111 replies to this topic

[Yosharian]

It's definitely a powerful mech, but does it need nerfing, or does the rest of the Inner Sphere need bringing up to its level?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Steve Pryde, on 28 April 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

Many other mechs have ****** weapon mounts too but they have not such quirks (hello Orion, Atlas for example).

AS7-S has solid quirks for the thing it normally runs.

[TheLuc]

Again a nerf this, OP that post, oxide is fine as it is as well as the BK, I write that and I don't own any of both.

after that it will be Viper is OP !! Please nerf and then it will be nerf the Cyclops. why no one whine about the most OP mech of the game. THE URBIE !!!

Edited by TheLuc, 28 April 2016 - 10:11 AM.

[cazidin]

DjPush, on 28 April 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

Well played. I do have power, atleast, to give you +1 like. Good day!

[Steve Pryde]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 April 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

AS7-S has solid quirks for the thing it normally runs.

Well, your're right, never looked into AS7-S quirks. But Orion can't even run an xl engine because its side torso are so easy to hit.

But despite that I hate to nerf mechs, just buff clan omnimechs (and get rid of locked equipment).

[Novakaine]

Pgi please please nerf people calling for nerfs.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Steve Pryde, on 28 April 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

But despite that I hate to nerf mechs, just buff clan omnimechs (and get rid of locked equipment).

No, power creep is not a good solution.

[Khobai]

the problem isnt just the black knight. its quirks in general

quirks never shouldve been used to balance IS vs Clan tech

[Barantor]

Monkey Lover, on 28 April 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

It's a 75 ton mech it shouldn't be a POS. Now that they pulled the armor into line with the other heavy mechs I'm OK with it.

Orion silently cries in the corner.

Awesome with 5 more tons wishes it could be as durable.

Dragon doesn't even feel like it is in the same bracket.

Victor tries to jumpjet and weep because even with 5 tons of JJs it isn't as strong.

[Yosharian]

Barantor, on 28 April 2016 - 11:05 AM, said:

Orion silently cries in the corner.

Awesome with 5 more tons wishes it could be as durable.

Dragon doesn't even feel like it is in the same bracket.

Victor tries to jumpjet and weep because even with 5 tons of JJs it isn't as strong.

Never heard of those mechs

[kapusta11]

Timberwolf with 7 cMPLs and 26 DHS is nearly identical to 3x LPL + 5x ML Black Knight (GH for MPLs and quirks are factored in).

[Charles Sennet]

Metus regem, on 28 April 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

Learn to twist? It's laser damage, twist and you'll put all that damage across your LT/CT/RT, I'd be more worried about a PPC packing Warhammer since that's PPFLD...

Easy for you to say when the IS Large Pulse Laser Duration (.67s) is shorter than a Clan Small Pulse Laser duration (.75s).

[Alistair Winter]

You know, I've been a fan of the Black Knight since day 1. I always felt it was a good mech, even when it had a borked CT and before it got improved quirks. I bought it a la carte, and quite frankly, I liked the Black Knight before it was cool.

http://mwomercs.com/...y-my-best-mech/

However, I do find it a bit... puzzling to see how many people are arguing against a BK nerf. It's widely (though not universally) recognized as the best IS heavy mech, which arguably means it's the best IS mech overall, and even the best mech in the game (if you subscribe to the idea that the 75 ton heavy is the ideal weight class and that IS heavies are currently better than Clan heavies).

You may not agree with all that. Maybe you just figure it's barely a top 3 IS heavy mech, and a top 5 mech overall. But to me, this in itself is proof that it doesn't need so good quirks. If reducing its weapon quirks by 5% would instantly render it useless, the BK wouldn't be so popular right now. If there was no weight restrictions in 12v12 matches, how many Black Knights would you see in a 12-man group? I imagine it would be more than 3. Indeed, I've heard stories of my unit (Isengrim) dropping with a 12 Black Knight wave in CW. So much for role warfare and the magical synergy between lights, mediums, heavies and assaults.

I'd be fine if they nerfed the BK again, slightly. However... I am really disappointed that PGI decided to nerf its structure quirks instead of weapon quirks. I'd rather have a rugged, reliable juggernaut with limited firepower than a glass cannon that can 2-shot enemies in 5 seconds.

[Coolant]

sure, why not nerf it...i don't use it so it won't bother me. Think the BK is kinda cheesy tbh, just like the grasshopper.

Edited by Coolant, 28 April 2016 - 12:07 PM.

[Ultimax]

Aresye, on 28 April 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

Hint - When your solution to one of the most powerful IS mechs is to buff a tech class that pretty much already had most nerfs removed, and is already known for being insanely powerful, you are in a full speed power creep situation.

I'm not asking for actual buffs, just a reduction or removal of some previous nerfs.

Clan XL speed penalty was a big one, CERMLAS nerf was another big one - both of these hit all clan mechs including the TBR, which is one of the reasons its not really favored right now.

IS got structure quirks that I feel were an improvement to the game - I think they were a good direction but I don't think clan mechs needed Clan XL speed penalties for losing an ST with the advent of these IS structure quirks.

Everyone had their skill trees nerfed, but IS mechs have (almost universally) had agility/mobility boosts added back into the chassis themselves. This is not true for clan mechs, that simply lost agility/mobility.

Did clan mechs really need DHS cap nerf if so many IS mechs were going to gain -heat gen quirks?

So that's another nerf that could be rethought.

Those are some of the things I'm saying should be reduced/removed (or alleviated).

Aresye, on 28 April 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

you are in a full speed power creep situation.

So, battle tech, basically.

Edited by Ultimax, 28 April 2016 - 12:18 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Requirk all mechs to support only their stock configurations.

[Charles Sennet]

CK16, on 28 April 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

- Also Timberwolfs...finding the Meta Laser wolf can hold up to the Black Knight actually. I know call me crazy, but after comparing the two I found they both are good at the Alpha laser game, though the Timberwolf runs hotter it is more mobile and tanky. Plus larger alpha if running simular build to the Meta Knight.

Sorry, you're saying the Timberwolf is more tanky than a Black Knight? Want to check that again?

[Mystere]

Metus regem, on 28 April 2016 - 09:45 AM, said:

As Gas above me mentioned, .67 seconds is not 1 millisecond... As I also stated PPFLD is way more dangerous than laser DoT....

And just to make sure everyone is well informed, 0.67 seconds is exactly 670 milliseconds.

[kapusta11]

Ultimax, on 28 April 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

I'm not asking for actual buffs, just a reduction or removal of some previous nerfs.

Clan XL speed penalty was a big one, CERMLAS nerf was another big one - both of these hit all clan mechs including the TBR, which is one of the reasons its not really favored right now.

IS got structure quirks that I feel were an improvement to the game - I think they were a good direction but I don't think clan mechs needed Clan XL speed penalties for losing an ST with the advent of these IS structure quirks.

Everyone had their skill trees nerfed, but IS mechs have (almost universally) had agility/mobility boosts added back into the chassis themselves. This is not true for clan mechs, that simply lost agility/mobility.

Did clan mechs really need DHS cap nerf if so many IS mechs were going to gain -heat gen quirks?

So that's another nerf that could be rethought.

Those are some of the things I'm saying should be reduced/removed (or alleviated).

So, battle tech, basically.

Sorry but that's just a load of bullshіt

3x LPL + 5x ML +19 DHS BK vs 7x MPL +26 DHS Timberwolf

Heat dissipation: 3.75 vs 5.06
Heat per alpha: 37(quirked) vs 47(GH)
Heat cap: 76.20 vs 81.12
Ratio(heat gen over 4 sec/heat dissipation): 2.467 vs 2.32
Effective range: 324 (quirks + module)vs 363 (module)
Structure, accel and decel quirks vs cXL

They are almost identical, nerf BK and that will change.

Edited by kapusta11, 28 April 2016 - 02:22 PM.

[Ultimax]

kapusta11, on 28 April 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

Sorry but that's just a load of bullshіt

3x LPL + 5x ML +19 DHS BK vs 7x MPL +26 DHS Timberwolf

Heat dissipation: 3.75 vs 5.06
Heat per alpha: 37(quirked) vs 47(GH)
Heat cap: 76.20 vs 81.12
Ration(heat gen over 4 sec/heat dissipation): 2.467 vs 2.32
Effective range: 324 (quirks + module)vs 363 (module)
Structure, accel and decel quirks vs cXL

They are almost identical, nerf BK and that will change.

That TBR build is not a thing for one.

It also either accepts ghost hear, or much higher exposure times.

The side torsos are easier to remove than the BKs, which at this point in the state of the game basically cripples the mech.


It's kind of an oddball thing to go by the effective range of the MLAS and not the LPLs.


Nerfing the BK will simply send the BK back to the trash bin - exactly where it was before it got quirks.


Do people seriously not remember this mech on release?

Its great now because big structure quirks offset its severely bad mount locations, heat gen and range quirks let it be effective at mid-range without frying itself silly (which it can end up doing anyway).


Its a great mech, because it has quirks it was a bad mech without them.

Edited by Ultimax, 28 April 2016 - 01:10 PM.