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Night Gyr Hero 'mech Speculation


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#1 Hit the Deck

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 09:51 PM

What configuration could it have?

There's that H-variant which has ECM but it uses future tech so it probably will not make it to the game. It could live as the Hero though, so there's still hope Posted Image Nah, adding ECM is too cheesy and the Kodiak Hero already got a MASC. IMO, an engine limit increase would be welcome on this 'Mech so make the Hero able to equip a 325 rated engine (75.5 kph with tweak)!

As for the hardpoints, A, B, C, and D variants already cover all that you need. Adding a new double or triple hardpoints on a single component on this 'Mech will make it a Munchkin and we don't need more of it. PGI could give it at least double AMS because it has so much free tonnage. Beside giving it 1M on CT, I can't think of anything without turning the Hero as a must have....


EDIT: durr, I forgot that this is an OmniMech......

Edited by Hit the Deck, 29 April 2016 - 09:59 PM.


#2 Seal Farmer

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 01:33 AM

Apart from allowing ECM which would be of value.


Left Torso - 2x Energy slots or 2x Missile slots
Right Torso - 2x Energy slots or 2x Missile slots
Center Torso - 2x Energy slots

#3 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 04:24 AM

A hero variant with a 2-3B right arm, or perhaps a hero with 1E1B arms would be nice. Or 1M1B. This mech doesn't exactly do​ laservomit well, due to crit space starvation hampering double heat sink space, but missiles and ballistics are another story.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 30 April 2016 - 04:25 AM.


#4 Hit the Deck

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 04:32 AM

View PostPariah Devalis, on 30 April 2016 - 04:24 AM, said:

A hero variant with a 2-3B right arm, or perhaps a hero with 1E1B arms would be nice. Or 1M1B. This mech doesn't exactly do​ laservomit well, due to crit space starvation hampering double heat sink space, but missiles and ballistics are another story.

I could agree with the 1M1B arms but not sure about a 1B1E. A 2-3B RA would make the Hero too valuable!

#5 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 04:37 AM

View PostHit the Deck, on 30 April 2016 - 04:32 AM, said:

I could agree with the 1M1B arms but not sure about a 1B1E. A 2-3B RA would make the Hero too valuable!


I donno. It already comes with a 3B LEFT arm, and 1B side torsos. How many ballistic hardpoints can one reasonably utilize, even with 37 tons of room? If anything, it just lets us make the mech more symmetrical. :P

Also, as I walked away, thought about this for a fun hero setup:

1B1E LA and RA
1M LT and RT
1M CT
1E HD

A ballistic missile hybrid, with a unique M CT.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 30 April 2016 - 04:38 AM.


#6 Hit the Deck

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 04:39 AM

View PostPariah Devalis, on 30 April 2016 - 04:37 AM, said:


I donno. It already comes with a 3B LEFT arm, and 1B side torsos. How many ballistic hardpoints can one reasonably utilize, even with 37 tons of room? If anything, it just lets us make the mech more symmetrical. Posted Image

Also, as I walked away, thought about this for a fun hero setup:

1B1E LA and RA
1M LT and RT
1M CT
1E HD

A ballistic missile hybrid, with a unique M CT.

The problem is not that it will be able to boat moar dakka but the Beta variant offers a 3E left arm!

My reasoning is that the Hero should offer alternative pods and not straight up upgrades but it's almost impossible looking at the available pods (except the 1M CT pod).

Edited by Hit the Deck, 30 April 2016 - 04:46 AM.


#7 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 04:40 AM

View PostHit the Deck, on 30 April 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

The problem is not that it will be able to boat moar dakka but the Beta variant offers a 3E left arm!


... exactly. So what's the problem with a 3B right arm option, again?

Misread it. Still not sure it's an issue. That's a lot of eggs to put in one basket that way.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 30 April 2016 - 04:41 AM.


#8 Hit the Deck

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 04:48 AM

View PostPariah Devalis, on 30 April 2016 - 04:40 AM, said:


... exactly. So what's the problem with a 3B right arm option, again?

Misread it. Still not sure it's an issue. That's a lot of eggs to put in one basket that way.

I don't want the Night Gyr to be even more powerful if you have the Hero. If you give it a 3B RA, then it can boat dakka AND lazor! But it's kinda hard to do with OmniMechs, especially with the A, B, C, D omnipods on the Gyr.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 30 April 2016 - 04:50 AM.


#9 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 04:57 AM

View PostHit the Deck, on 30 April 2016 - 04:48 AM, said:

I don't want the Night Gyr to be even more powerful if you have the Hero. If you give it a 3B RA, then it can boat dakka AND lazor! But it's kinda hard to do with OmniMechs, especially with the A, B, C, D omnipods on the Gyr.


I mean, it comes back to "how much can you fit?" Let's say we went triple UAC5. With ammo, at minimum, we're talking about 28 tons dedicated to that. 9 tons remaining, you slap on two ERLLas (ew) and one additional DHS (which would be toasty), or you slap on 4 or 5 ERMLas and a couple DHS to keep those lasers cool. After all, it only comes with 12 DHS. You already have 4E between the side torsos, head, and CT, so you don't actually need the energy arm. You could go with 2UAC10 and 6 tons of ammo, but that's still 26 tons used, and if you wanted additional energy weapons you might as well stick those UAC in the high side torso mounts anyways, freeing up both arms for energy, and making the existence of imbalanced energy arm options moot.

The lack of base DHS and the extreme lack of free critical space means energy hardpoints are a lot less valuable in the mech than it seems at first blush.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 30 April 2016 - 04:58 AM.


#10 Widowmaker1981

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 04:57 AM

how about the Hero having a 1-2E RA with a lower arm actuator option? Its a minor thing but it would be nice for some

#11 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 05:12 AM

View PostWidowmaker1981, on 30 April 2016 - 04:57 AM, said:

how about the Hero having a 1-2E RA with a lower arm actuator option? Its a minor thing but it would be nice for some


Was about to make this exact suggestion.

A lower arm actuator would be interesting to have since the Night Gyr doesn't have any LAAs.

On a side note though, according to the concept art the arms are at a decent height, not far below the cockpit really. Very thankful we didn't get knuckle draggers.

#12 Wintersdark

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 06:38 AM

I'd love to see a 325xl CT. That's totally possible, after all, and would actually make the Hero CT unique.

#13 Hit the Deck

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 06:49 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 30 April 2016 - 06:38 AM, said:

I'd love to see a 325xl CT. That's totally possible, after all, and would actually make the Hero CT unique.

If they do that then HBS can't use the Hero. Or they must modify the 'Mech before implementing it into the game.

#14 Widowmaker1981

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 06:57 AM

View PostHit the Deck, on 30 April 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

If they do that then HBS can't use the Hero. Or they must modify the 'Mech before implementing it into the game.


No, HBS just uses the 3D models, nothing else. Would make no difference whatsoever to HBS.

They also definitely will not do it, would make the Hero too much of a must have, and would cause enormous rage, since its an impossible engine for a 75 ton Omnimech.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 30 April 2016 - 06:57 AM.


#15 Intrepid

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 07:08 AM

View PostHit the Deck, on 29 April 2016 - 09:51 PM, said:

What configuration could it have?

IMO, an engine limit increase would be welcome on this 'Mech so make the Hero able to equip a 325 rated engine (75.5 kph with tweak)!

EDIT: durr, I forgot that this is an OmniMech......

Had they been smart with the Medusa they would have changed the engine. That is the easiest way to differentiate a Hero Omni.

In the Lore (not that it matters to PGI Posted Image) there are personal Omnis with different engines and other non-standard configurations.

#16 Alan Davion

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 07:16 AM

View PostHit the Deck, on 30 April 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

If they do that then HBS can't use the Hero. Or they must modify the 'Mech before implementing it into the game.

View PostWidowmaker1981, on 30 April 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:


No, HBS just uses the 3D models, nothing else. Would make no difference whatsoever to HBS.

They also definitely will not do it, would make the Hero too much of a must have, and would cause enormous rage, since its an impossible engine for a 75 ton Omnimech.


HBS isn't having anything to do with the Clans right now. Their BT game is strictly IS, strictly 3025 tech.

#17 C E Dwyer

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 07:53 AM

View PostHit the Deck, on 30 April 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

If they do that then HBS can't use the Hero. Or they must modify the 'Mech before implementing it into the game.

Since when has clan been part of HBS's plans ? closest I've seen has been a slim chance of the pentagon wars in maybe the third release of the game assuming the 3025 and the one after it generate enough cash, or maybe crowd funded again like shadow run Hong Kong was

They've already said that Clans v IS is virtually impossible to balance in a 4v4 situation, while keeping the clans canon

Edited by Cathy, 30 April 2016 - 07:57 AM.


#18 Wintersdark

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 08:26 AM

View PostHit the Deck, on 30 April 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

If they do that then HBS can't use the Hero. Or they must modify the 'Mech before implementing it into the game.


HBS is 3025.

HBS is just using the art

This is a hero. They really, really don't need to worry about specifics in hero compatibility, for a mech based many years in the future with from a faction they don't use in a game that's entirely different.

All in all, none of these complaints comes anywhere near a reasonable con for having a hero with a different engine.

If the Hero CT had an extra E hardpoint, that would be no different in terms of "making the Hero a must have" - after all, want to run a Stalker with ballistics? A Kodiak with MASC?

Its OK for a hero to have equipment you can't get elsewhere.

A 325 engine would make the Hero unique, but at a cost: it'd have less available pod space as a result. Larger engines aren't flatly better, or the Timberwolf's would simply be a better mech by default.



#19 FupDup

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 09:04 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 30 April 2016 - 06:38 AM, said:

I'd love to see a 325xl CT. That's totally possible, after all, and would actually make the Hero CT unique.

That would only be possible if PGI converted the Night Gyr to be a Battlemech instead of an Omnimech. If the NG remains as an Omnimech, it's not possible.

Besides, that would make the hero CT be "superior" instead of just "unique," given the greater speed and agility on a mech that will likely be sub-par in both categories by default. The extra weight isn't much of a downside since you have 38 tons of pod space default and a famine of critslots. It would be especially superior if it could fit a 3rd DHS in the new slot from the bigger engine...

#20 Wintersdark

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 10:13 AM

View PostFupDup, on 30 April 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

That would only be possible if PGI converted the Night Gyr to be a Battlemech instead of an Omnimech. If the NG remains as an Omnimech, it's not possible.
How do you figure it's not possible? It's just a different engine rating, it's entirely possible.

Hero mechs are, by definition, "one of a kind" special variants.

Quote


Besides, that would make the hero CT be "superior" instead of just "unique," given the greater speed and agility on a mech that will likely be sub-par in both categories by default. The extra weight isn't much of a downside since you have 38 tons of pod space default and a famine of critslots. It would be especially superior if it could fit a 3rd DHS in the new slot from the bigger engine...
it couldn't fit another DHS, because Omnimech engine DHS slots are locked.

Whether a 325 is flat out better or not is subjective. I refer again to my timberwolf comment: is the timberwolf simply better due to its 375?

And by "better" do you mean "better for current meta builds" or "simply better, always?"

It's not a P2W issue, as its just a different engine size, and not a particularly large difference.

Edited by Wintersdark, 30 April 2016 - 10:20 AM.






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