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Please Stop Doing Town Halls

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#41 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 01:49 PM

View PostAdamski, on 01 May 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:


Odd, when people mentioned that Russ actually listened to you on Twitter, YOU said that the best way to get him to listen to them too was to Agree & Like & Retweet lots of his posts and keep tweeting complements at him until he follows them, then you can start actually bringing up issues (in 140 characters or less).

So, no, I don't like that playing the part of online sycophant until you gain access is an appropriate channel for game feedback.


I did? Do tell. Please post some links to that.

I'll be waiting.

#42 Milocinia

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 02:06 PM

View PostJimmy DiGriz, on 01 May 2016 - 05:49 AM, said:

No one forces us to watch them. If Russ wants to do them and NGNGTV are happy to host, let them be.

NGNG seem to be remarkably happy with everything that PGI does. Funny that.

#43 ScarecrowES

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 05:43 PM

I'm so torn on this. I think a proper townhall would be the absolute best way for the community and PGI to get together for a sort of "state of the game" address and for a real, honest feedback session between us and them.

On the other hand, townhalls as they've actually been done are completely pointless. What little information we actually get out of them could be done in a 1-page text document and a mech announcement page on the website. Most everything is already covered in the monthly roadmap anyway. The townhalls are completely redundant as a way to pass down the sort of inconsequential information we get. And every month Russ just seems to get more and more frustrated with the process... and I share that feeling too... as every month is a wasted opportunity.

What I'd have liked to see...

Introduction:
  • Welcomes and idle chit-chat
  • Introduction of a special guest dev pertinent to any particular topics the townhall will cover (this should be a rotating roster).
First Segment:
  • Announcements
  • Review of the monthly roadmap
  • General state of the game, including features in development and the feature queue.
  • Introduction of the monthly Community Feedback discussion
Second Segment:
  • Community Feedback discussion. One specific topic is chosen to discuss. This may include existing or upcoming features, specific balance concerns, etc. The topic will have been preselected and announced in advance, so that NGNG can receive specific community feedback regarding that topic to discuss. Ideally, a small panel of community members (pre-selected) can act as a voice for the community at large, while the rest can chime in on the chat window. The special PGI guest for that month should have a direct area of expertise on this topic.
Third Segment:
  • Community Questions. A few preselected questions from the community on any topic. The questions will be drawn from those received by NGNG prior to the townhall. Specific attention to topics not already being discussed by the feedback topic or in the announcements/state of the game segment. Ideally these are questions designed to enlighten the community as to the process of developing the game, and the direction it is heading. These may also include specific concerns and suggestions for new features, or modifications to existing features. These questions will have answers that have been prepared by PGI prior to the townhall.
Fourth Segment:
  • Content Announcement. New mechs or maps with show-and-tell

Final Segment:
  • Audience Questions. Now is the time for the community in general chat to ask any random question they feel like. Chosen from the chat window by NGNG.
Outro:
  • Summaries
  • Various "thank you's" and glad-handing.
  • Tune in next time... G'bye.

Honestly... that's how I would set these townhalls up. More preparation and more direct interaction and feedback between developers and the community.

#44 Nightshade24

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 09:45 PM

View PostStaggerCheck, on 01 May 2016 - 05:46 AM, said:

Nightshade, I get the feeling that you didn't watch the stream chat while the Town Hall was going on. There were plenty of questions the NgNg guys could have gone with that were not repeat questions. Instead, they chose to repeat questions from previous Town Halls. Now, either they have been told specifically not to ask certain questions, or they lack memory skills from previous Town Halls. I'm not even talking about loaded questions, either. Straight up important information was being sought that had not been touched on before.

That is why I was frustrated. Might be my last Town Hall. I can find out the new Mech the next morning and not really miss anything of importance.

I often watch on youtube the townhall meetings but have seen a few live and if you asked me I am impressed they can even get the questions! A new comment just 1 second ago in a blink of an eye is already off screen and like 30 new comments are up.
It would really help if people just do not ask the same questions over and over, That filters out most of the garbage and leaves other comments up... next mech comments should also not be asked as Russ already stated he doesn't quite know much in the future, it highly depends and he personally wishes every mech that can make it to make it into the game at the end.

however problem here is for questions asking about updates... ie: "What's the status on information warfare?", "The Raptor is coming out for the Inner sphere? this is a significant mech as it just hit the time line availability this year and it's an omnimech. Great chance to make that 1:1 time scale come to life by adding mechs and tech that just come out!" etc...
They do pick some interesting questions though and there is something new each time that I learn from the TH's.

#45 LordKnightFandragon

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 10:22 PM

Less time in townhalls, more time making the game better.

#46 Lily from animove

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 01:24 AM

I like them, they are great, sure daytime is bad for EU's. But its a lot more of a personal way to interact with the community.

Sure soem things repeat, but time advances and often plans for the same things advances too and so theres always something new about it.

#47 SteelMantis

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 02:10 AM

I appreciate the town halls myself (although I am too busy to take part in them).

It's good to have devs make an extra effort to communicate with the players.

#48 Nightshade24

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 04:27 AM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 01 May 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

Honestly, I think Town Halls started out great. When they first started doing them, I became a lot more sympathetic with Russ and his point of view, especially explaining some of the choices they were forced to make because of IGP. They changed my views on a number of things. It was a lot better to hear him explain things with his own words than to read a Command Chair post.

But over time, a bunch of things have happened. For one thing, PGI has basically stopped interacting with their fans everywhere except [sporadically] on Twitter.. Secondly, from having a sincere and positive tone, Russ is sounding increasingly fed-up and bitter in his last Town Hall meetings. It now has the opposite effect of when he started. Instead of inspiring sympathy, he's now creating a sense of animosity, like "Oh, here we go with these pointless questions!" and "Oh, listen to these idiots who think they know how to make a game!"

It's really uncomfortable to listen to the awkward, tense dialogue. I don't think Town Halls are a bad idea, but they should definitely stop doing them, at this point. They seem painful for everyone involved.

Russ has a lot off stress down onto him... and repeating the same question over and over each town hall and responding to questions he already stated he can't answer (ie "can this be next mech?") does grind his gears.

However I do agree that it is getting a bit less sympathetic.

I do wish PGI improves players to dev (including artists, music, etc.) relations such as recently with the streams. But it's a bit heavy to ask for PGI... most of the people are back logged (ie the people who make skins. models, etc.) are quite busy doing there current task... would be better if we have well... more community managers. Having just one is great and all but more the merrier... I wounder if there will ever be a time where PGI doesn't have like 2 years of back-logged stuff to do.

#49 hoxxie1156

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 05:33 AM

CD Projekt RED started with 20 guys out of a ragged building, and made the Witcher one with a shoe string budget.

No need to explain how awesome that game company is.

I have no sympathy for Game companies. Good games, and good customer communication and service go hand in hand.

There are no excuses anymore in the game industry, to lack any customer service or polish on your game.

#50 Mister Blastman

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 05:54 AM

View Posthoxxie1156, on 02 May 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

CD Projekt RED started with 20 guys out of a ragged building, and made the Witcher one with a shoe string budget.

No need to explain how awesome that game company is.

I have no sympathy for Game companies. Good games, and good customer communication and service go hand in hand.

There are no excuses anymore in the game industry, to lack any customer service or polish on your game.


They also made and sold a complete game for a one-time purchase and on top of that, released an enhanced edition upgrade that added a ton more free content a year later, too! CD Projekt is awesome and knows how to earn and love their customers.

#51 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 06:09 AM

@hoxxie1156 Indeed. I will weep if CD ever reaches a point where they get blizzard or ea syndrome and the bean counters begin telling the programmers what to do. I still look back at Ultima 9 from Origin and realize just how far a great series can tumble.

#52 Lily from animove

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 06:59 AM

View Posthoxxie1156, on 02 May 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:


There are no excuses anymore in the game industry, to lack any customer service or polish on your game.


buisness models are the excuse.

design a game, hype a game, sell it, redo. No one cares about the game itself. Thats an EXTREMELY well working business model the standard Asia MMO's do.

View PostTom Sawyer, on 02 May 2016 - 06:09 AM, said:

@hoxxie1156 Indeed. I will weep if CD ever reaches a point where they get blizzard or ea syndrome and the bean counters begin telling the programmers what to do. I still look back at Ultima 9 from Origin and realize just how far a great series can tumble.


you make games for gamers, now ask yourself which one made more gamers happy, WoW or ultima 9?

#53 Cappy

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 07:52 AM

View PostLily from animove, on 02 May 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:


buisness models are the excuse.

design a game, hype a game, sell it, redo. No one cares about the game itself. Thats an EXTREMELY well working business
model the standard Asia MMO's do.


yeah... Worked well in Asia. All those f2p asian mmo's are really blowing up western markets in 2016. /s


Quote

you make games for gamers, now ask yourself which one made more gamers happy, WoW or ultima 9?



Ultima was made at a time when online gaming was barely viable and gaming as a whole was far more socially stigmatized. This is a deeply silly comparison. Furthermore, WoW was a game made for gamers that became increasingly unpopular as it was streamlined and dumbed down. Are you suggesting singleplayer RPG's no longer have a place in the market? Because, you know, there was this little game called The Witcher 3 that was a "modest" success....

I don't even really understand what you are trying to suggest? That one game was "made for gamers" and the other was not? What? Clearly both games were made for gamers. One being more popular than the other is purely incidental. There is no other game as popular as WoW, no other MMo even comes close despite the giant slowly dying. There are markedly fewer MMO's being made precisely because it is a market dominated by a handful of games.

Edited by Cappy, 02 May 2016 - 08:04 AM.


#54 Mechwarrior1441491

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 08:50 AM

Puff feel good pieces without any meat. Curious if there will be a Q&A at MechCon or if they will hide and shy away from any meaningful dialogue from their customers.

Note: the people who ask those questions and choose them owe PGI for everything they do. NGNG is a stooge for the game, we all know it. Plastering the devs with real questions was never what Town Halls were about.

Edited by GAGONMYlOCK, 02 May 2016 - 08:52 AM.


#55 Barantor

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 08:59 AM

View PostAdamski, on 01 May 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

It is the same reason many reporters don't ask politicians tough questions, if they do, then the politicians stop doing interviews with them and claim media bias.

NGNG wont ask tough questions, because it would jeopardize their status and access and ability to do these Town Halls. Thus the Town Halls become a meandering over long press release.

NGNG aren't accountable to the player-base at all, and have no reason to advocate anything that they aren't already interested in.


Which is why PGI should either buy/integrate NGNG fully and make it a part of their advertising/media arm or not use them at all. I have nothing against the guys at NGNG, but when you have this sort of monopoly with one entity it becomes like how Fox News is with the Republican party, something of a soundboard for that entity rather than actual reporting media.

I would rather them use Tina and the streaming they have been doing for something like the "Town Halls" rather than their current format.

They do a lot of streaming from their company, but Russ seems reticent to use that for announcements as much as he is reticent to use these forums as an interaction source.

If you look at HBS and HyperRPG, that is how you get folks hyped about Battletech, Mechwarrior and everything about this IP, not by having tired interviews with soft punch questions while ignoring a section of your company's media.

View PostCappy, on 02 May 2016 - 07:52 AM, said:

yeah... Worked well in Asia. All those f2p asian mmo's are really blowing up western markets in 2016. /s


Which is how this game was basically modeled. Paul did learn a lot of things from Nexon.

#56 Tordin

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 09:21 AM

Please do more town halls! Why do everyone expect massive content each time? Any idea how much stuff they are working on. I know how "stressed out" feels, trying to make everything to work. Some gratitude towards PGI and of course constructive critism would do it.
Now, I have no clue what PGI have in their minds for MWO, but they cant mash every single good idea form their or our side and expect to make it work.
It will take dedication, experimentation, setbacks, baby steps and so on. This kind of game is in progress all the time. You did expect that when you as a pilot/ member signed up right? Not dumbstruck or blind?
No matter which game, setting high exceptations on wrong foundation can make your head explode of distrust and disappointment. Precautions

Its not a single player game with a few DLC and patches, no, its an ongoing progress made by 65 people at PGI (judging by wikipedia). Heck it might not be even all of those 65 working on it either.
They simply might "ignore" us to test out their ideas or some kind of us/ them hybrid ideas out first. Only time will tell how all this will work out.

THOUGH! More brave interraction with us the community would be nice, besides Town Halls, if you got time PGI. It might look its only piranhas on the forums but not all will skin you alive, give Tina more time with us and some other folks, it would be nice to hear from you more often.

Im not a blind loyalist, not even a salty veteran either. Just trying to be an open minded, middle ground pilot. With constructive critism and trying to understand each and every side, PGI or Community. And thats sure is an interesting hobby.

I might be babbling, but thats because I havent had time to make coffee yet! Posted Image

Edited by Tordin, 02 May 2016 - 09:23 AM.


#57 Adamski

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 11:05 AM

That's fine, babbling with no content is what Town Halls are all about.

#58 STEF_

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 11:27 AM

I just leave this here

https://community.ba...s/categories/25


17 pages of ppl asking and devs answering.
just saying.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 02 May 2016 - 11:28 AM.


#59 Adamski

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 12:04 PM

View PostStefka Kerensky, on 02 May 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

I just leave this here

https://community.ba...s/categories/25


17 pages of ppl asking and devs answering.
just saying.


Its not like players told PGI that they needed to standardize Tonnage to Volume way back in 2012.

PGI has lightning fast response times.

#60 C E Dwyer

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 12:34 PM

I'd rather they printed it all here, twice now I've listend to three hours of town hall to be told look here is the next mech, and of the rest only 5% was of actual use.

I could just as easily read it in 15 minutes and feel happier about another non event.





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