week.

Players complained about pug vs 12 man for many many months.

PGI comes up with a system that actively works against players playing solo FW.

New system fails (on purpose IMO)

PGI remerges the ques in one week: so we are back to square one.

NOTE and EDIT: I was one of those "solos" that this spit was supposedly aimed at. After looking at the way it was implemented, I declined to play. Freelancers got no rewards commensurate with time involved, Mercs HAD to be in units, therefore group que. Loyalists were tied to faction much more than before, so faction hopping was not an option like before either. There was literally no method for a player that wanted to play solo could do so and earn rewards even equivalent to QP for time spent, even if player got matches. No point = no players.


^^THIS
^^ EXACTLY THIS
^^CAN'T SAY IT ENOUGH
If PGI rly wanted to FIX CW and make it a real thing
they would simply go and tie the PUG queue ((solo and grp) QUICK PLAY,with all it's gamemodes,assault,skirmish,domination,conquest)) into CW
best gamesystem ever,for everyone absolute fair,free choice yada yada
but they want they like forcing players to do things they have no fun with
worst thing to do games should be fun
CW is not atleast not for everyone
it could be but pgi doesn't want it to be
very sad

#43 The Unstoppable Puggernaut

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 11:30 PM

View PostLil Thumper, on 25 April 2016 - 10:09 PM, said:


I could'nt agree more, the machine gun and srm nerf have ruined this hero mech. I'm fairly angry that it's one I paid money for and it was changed from what I purchased originally. Hero mechs should not be changed after they are advertised with certain quirks...thorough testing should be done before they are released to insure you will keep the same product you purchased originally. Or allow us the option of a MC or cash value refund if a hero mech is changed from what you purchased originally.



I think this needs it's own thread in itself. Huginn was my absolute favourite mech and now it's been reduced to my scrap bin just like the Grid Iron. They just don't have many slots to work with so taking something away from it really hurts. Meta mechs are nasty but these Heros actually take skill to get them working. I love the challenged and it used to pay off but now you have the challenge but they just cannot perform...

Extremely disappointed with their quirks but not disappointed with my mech choice. They just need to be fixed.

#44 PFC Carsten

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 11:37 PM

Nice try, PGI. Merging the queues reasoning that Solo queue was too sparsely populated after breaking the queues up multiple vectors. This won't fix it. 4 vs 4 will still be the go-to mode for solos, since there's a higher chance of succeeding even against organized 4-mans than it is in 12 vs 12.

But nice try to blame it on the solos.

--
To add soup to the salt, here's what would fix queue and population problems (and I think I've said it before multiple times).

- Create a mandatory tutorial for each game mode, which players have to go through in order to qualify. This makes sure, people understand the objectives of each mode.
- Separate queues for Solo (maybe including small groups such as 4 mans) and larger groups.
- Give Units sole control over how Faction decisions turn out, i.e. which planets to attack and so on.
- Give Units only MC earnings from Faction Play
- Merge Solo queues into two factions only: IS and clan (If you want to fight for a specific house, join a unit (and no, not a one-man unit). So there will be only 2 queues for Solo faction play. Don't let Solos choose from Scouting or Invasion/Defense, they are lone-wolf mercs, doing what needs to be done.

This way, you have a reasonable amount of queue splits and yet a simple-enough to maintain system that players actually can understand. Right now, it is WAY to complicated when you just want to play a match.

In a further step, maybe even abolish quick play mode (or move it to private lobbies), making Faction Play the default mode (which could work, with the above mentioned simplifications for solo players).

Edited by PFC Carsten, 25 April 2016 - 11:45 PM.


#45 MonkeyCheese

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 12:02 AM

Hmm back to pugstompin, there goes my interest in CW, i understand the queues were dead but boo.

Just make a new quickplay game mode with dropdecks and dropships already.

#46 Prof RJ Gumby

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 12:03 AM

Sorry to see the solo Q gone, hello all the newbies in our matches Posted Image

CW division to make some "safe space" (oh god) for newbies can work, only it cannot be based on adding 20 new separate queues to one gamemode...

It should be done more or less like that:
http://mwomercs.com/...tting-cw-queue/

#47 Rushin Roulette

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 12:14 AM

View PostThe Unstoppable Puggernaut, on 25 April 2016 - 11:30 PM, said:



I think this needs it's own thread in itself. Huginn was my absolute favourite mech and now it's been reduced to my scrap bin just like the Grid Iron. They just don't have many slots to work with so taking something away from it really hurts. Meta mechs are nasty but these Heros actually take skill to get them working. I love the challenged and it used to pay off but now you have the challenge but they just cannot perform...

Extremely disappointed with their quirks but not disappointed with my mech choice. They just need to be fixed.

Im still playing the Huggin and it is still fun, even in CW. OK, it is not as effective as it used to be, but it is still a mech in which you can go completely nuts and still do very well with. How about a 50% heat reduction for MGs? Posted Image

#48 Ian G

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 12:16 AM

So much done wrong in so little time.

So you all write: "PGI needs to get solo FW right. If you drop without being in a group, you play solo FW. Shouldn't care if you are in a unit or stuff. But if you are in group, you get to fight in the group queue."

But even then, units could organize and synch drop on planets in the single queue? "Well, look what are the odds of us twelve being in the same drop on this not attacked planet, harhar."

So maybe FW can't be fixed. So you as a player have to adapt. That means to join a unit or at least get on your house or clan TS server and be a team player. Stiff upper lip, boys. But that's the way FW is and will be. So if you can't get over your ego and your e-peen, FW isn't for you.

Cry me a river, but those are my 2 cents.

#49 NocturnalBeast

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 12:20 AM

View PostDeathlike, on 25 April 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:


While not gamebreaking - trying to set up that dropdeck within 1 minute (insta-drops) with a semi-buggy mech selection screen breaks dropdeck synergy with teammates.

It's super-suboptimal when you don't have much a chance to screw up and get stuck with what you're running.


Well. it is broken, and PGI is fixing it. I managed to switch mechs in time every game and I am probably older / slower than you.

View PostMonkeyCheese, on 26 April 2016 - 12:02 AM, said:

Hmm back to pugstompin, there goes my interest in CW, i understand the queues were dead but boo.

Just make a new quickplay game mode with dropdecks and dropships already.


Join a unit. JFP is a damned good unit, they would take you if you can pass the trials.

#50 justcallme A S H

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 12:38 AM

View PostEd Steele, on 25 April 2016 - 06:41 PM, said:

I agree that the dropdeck bug is infuriating, especially since it happened to me every FW match I have played since the last hotfix, but it is not game-breaking.


Yep, a minor inconvenience really.

Apart from Long Tom, for a big change there hasn't been too many real deal breaker issues at all. Queue stuff was unfortunate, but it's what people had been asking for, so it had to be tried.

#51 justcallme A S H

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 12:42 AM

View PostMovinTarget, on 25 April 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

I find the drop deck reset issue to be only slightly annoying as i typically change myech every match depending on the map and circumstances...



To be fair, you could fix the deck before hitting the 1min drop screen.

We all fixed ours before going to a planet, just for safety sake. Given everything has been noticeably more active, there wasn't too much of an issue.

#52 p4r4g0n

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 01:35 AM

View PostCath, on 25 April 2016 - 06:14 PM, said:

-snip-
PGI comes up with a system that actively works against players playing solo FW.

New system fails (on purpose IMO)
-snip-


While I will not ascribe intent to the "failure" of solo queue in FW, I do wonder if PGI actually understands the motives underlying a solo player's choices in-game.

12v12 solo queue failed for the very simple reason that there was NO way for any solo player who wanted to do a solo drop to organize or initiate one UNLESS they took active steps to do so which they were unlikely to have been willing to do in the first place or they would not have been asking for a solo queue.

Solo players who were willing to use Faction Chat, go to the Faction hub or ask for interested players in QP games are exactly the ones who went straight to unit queue with their one man units.

For those factions whose solo queues were running scouting missions practically non-stop, some of that was, I suspect, due to some solo loyalists making the effort of getting people to join in rather than just passively waiting. Even then, this was not working for 12v12 drops most of the time simply due to the numbers/time needed to get a full team together.

I have to ask whether it was really so difficult to implement a way for unit & solo loyalist to initiate a general call to arms for their respective queues?

Personally, I would prefer PGI to consider reverting to the mixed queue for the 12v12 BUT keep 4v4 a solo queue with the modification that solo unit players could also play SUBJECT to a filter that prevented sync dropping multiple members of the same unit in the same team.

This would make 4v4 the place new players get into CW/FP fairly easily, allow veteran players to guide new players and allow units to do recruiting while giving solo players their desired playground.

View PostCath, on 25 April 2016 - 06:14 PM, said:

-snip-

NOTE and EDIT: I was one of those "solos" that this spit was supposedly aimed at. After looking at the way it was implemented, I declined to play. Freelancers got no rewards commensurate with time involved, Mercs HAD to be in units, therefore group que. Loyalists were tied to faction much more than before, so faction hopping was not an option like before either. There was literally no method for a player that wanted to play solo could do so and earn rewards even equivalent to QP for time spent, even if player got matches. No point = no players.


I have to disagree that you cannot game the system to do faction hopping. It would require some setup on the individual's part but it was doable. TBH I was just waiting for PGI's decision on solo queue to avoid wasting a couple hours setting it up.

Incidentally, running multiple back to back scouting missions gave my clan account solo loyalist equivalent or better rewards than QP, just saying. Just needed to get people to join in through Faction chat.

Have to agree though that the Freelancer experience was pretty dismal mainly due to the absence of ANY call to arms except for one which was for a IS v IS match and completely useless unless I used trial mechs since this test was done on my clan account.



Edit: On a separate but related note, still not seeing anything in CW/FP that motivates a solo player / small unit member to care about flipping colours on a map so the only reason to play it is to farm faction / merc rewards.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 26 April 2016 - 01:41 AM.


#53 AngrySpartan

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 01:37 AM

Unfortunately my worst expectations come to life: instead of fixing the problems PGI just completely eliminates the solo queue due to the flawed concept of unit vs. non-unit play. Merged queue didn't worked for the past year, and it wouldn't for the next one.

No offense, but you aren't even trying to make FW viable for solo players at all, there is a ton of options to fix it! To be clear, I don't mind of merging the queue if everything else is not working, but it looks like Russ&Co. just wants everyone to sign in with a unit.

These flaws in the queue prevent it from working right, not the player population:
Spoiler


And if that doesn't work, only than it will be a time to return to PUG stomps.

UPD.: Thumbs up for p4r4g0n, thanks for the post above! Faction chat and decent loyalist players made CJF a viable faction to play for the last week. 100% second your opinion on players motives.

Edited by AngrySpartan, 26 April 2016 - 02:29 AM.


#54 Want0n

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 01:44 AM

Looks like I'll be taking a break from FW and hence probably MWO when my premium time runs out in a couple of weeks.

I really want to like MWO but so many poor design decisions made consistently. Have to agree that solo queue never had a fair chance. Freelancer mode had absolutely no reason to exist without any additional rewards. Having unit v non-unit, rather than solo v group was also a huge mistake. The final nail in the coffin was imposing the penalties for solo loyalists swapping but making mercenaries require 1-man units.

Why is a 1-man unit even possible? MMOs require a small group paying a nominal fee to create guilds or units. Should be the same here. Oh well. Time to work through my steam library I guess.

#55 Black Ivan

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 01:59 AM

So we are back at PUG stomping and Seal clubbing right? I wonder how fast the CW Forum will be full of PUG vs Group posts again.

The split was done so horrbly wrong in all :(

#56 Icantswim

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 02:18 AM

Alright. Since everybody seems to share their opinions on the phase 3 in this topic I'll follow the suit.

1. 4 v 4 matches. I didn't like them. It's same quick play (skirmish) with extra steps. Tonnage limitations (and game mode itself) heavily favor few selected mechs with quite specific loadouts. And if you happen not to own said mechs (or you just don't like piloting them) you are going to have a bad time.
2. This new game mode steals pilots that could otherwise play normal invasion. Therefore it reduces invasion population and we're having less matches.
Spoiler

3. Scouting and invasion should have separate LFG. When you see an open group of four there's no telling what mode they are going to play. You might find yourself in a situation that you abandon your beneficial position in queue only to be insta kicked out of the group.
4. I agree, with solo pugs out of the equation we are getting much more competitive matches. Yet waiting times went through the roof and it became considerably harder to get a match. Getting into a group is almost a must. Yet decreased population doesn't help much with that either.
5. Same problem remains as before. Big groups are stealing matches. You wait in queue for 15+ minutes, you are super close to getting a match, opponent is waiting and here comes, let's say, a 6 men group and you are left behind. That's ridiculous. Even if you are a part of relatively big group it won't save you from 12 men stealing your match.
Spoiler

The only solution I see is to get rid of groups and LFG in CW/FW/FP (or at least reduce max. group size to say 4
Spoiler
). That way those of us who prefer to play solo won't get robbed of our matches every now and then. And if you still want to drop as a unit - no problem, you can always syncdrop, provided you're all sitting in the same ts channel.
6. Long Tom is seriously overpowered. No-no-no, bear with me. It sure does make matches much more exciting and dynamic. Even fun. i'm sure we all had a few laughs. It is also quite possible to counter if whole group sets their dropdecks right. Yet if it's a surprise Long Tom like when you forgot to check planet's scout precentage, and you are using your normal deck - you are almost doomed. In order for you to win the skill difference between teams must be uncompfortably high.
Long Tom is either severely damages you or forces you out of position. And when you get back in position it's time to scatter again already. All that forces you to act faster, but 2 minute intervals are just too tight in my opinion.
Another uncomfortable thing about Long Tom is that it ignores walls. It doesn't explode mid air, it explodes on the ground so one should be able to take cover to at least reduce damage.
7. With the help of some C-bills you can buy your planet some extra sectors to make it harder to capture. Why not make an option to buy scouting points so it takes longer to scout?

Edited by Icantswim, 26 April 2016 - 02:27 AM.


#57 Tiantara

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 02:25 AM

Quote

The intention behind its release with Phase 3 on April 19th was to provide a more even playing field for players who were not part of an organized Unit.


I think there is a way to make queue even for everyone and also solve problem with solo gamer vs premade group. Maybe sorting by few parameters could give that solution:
1. Count all gamer without group (even if they in unit or in unit of themselves) or in group with equal or less than 3 player - as solo queue.
2. Count gamers in group with more than 3 players as group, even if they have no unit and just grouped to play together and have one side of faction (IS or Clan)
3. Make some % of mixing group queue if not enough population to start match with gamers from point 1.
4. Make some % of mixing solo queue if not enough population to start match with gamers from point 2 (if overall count players in group less than 5)

With this make "call to arm" messages more informative like shoving in them how many free slots have planet for players who want enter in battle. Also, turn messaging off when player customizing his mech or make it a little transparent.
Add second line with numbers in each - solo and group queue for both scout and invasion to know where if free slots.

That could make FW more useful for simple gamers and rise availability of FW for players who now choose quick game.
Also, about "ghost drops".
If possible, you can use same mechanic as in academy. Place non moving different types mech in some strategy places (like laser turrets) without any reward for destroying them. Through that you can show some strategy moments, make a "empty match" more fun and collect some info about location balance.

Anyway - you do great job! It's fun to play in it!

#58 sycocys

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 02:33 AM

1. Second hotfix for the patch. Quality control is something you guys desperately need.

2. 4v4 is half the reason why split queue has no solo invasions, also that you did nothing but make the 12v12 mode worse with long toms deciding matches. Should have run split queue months ago, and spent at least part of the last 6+ months developing a new 12v12 mode because it's been stale as F since CW1.

#59 D V Devnull

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 02:54 AM

PGI, I've just read your upcoming 2016/04/28 Patch notes, and this whole thread. Here comes another Wall-Of-Text, because I'm rather disappointed, kind of like this annoyed turtle...
Posted Image
...but this time, I'm coming through with something rather important, more intelligible, and far more useful compared to what has come before. You had better keep reading if you don't want to fail massively again. :angry:

Anyway, re-merging the queues isn't what's actually necessary here. If you REALLY want people to play FW/CW/FP (whatever the hell you're gonna call it) again, then you need to stop penalizing everyone so heavily. The following changes need to occur, and hail back to rather good parts of "CW, Beta 2"...
  • Reduce And Adjust "Loyalist Desertion Penalties"
    That "25% LP loss" is far too much, and has caused many (myself included) to not hook up with a House. Hell, I'm sure many could have put up with the rumored 100-Million loss before this piece-of-junk "Phase 3" came around. Instead for what exists now, make it a mix of LP and , preferably "13.5% LP loss, but only to what's been gained since last joining the Faction... and 35-Million ", because that amount would actually be tolerable while still incurring a hard-enough hit. (Heck, it would even steal away enough to keep someone from constructing at least one new Mech design they wanted to keep in their bays!) Your current hit levels are too extreme, and incur over-commitment of time where it may not be possible for some to do.
  • Create "Temporary Loyalist Contracting"
    Many players (unfortunately including myself, and likely someone else I know) in MWO do not have the ability to lock-in for the ultra-long haul, and your current system cuts off a massive amount of Content and Achievements for them. Not just because of Penalties, but because of time required to get anywhere, and the level of extra strain it would put on them to rotate through things as they absolutely need to be able to do. The contracting system in the "CW, Beta 2" phase of FW actually perfectly handled this without the usage of "Careers", but since I'm sure you won't get rid of Careers, here's another useful idea. For those needing Temporary Contracts, but wanting to hook up with a house, provide a "3-Month Temporary Loyalist Contract" to handle their needs. During this period, they would earn the base amount of LP that their Faction was willing to deliver for matches. Should they complete the Contract all the way to expiration, they would be out on their ear like a Merc without a Penalty, having to re-choose which Faction they wished to Contract with. However, if they try to 'Break Contract' early, then the "Desertion Penalties" from the above #1 section would apply, in order to catch them out for trying to run off. (As a plus to you, PGI, implementing this part will definitely remove the feeling of rejection any Casual Completionist in the Community is feeling right now. You did take away their ability to quote-unquote "Properly Complete" the game, after all, even though you don't think you did.)
  • Boost "True Loyalist" LP gains
    This is no joke, PGI, and is meant to balance for having #2 above. It also covers for those who went "True Loyalist", but have felt shorted since the change from "CW, Beta 2" into "FW, Phase 3". Give anyone who goes "True Loyalist" an 'extra 15% LP gain', even beyond what it is now. Perhaps even 20% more, but I'll leave that up to you to decide, even though that would sweeten the pot further. This would provide "True Loyalist" folk a feeling of success and accomplishment like what there was with "CW, Beta 2", as they would do well over anyone else, and therefore maintains a proper curve as before.
  • Enable Full 'Clan vs. IS' Warfare
    Again, another serious matter. Any Clan should be able to help their fellow Clans, when choosing to fight against the Inner Sphere. Any Inner Sphere House should be able to help another Inner Sphere House, when choosing to fight against the Clans. It's rather simple, and shouldn't be much of a jump of logic to realize, some on both sides of the fence feel wrong squabbling amongst their own kind. Quit trying to force them into squabbling like that, and you'll have more people willing to play Faction Warfare. Right now, you're offending a fair chunk of your player base by not allowing 'Full-Side Teaming' in those situations.
  • Provide longer basic Mercenary Contracts
    So, here's another thing from "CW, Beta 2" that has been unnecessarily lost. Right now, Mercenaries are only getting a single, "7-day (+0%)" Contract option, and I'm sure they feel shorted. Provide them with longer Contract options, each of which has useful bonuses. Preferably something like "14-day (+7.5% RP)" and "28-day (+15% RP)" Contract options. I'm not sure what penalty, if any, you're currently applying for anyone breaking a Mercenary Contract. But, I would increase the penalty by '5% for breaking a 14-day contract early', and '10% for breaking a 28-day contract early', as that would balance out these boosted options. As a fair note, these options would likely be perfectly in-line and balanced with those for the "Loyalist" folk.
  • Quit hurting your Community by over-catering to "Rabid Lore Junkie Zealots"
    Yes, seriously PGI, this one's rather extremely straightforward. When it comes to computer game design, one critical thing that games like MechWarrior 2&3 had in common was that they didn't over-cater to just one group of players. Those games were never "Pop Boutiques" and succeeded in attracting many players, but the Lore was used only as a guide in many places, and wasn't a forced rule all over the place. Now don't get me wrong here, I do like to have the Lore to read as well. But, where you went wrong is that you started trying to force it down people's throats, like a 10-Gallon Barrel Of Alcohol. (I was gonna say "5-Gallon Jug", but you really went off and beyond too far, PGI.) You do realize that only a small subset of people like that insanity, right? Allow people their free choice, using the above five sections, and only provide the Lore as an assistant that they can choose whether they follow at all. As someone in another thread mentioned, many personalities in Lore made their names through working all across the many Factions out there. Allow your players here in MWO to do the same, and ultimately have the ability to actually follow all the various paths that exist to this game. Only then will you find out who are the True MechWarriors.
  • Complete the list of Clans for this Time Period
    No, really PGI, I'm just not joking here. You're missing two Clans, and I've already confirmed it through the "BattleTech Wiki" over at "Sarna.net". This is probably one of the rare spots where I would actually support the "Lore Junkie" crowd in regard to matters. It's past time to insert them, the "Nova Cat" and "Steel Viper" Clan Factions. That would make the Faction Warfare content much easier to balance, as then the war would become the "True 6 Clans vs. 6 Inner Sphere Houses" which it was supposed to be. I think I remember seeing some people who were even saying they would go "True Loyalist" to those Clans, should they get introduced where they're currently missing in MWO. That's one freaking hefty claim coming from those people, and I'm sure you would get a lot of positive benefit from them if you actually listened. (I know I would feel invigorated by seeing the universe get a heck of a lot more populated.)
...and with all of those 7 things (the most important of anything springing to my mind) implemented, I'm actually certain your game would revive. Like, imagine MWO being a Phoenix Rising from the ashes, and becoming even more than it has ever been. Imagine having many players you've lost (myself included, even as critical as I can be about my reviews) returning to the game, and restoring the positive side of the Community beyond its' former glory. Imagine having Real Money, overloads of $$$, just dropping right into your hands and collective bank accounts. Imagine your community growing, and ultimately providing you with more people willing to pay to keep your company alive, and game development active and growing. For that matter, imagine Russ Bullock's words being laid to shame, and your game lasting far longer than just 7 years. Imagine it instead existing, living, and growing even 20 to 25 years from now. That would have been my wish as a MechWarrior from an older era, but you've got to have the common sense now to reform and pull out of the nose-dive that you've entered, PGI. B)

~Mr. D. V. "I've got the Future Sight... The question is, 'Will you follow it, PGI?'... It's possible to grow if you do." Devnull




(p.s.: There is more that I could say, but I don't think this post is the time or place for those not-so-important things. If you do listen and revive the game properly, PGI, you will likely get a post about those other things from me later.)

#60 Threat Doc

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 03:24 AM

PGI, you did not give these queues a real chance, and the way this was implemented was crap, especially for Freelancer's dealing with the Solo queue. I was actually going back into the Faction queue to play, whether that be in Invasion or Scouting, and the pop-ups were almost always Clan vs. Inner Sphere, and the Scouting meta for Clans was Arctic Cheaters and Shadowcat's almost exclusively, no winning against a Clan team, period. So, I was trying to go with Inner Sphere on Inner Sphere, but I was able to play four games over the week since release! Shame on you.

Perhaps, once you have the AI done, you will be able to try this, again, where we can find the enemy team are a proper mixture of live pilots and bots under their control.





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