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Are Some Players Just Not For Heavies And/or Assaults?


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#21 jss78

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 10:27 AM

I'm a medium jock through and through. Anything outside 35-65 tons and I'm out of my depth.

Mediums are kind of a special case, because they're a weight class where you really cannot play too independently. You can't go out on your own (like lights): if you get wolf-packed buy enemy lights, you won't have the speed to escape and you're pretty much screwed. Most enemy line mechs will outgun you one-on-one.

So you're a kind of a team player out of necessity. Constantly have to think about what you do in relation to your team mates: where to watch your assaults' back, where to focus fire with team mates to get enemies down, where to flank (without getting isolated). So you're that jack-of-all-trades utility man who helps the team in whatever it is doing. It's a particular play style and one that I enjoy best.

The only problem as a die-hard medium jock is making a hard-hitting deck for CW. What I've done is reluctantly buy some fast assaults (70 kph Zeuses) which play somewhat like a really sturdy medium.

#22 Spleenslitta

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 11:31 AM

View Postjss78, on 28 April 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

Mediums are kind of a special case, because they're a weight class where you really cannot play too independently. You can't go out on your own (like lights): if you get wolf-packed buy enemy lights, you won't have the speed to escape and you're pretty much screwed. Most enemy line mechs will outgun you one-on-one.

Your right about the line mechs outgunning you and getting wolf packed by lights. But it is quite possible to play almost completly independantly of the team and still do better than average.
I made a guide for non meta tactics for light mechs and it turns out it worked fine for medium mechs too. My Kit Fox manages to use these tactics despite it's comparativly low speed for a light mech.
As a matter of fact my Kit Fox outperforms my Firestarters and my Vindicator does really well too.

The guide has lots of map pictures and explanations. Link. http://mwomercs.com/...-tactics-guide/
Be aware that i haven't updated the guide in forever but it will still work with no problems.
The build of your mech matters less than you might think but a minimum of 100 kph is more or less a requirement.
JJ's and/or ECM is a big plus too.

However it's completly utterly useless in CW. And when i say that word i mean it. Those CW maps have to little room to run around in.
Final warning - Anyone who are obsessed with KDR stats should not try this since it's high risk gambling tactics and it takes a lot of practice to get used to.

But here is the thing you might love about my Mechanical Rodent Martial Arts (M.R.M.A. for short) is the rush of adrenaline as you run around like a rodent trying not to get squashed.
You probably won't get that from standing toe to toe with the enemy.

#23 AmazingOnionMan

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 12:23 PM

I'm one of those. Put me in a light, and I can perform (provided I don't get overeager and make a mistake, in which case the performing stops real quick). Put me in a medium and watch me smile. Put me in a heavy or assault and watch me get stomped in a most embarrasssing manner. I like the Grasshopper because I play it as a humungous medium, like the Jagermech because it is awesome dakka fun. But anything else in the Heavy+ class; nope, does not compute.
I need my mobility. The bigger and slower the mech, the harder you get punished when you mess up. And I mess up a lot.

#24 Quintus Verus

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 12:42 PM

1. First off, don't get discouraged about your recent experience with Heavy and Assault mechs.
2. Also, don't get caught up in what the current "Meta" is. Too many new folks are told to go to the Meta build websites that rank mechs into tiers and then show you how to min/max your build base on that current meta.
3. First you should concentrate on learning to play many different types of medium builds. (Laser, PPC, AC, and missile load out). Identify the builds you are most successful with. Its important to learn on mediums and not lights. Mediums behave more like bigger mechs and will show you how to survive without enhanced speeds and hitbox sizes.
4. Once you've mastered (play/skillwise) the types of medium builds you like, look for heavy mechs that have the same or close to the same weapon slots. Build your heavies along the lines of what made you successful in mediums.
5. Pick a range you want to fight at in your heavies and assaults. Gear your weapon loads to do the most damage at those ranges without completely melting yourself down with too much heat.
5A. When selecting weapon load outs, go with what you are good at, and take advantage of any quirks that mech might have.
6. Don't build one-trick-pony mechs. (i.e. all LRMS with no backup weapons.) Stick to pairs for load outs. Long/Medium range, medium/short, or all short range.
7. I build my load outs with 3 main firing groups and a 4th with chain-fire of one of the 1st 3 groups.
8. Heavy and assault mechs are slower, turn less quickly, don't jump as high, or torso twist as fast. This means you should be constantly looking at your position versus that of your team mates. Try to fight from the pack. Concentrate fire when you can on mechs that others are engaging.
9. Remember you often can't disengage from a bad position so move and fire wisely.
10. Learn to torso twist away from your main weapons side. Don't center up and take multiple alpha's from the Op-For. Fire your salvo's and turn to spread damage.
11. Spreading damage is accentual to survival b/c you are easier to hit.
12. Don't gimp yourself by putting a small engine in your mechs. A minimum for an assault mech is a 300 engine. A good sweet spot for a heavy is 280-295 based on tonnage available. Heavy mechs with really good hit boxes will allow you to run big XL engines in them and increase your survival by having the speed to engage and move.
13. Master all your chosen mechs. That extra module slot is crucial to many builds. As you can afford it, work your way up to 4 radar derp modules when you're ready for CW.
14. Take your new heavy builds, log into the tutorial with that mech selected and equipped and then run the mission where you have to stop waves of mechs. See how effective your designs are against armor of different builds.
15. When in doubt core the torso with the most weapon firing from that side. Learn the layouts of the mechs you are facing and learn to strip the side with the most weapons first in an encounter.

Edited by Quintus Verus, 28 April 2016 - 01:06 PM.


#25 Spleenslitta

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 01:09 PM

View PostQuintus Verus, on 28 April 2016 - 12:42 PM, said:

6. Don't build one-trick-pony mechs. (i.e. all LRMS with no backup weapons.) Stick to pairs for load outs. Long/Medium range, medium/short, or all short range.

Good advice allaround Quintus. Especially nr.6.

LRM's with no backup weapons are the worst kind. Sacrifise 1 or 2 tons of ammo to get a few lasers at least.
I take things a step further and get short/medium/intermediate/long range in one build.
Example. Kit Fox with 4x MG's, ER PPC, 1 small and 1 medium ER laser and JJ's, ECM.

Yup....that's right. When i get up close i don't use the ER PPC unless there is an emergency because of the heat.
With that i got decent close range punch that stays cool. At long range i got half the power of a 2x ERLL Raven but at intermediate range the CERML kicks in and suddenly i have about equal firepower with that sniper Raven.

My philosophy is that having a weapon for every opportunity that is given me makes up for the lack of focus on a particular range.
A sniper focused light mech would run away from a close quarter fight and a short range light mech is toothless at long range.
But i can do damage either way.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 28 April 2016 - 01:09 PM.


#26 Koniving

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 02:27 PM

View PostKarl Streiger, on 27 April 2016 - 10:44 PM, said:

Assault Mechs need a calm pilot

This.

Even under fire like this, you need to keep calm and don't panic.


If you can do that, you can pull something like this off with any mech.
In which a completely outgunned pilot (me) in a trial Cicada is against a Jenner and a rival trial Cicada in a 2 on one fight which was going downhill fast and then turned around dramatically with a choice move to switch from standard fire to chain fire -- otherwise I would have died.


An example of calmness and maybe a bit of laughter where I finish off 6 out of 8 threats using an Atlas D, teamed up with a Camera Commando 2D (this little guy is providing me with some ECM cover but is mostly filming until I say to defend himself). (Also on the teamspeak is another Zhizhu force in a separate Conquest match; I'm in an assault match with only Lordred's commando working with me).

A test of patience, getting bombarded at range and unable to do anything about it as I try to get in a perfect position. Then, in the sung words of Bo Burnham, "You're ******". Posted Image

Here, it's the the ability to change rapidly from a target I want to attack to a target I need to attack, to being able to drop all attention from a potential threat to attack an enemy that the team wants put down quickly (and when unable to attack it myself, being able to relocate, shift attention, and return it when it's needed).

Anyway, patience and a cool head is what it takes to run an assault mech. Methodical thought while under fire, being able to set goals in your mind and execute them in the face of slaughter, these are abilities you need because as much as we all preach about "positioning", sometimes you just can't out position your enemies and you must act. So when you do act, it must be decisive.

Allowing you to pull this off.
Here, I'm in an assault mech with a lance, and my two or three lancemates are killed in a single minute where I continue fighting for several minutes after the fact after the enemy force gangs up on me.
Or this
where I'm in a Hunchback 4P and suddenly ambushed by a rapid fire, high DPS Jagermech that almost kills me during an overheat, but I get it started back up with my plan already set to give him my back, regroup to cool off and come back to hand him his coffin. He wound up being killed or killing himself, either way when I returned I continued hunting down enemies with ruthless and deadly efficiency.
So back to assaults. There's this post Clans vid with an OLD, old Atlas RS build using standard heatsinks, pit against lights and triumphing despite being blatantly out maneuvered.

There is probably a myriad of more examples I could use but then we'd be here all day.

Such as this Battlegrid tutorial where I'm both demonstrating Battlegrid use, coordinating 11 other players prior to voice chat, heading charges against enemy forces and mowing them down,
to this Flamer Stalker 2014 match (Shar Wolf's in this one) against several assaults (this whole vid is worth watching),
to this time during a Stalker trial tutorial about positioning and the like where when the fight goes massively downhill, I continue to put out as much damage as I can while trying to escort the only other guy left to safety.

TL;DR: All in all... If it's too long, didn't read or you just want a quick summary, then my first answer to the Short Questions and Answers thread (second post) covers it best in two definitions from the Vocabulary section of commonly used phrases:

View PostKoniving, on 02 October 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

  • "To Commit" is a term that refers to engaging in a fight you cannot pull away from. With a single life this is important because once you commit that's it. Either you win or you die as the situation is impossible to escape from. Examples of usage: "Are we going to commit?" "Are you sure about this? We can't win. (response) It's too late we're committed." "I've got hostiles here. (Roger that, rendezvous with us and lure 'em.) No can do, I'm committed."
  • "Going down" is the guaranteed losing form of "to commit." With enough experience you will know right away when there is nothing you can do and so reporting (on voice) that you are going down lets your comrades know that you cannot be rescued and that any attempt to do so will result in a Black Hawk Down scenario.


(Side note: Liao Atlas (Shar Wolf is in here) and both matches of Koniving plays seriously are also both great examples of what is said here. Liao Atlas is just a continuous stream of "Decisive Action" to glorious results.

On Koniving plays seriously, in the second match, the only reason I didn't survive is there were two times I failed to act immediately due to hesitation. Then again who doesn't hesitate when fighting against 4 Stalkers, 3 of which are Miseries each with an AC/20? But had I acted, I would have survived the fight after they were slaughtered by my lance.)

Edited by Koniving, 28 April 2016 - 02:54 PM.


#27 Spetulhu

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 04:11 PM

As said you need a different mindset for heavies/assaults. You're slower than the lights/mediums you've tried so you can't be the one running around. You often have to rely on those lighter mechs to find you targets and get there to exploit the red doritos provided. Or you can lead the charge - but that requires you to really know the maps well, and where enemies usually cluster.

I started as a Light pilot but now I can do somewhat good in heavier mechs too. I have a few mastered heavies/assaults that can do shocking damage if I know where to go and my lighter team mates keep stuff off my butt. As said, if. Random matches with random people of different skill levels will sometimes mean the big guys are left behind to be eaten by enemy lights. But just as often you get a couple guys who know the value in keeping that Dire Whale firing for as long as possible.

#28 TooDumbToQuit

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 05:00 PM

In my first "day" I've tried semi everything. I should say I have poor eyesight and bad hands so I do not think I shoot well and honestly, the amount of firing buttons on larger mechs is confusing. Can I change 3,4 5 etc to somewhere else on my keyboard for instance? I find those hard to shoot.

Traveling slower makes me think more about where I'm going and reminds me to stay in the group. But it is sooo annoying.

This is why I'm looking into scouting, targeting etc. I'm trying to find a role where I help the most. When I target someone with my ECM, does it help others?

For me, it comes down to being the best team player I can be. (always is) I have played an assault and heavy because I hoped it would give us a better chance to win. So far my joke it that my value to the team is soaking up damage that might be killing them...lol

#29 Koniving

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 05:37 PM

Yes you can relocate the firing keys. I use mouse 1-5 for this.

Ecm does not target so to speak but if you are within 90 meters of an enemy that does not have BAP can have their missile lock abilities jammed (no locks).

Soaking damage does help. In a 2 vs 1 with me facing a quad er ppc stalker and quad ppc plus gauss Atlas using a misery, I almost one this harrowing 3+ minute brawl. Stalker was stripped. Enemy was almost stripped and then it'd be my victory.

The Atlas is on his last arm. Gauss still intact. A single er ppc still functional. The battle had been brutal, so much overheating. He Is overheated and recharging as I power up. My weapons are ready, I just need the mech powered to release my payload.

As the killing blow of twin ppcs, uac/5, SRM 6, twin sl and one SPL were ready to deliver, the stalker parades between us taking my ppcs and uac/5. My lasers and missiles fired after he cleared as the Atlas fired his Gauss and ppc. His Gauss detonated, removing his ability to fight. But it was too late, he already fired and I died.

#30 TooDumbToQuit

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 05:53 PM

So using ECM is only for me...bummer, lol.

How do you relocate the firing keys?

#31 Morggo

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 05:02 AM

View PostLikeUntoGod, on 28 April 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

This is why I'm looking into scouting, targeting etc. I'm trying to find a role where I help the most. When I target someone with my ECM, does it help others?


1. Yes, you can be very helpful and provide solid role support in a Light. For example, last night I dusted off my Jenner-F, with just 6 small pulse laz I consistently hit 300-700 dmg and 1-3 kills, averaged around 400 and a kill. Never discount a Light's contribution ;)

2. ECM does help others, but it's sort of like passive targeting in a way... as long as you are within 90 meters of them they benefit from your ECM coverage. That is why a lot of time you'll see us ECM lights run over to the fatties at the start of a match and hug the lance, covering their advance.

#32 MoonShaman

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 06:21 AM

Well, here's my update. I took the advice and started by trying out the other Clan trial mech, the Timber Wolf. I've played it only 4 times, but it was enough for me to realize, that yes this is my style. It's so damn simple, I played amazingly well (even in the match I soon realized we were now down 3 to 8. So, I'm JUST 5 million off from getting my first one (thank you 48 hours Premium Time). So, having found my Heavy Legs, I will soon build an army of Wolves all named after tribes from White-Wolf's table-top RPGs Werewolf: The Apocalypse and Werewolf: The Forsaken.

Also, as ever my girlfriend, being the fount of wisdom and creative thinker she is, has said these very things too (it was her idea that I try a different trial mech). And she doesn't even play the game- or really understand it either. XD

I SHOULD have my first Timberwolf by this evening (I hope), and will post either tomorrow or the day after on how my training is doing.

#33 WildVector

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 06:54 AM

Hahaha..

Not only does this post has a LOT of good info, but you came to the right conclusion soon enough.

I'll only add you situational bits:

TRY to use the current event to win 2 free mechs+mechbays (even if you have to join a mercenary unit for 7 days)

TRY to friend (in-game) the helpful posters, more often than not they'll be available for some direct info with some matches in between.


The best of luck and happy hunts Posted Image

#34 ImperialKnight

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 07:07 AM

View PostMoonShaman, on 27 April 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

I've tried played and even bought (only to quickly sell) heavies and Assault (the King Crab).

I've tried both Clan and IS and I just well SUCK. Jags were too squishy and very often I was left alone ito be eaten while my team mates ran off to the four winds (also in heavies and other types of mechs).

I think I'm a good (some times I'm VERY good) light pilot, and a good ennough Medium to get by and pull my fair weight in battles.

But after all the Heavies and the King Crab, I'm beginning to think I'm not Heavy or for that matter Assault material.

I want to play faction REALLY bad, but I have ZERO heavy skills. Will my Medium and Light skills make up for this?

I've been eyeing up the Mad Dog calss though for Clan, as it has a nice LRM and pulse laser build, which I think I might be able to pull off. Should I try one more time? Or is there maybe something in the Mediums or a better Heavy to suit my play style? Or maybe there just ISN'T a Heavy in the game for me YET?


Anyone can learn to be a good pilot in every class/chasis. But each person will always tend to have a niche. It's up to you if you want to take the pain and learn. Or just stick what you like. To each his own.

Just remember each class and indeed each chasis plays very differently, and it will take time to get used to them.

The fact you're in Tier 5 doesn't help either. Assault class mechs really do need teams that can function at least with some coherence to do well, as they are not fast enough to reposition.

#35 plodder

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:11 AM

In the lighter class mechs you like, what do you feel is the aspect that makes you do better"
Is it your offensive play, hit em hard hit em fast.
Or is it the defensive speed and small hit box survivability?
Of course the twine, but look at what you are doing and apply that knowledge to your assault.

You run into that assault that gives you fits, takes you down, does not fall for your rascally tricks rabbit.
I recently had a Locust do better than any single light ever against my assault. It was a nasty piece of beauty, and I learned something because of it.

Basic keys, Mr. K already had this I am sure, but I did not read.
Do not battle primarily throttle forward when circling a mech of reasonable speed advantage over you.

Reverse full speed hold it down, pivot swing. When mech goes beyond your arc, turn away(still in reverse) swing your torso the opposite way and they will be in your sight....... unless they are intuitive and good.
That is just a basic thing. You will never close the arc to fire on him in forward if he has superior speed.

Carry a Uav. When you are in trouble and slow. Uav says help and tells you the direction of the little spitfire roiling your backside..

Blah blah blah right? gl hf.

#36 Elendil

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 11:14 AM

If you're in a group with coordinated allies, being a heavy or assault is fine.
If you're in a low-tier random fight, you will die a horrible death every single time (because the heavier your mech, the more you depend on your allies to stay alive).

If you want to play an assault well, you need to pay constant attention to the positioning of your allies and the enemy. It's ALL about positioning; you can't really move, so you can't take risks.
You also can't get left behind, or get distracted by a duel, or waste all your firepower trying to snipe, or try to be "creative" or "tactical".

Your job is to march to the front, hide behind a boulder, and wait for someone to drive into your sights so you can hit him with a rock.



Lights and mediums can take all kinds of risks and get away with it, assaults don't have that luxury. They have a very specific job, and everyone else is depending on them to do it, and do it well.

Edited by Elendil, 03 May 2016 - 11:52 AM.






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