63 replies to this topic

[Natural Predator]

Tronword Furey, on 02 May 2016 - 12:09 AM, said:

You misrepresent your Touman and unit Ragnar, has Clan Ghost Bear fallen to open whining against the filthy IS? Focus on scouting before launching an open attack. No one among the Clans should have to brief you on this. If you need a reminder of our aggression, tactics, techniques and procedures, I will gladly remind you in the Circle of Equals.


-Oathmaster Tronword Furey

A bull **** answer. Not everyone can play this game for 5 or 6 hours at a clip. Figure at most you can keep a 12 man going for 3 hours. If I have to spend half that time taking down the longtime and only get 1-3 drops with my unit members how does that progress us as a team. Its not Whining its common sense.

Lily from animove, on 02 May 2016 - 02:52 AM, said:

scout harder, scouting is now an essential part of the game to either deinal Long Toms or to get access to it.





that means FW now rquires more than just invasion, it requires also preparation. And if your pilots aren't complete derps you can make split into 3x4 and scout the long toms away, then go to invasion.

Yes but the time commitment to scouting means less 12 man team game time. Which means to build a unit of 12 man warriors i have to spend less time now working as a team. Instead I have to break up into 3, 4 man teams and it means I am getting less "Lets work on our teamwork" with the full company. Not all of us have 6 hours a night to play 12 mans. Commons sense should prevail.

Edited by Ragnar Baron Leiningen, 02 May 2016 - 10:35 AM.

[shameless]

I was in a match last night against mostly unorganized players, part of a twelve man. We had LongTom on our side. We honestly warned the enemy team about the lethality of Long Tom, and they ignored it. In it's first shot it killed 7 pristine mechs
I literally stood atop a building on Vitric and watched it happen. In that match the Long Tom killed 17 of the 48 enemy mechs (and 3 of ours) It isn't so much the damage, it's the fact that it only targets the head seemingly, and is inescapable save in a light or fast medium.

[DevlinCognito]

.. or split off 4 to go scout while the other 8 work together to learn teamwork, maybe pick up a couple of solos who you can maybe recruit if they show potential making your unit larger and helping the Faction by showing puggles the benefits of teamwork.

Adapt and overcome.

[Natural Predator]

DevlinCognito, on 02 May 2016 - 11:22 AM, said:

.. or split off 4 to go scout while the other 8 work together to learn teamwork, maybe pick up a couple of solos who you can maybe recruit if they show potential making your unit larger and helping the Faction by showing puggles the benefits of teamwork.

Adapt and overcome.

If we want to run 12 mans as a group, we should be able to run 12 mans without and arbitrary god hammer taking out half the company for no other reason than 4 mans need something to do. Running 4 man drops is what quick play is for. Faction warfare is supposed to be about running your company together.

[RebJohhny]

when you see longtom on enemy team you just dont play FW and go play elsewhere. I see so many planets now where there is only teams on one side or much more on one side than other and you know this is where the longtom is.

longtom is stupidist thing pgi put in game, way to ruin factions warfare.

[Appogee]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 30 April 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

Anyone who knows me and those within our Unit knows I hate excuses. But the long tom feature is absolutely ridiculous. Short cool down huge range. The only way to avoid it is to force a brawl

What nonsense.

Scout more.

Long Tom gives teams a reason to Scout. It's fine, bordering on magnificent.

Incidentally, yesterday my team won a match attacking Boreal where the defending Clanners had Long Tom. This was unusual ... because enemies aren't usually that derpy, and my team usually Scouts down the threat of Long Tom before we Invade.

But whatever.

Scout more.

Edited by Appogee, 02 May 2016 - 01:09 PM.

[RebJohhny]

lawl played a game where someone said enemy team had longtom, both sides were pugs, then 3 of our players disconnected before the enemy came in the gate and never returned, good job pgi, longtom just ruins the game

Edited by RebJohhny, 02 May 2016 - 01:26 PM.

[AnimeFreak40K]

dervishx5, on 02 May 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

Lily from animove, on 02 May 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

there isn't enough people that would play the mode on a beta test server. therefoe the live server will funtioning as such.

Which is incredibly dense and only serves to piss off the existing playerbase. Poor business model.

What part of 'There isn't enough people' did you not comprehend?

No, seriously, I want you to re-read that initial sentence from Lily. Then read it again...slowly this time and one more time, but this time read it out loud.

On one hand, I kinda feel bad for talking down to you... but on the other hand, it seems that you failed to grasp the part about THERE AREN'T ENOUGH PEOPLE FOR PROPER TESTING! It doesn't matter if you have the server space or have to charge for it... not enough people means NOT. ENOUGH. PEOPLE!

I mean, if there were enough people playing this game at any given time for proper testing on a beta server such that PGI could gather the requisite data needed to make the proper changes, I am VERY certain that they would do so! However, when one has a very limited population in the first place, what other option do they have other than to push it out and see what happens?

Akillius, on 02 May 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

Anyway, what really needs pointing out is that scouting is not for everyone because:
- Scout pilots need to really like lights or medium mechs
- Like dropping in uber light/medium mech builds to hunt/defend-defeat similar mechs, and be/get good at shooting lights.
- Must like quick drops because scouting really similar feel/play style to quick drops.

While I see where you're coming from here, I am going to have to disagree. You don't have to like Lights and Mediums, you just have to be willing to give them a try. You have to be willing to see what others are doing, experiment and play around a bit. I say this because I *REALLY* hate Medium mechs as a general thing. I have never really found a proper play style with them that works well for me such that I would be willing to bring one into Public Queue (or FW if I can help it). And Lights, as a general thing, are right there behind the Mediums (but only just). I generally prefer Assaults and Heavies. They suit my play style nicely and I can make them work.

The reason why I point this out is because I found that I actually *really* enjoy scouting. I have found that I'm playing mechs that have been collecting dust for years and I'm really enjoying them. For me, it's a really nice change in things and frankly, I'm thankful for it.

This being said, I think what helps is a bit of a different mindset in both playing and in building mechs than what is needed for Pub Queue or FW.

[M T]

Is this a CW thing? never heard of long tom lol.

[Natural Predator]

Appogee, on 02 May 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

What nonsense.

Scout more.

Long Tom gives teams a reason to Scout. It's fine, bordering on magnificent.

Incidentally, yesterday my team won a match attacking Boreal where the defending Clanners had Long Tom. This was unusual ... because enemies aren't usually that derpy, and my team usually Scouts down the threat of Long Tom before we Invade.

But whatever.

Scout more.

No what is nonsense is not being able to do 12 mans because an arbitray god hammer comes and wins the match for the other team without any type of skill involved. What is nonsense is that I ask for 12 peoples time to come do FW. And I have to ask them to break off into groups of 4 just so we MIGHT have a chance to 12 man drop later. Whats nonsense is your belief that everyone can spend 6 hours a night just to make sure they have the right conditions so when our players can get on for 12 man that they are not wasting their time. If Long tom mechanic creates a condition in which teams can win without any sort of skill whatsoever its a bad mechanic and a game killer.

Ill say this to everyone. Scout MORE man is not the answer to this. Removing a broken tool is.

Edited by Ragnar Baron Leiningen, 02 May 2016 - 03:45 PM.

[MovinTarget]

So if i understand the OP correctly, he wants others to do the scouting for his 12 man. I get that LT is OP for some, but his reason for not scouting is that his players don't have the time to scout AND drop as a twelve man.

So he isn't really saying that LT is OP, what he is really saying is that we all need to do a better job scouting for him...

Considering I've been in matches where we beat the opponent when they had LT, all i can say is that if you can't scout harder, try harder.

[Natural Predator]

MovinTarget, on 02 May 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

So if i understand the OP correctly, he wants others to do the scouting for his 12 man. I get that LT is OP for some, but his reason for not scouting is that his players don't have the time to scout AND drop as a twelve man.

So he isn't really saying that LT is OP, what he is really saying is that we all need to do a better job scouting for him...

Considering I've been in matches where we beat the opponent when they had LT, all i can say is that if you can't scout harder, try harder.

No what I am saying is that scouting has its place, but the long tom should not be a god hammer reward for it. Let me enlighten you to a best business practice. Don't put your product in a position to take away choice from your customer.

Edited by Ragnar Baron Leiningen, 02 May 2016 - 04:12 PM.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 30 April 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

Anyone who knows me and those within our Unit knows I hate excuses. But the long tom feature is absolutely ridiculous. Short cool down huge range. The only way to avoid it is to force a brawl which clan mechs do not excel at. The long tom is killing the game for me and our CW group. We lost 9 mechs last night before they even pushed in. Its an absolute joke. GBKP will now no longer drop Faction play if the long tom is enabled. Congrats on killing faction play. Playing clan is almost unplayable these days. And since somebody is gonna ask, I average of 1800 damage a game. GOOD GAME PGI

I think PGI caved too early to the whining.

The long tom was a fantastic feature that added a layer of thinking into CW instead of just "drop, drop drop". It forced units to break apart their 12 mans and have to scout, instead of always just attacking. You couldn't advance on a planet without neutralizing the long tom in scout mode.

Also facing a long tom was a fantastic strategic bonus to units that are coordinated enough to make it work. Google NS videos from Day 1 of the long tom.

Taking the long tom away took away that thinking from invasion mode. Thanks whiners.

tldr THINKING IS HARD

Edited by Telemachus Rheade, 02 May 2016 - 04:19 PM.

[Natural Predator]

Telemachus Rheade, on 02 May 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

I think PGI caved too early to the whining.

The long tom was a fantastic feature that added a layer of thinking into CW instead of just "drop, drop drop". It forced units to break apart their 12 mans and have to scout, instead of always just attacking. You couldn't advance on a planet without neutralizing the long tom in scout mode.

Also facing a long tom was a fantastic strategic bonus to units that are coordinated enough to make it work. Google NS videos from Day 1 of the long tom.

Taking the long tom away took away that thinking from invasion mode. Thanks whiners.

tldr THINKING IS HARD

Telemachus I have played with you and against you both in unit drops and quick play. Ive hung out in your channel and have a ton of respect for you guys. But your just wrong on this.

You cant create a set of conditions that basically take away the 12 man aspect of the game. I know you DERP guys play a ton together and a great players but my until is mostly grown adults. Friday nights 3 hours and Saturday night 4 hours or so Is about all we got for 12 man drops. I fully embrace the idea that scout missions have a tangible benefit to the invasion. But I don't condone an artillery base that essential decide the match. Its silly and eliminates skill for the game.

[MovinTarget]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 02 May 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

No what I am saying is that scouting has its place, but the long tom should not be a god hammer reward for it. Let me enlighten you to a best business practice. Don't put your product in a position to take away choice from your customer.

They are nerfing the damage, again, but what i am trying to point out is that while we all take time out to do scouting, you and you team can't be bothered with it.

Scouting adds some depth to the game play. Depth that was really needed. This is supposed to be community warfare where actions impact map/gameplay/etc. While there may be a lot of things that they didn't get right in cw3, pgi tried to give us that.

Unless you rally you Bear Bros to do some scouting, you'll be stuck doing 12 man drops under the gun... literally...

Thanks for enlightening me, but as i have stated before, LT can be overcome , even against its owner.

Those that do not do not adapt are doomed to become salamis...

soldanas...?

Su mamas?

/shrug, you get the idea...

Edited by MovinTarget, 02 May 2016 - 04:39 PM.

[pwnface]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 02 May 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

If we want to run 12 mans as a group, we should be able to run 12 mans without and arbitrary god hammer taking out half the company for no other reason than 4 mans need something to do. Running 4 man drops is what quick play is for. Faction warfare is supposed to be about running your company together.

If you are running a 12 man group in Invasion and can't figure out how to deal with Long Toms you really only have yourself to blame. It's an incredibly easy mechanic to either mitigate or turn to your own advantage.

Less QQ more PEWPEW!

[dervishx5]

AnimeFreak40K, on 02 May 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

What part of 'There isn't enough people' did you not comprehend?

Says who? PGI? Don't make me laugh.

[Natural Predator]

MovinTarget, on 02 May 2016 - 04:38 PM, said:

They are nerfing the damage, again, but what i am trying to point out is that while we all take time out to do scouting, you and you team can't be bothered with it.

Scouting adds some depth to the game play. Depth that was really needed. This is supposed to be community warfare where actions impact map/gameplay/etc. While there may be a lot of things that they didn't get right in cw3, pgi tried to give us that.

Unless you rally you Bear Bros to do some scouting, you'll be stuck doing 12 man drops under the gun... literally...

Thanks for enlightening me, but as i have stated before, LT can be overcome , even against its owner.

Those that do not do not adapt are doomed to become salamis...

soldanas...?

Su mamas?

/shrug, you get the idea...

No you don't understand. If you create the conditions that 12 mans are untenable then you wont have anyone to play with because everyone will quit. If teams want to scout they should be able to scout, if teams want to 12 man in Faction warfare they should be able to 12 man. I am not saying that their shouldnt be a benefit to it but it shouldn't be 10 mechs killed before the other team comes through the door

[MovinTarget]

Sigh

I am not the only one telling you that 12 mans can not only tread water, but win vs LT...

But you have decided that this is "untenable" despite evidence and testimony to the contrary. Units like 228, NS, and many others have realized that playing "return to sender" makes for additional challenges and fun. Look for the videos on youtube if you don't know how it works.

If anything, the LT has been nerfed because people haven't learned how to use it to their advantage. The enemy has more abilty to aim LT than its owner.

But its clear you have decided want you want and are not interested in adapting so i am done here.

[Quaamik]

AnimeFreak40K, on 02 May 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

..... THERE AREN'T ENOUGH PEOPLE FOR PROPER TESTING! ...........

Then don't deploy potentially game breaking code.

Honestly now. The player base will argue endlessly about how a 200 m/s bump in speed or 2 point reduction in heat to ERPPCs will ruin the game, and PGI listens, but they can't figure out that a 700 point damage ball over half a kilometer across that headshots mechs would cause problems?

You don't need to playtest code to figure that out - you just need to try playing the game like you enjoy it.


The scout mode is a great idea. The rewards should be high enough to make teams and PuGs want to play in it. But the Long Tom isn't it.

There are a lot of things they could give as powerful rewards that would enhance game play. Further enhanced sensor coverage. Dropship delays (call it fighter harassment). Added turrets on the defenders side (possibly outside the gates). Blowing the gates on the attackers side (and possibly some / all of the turrets). Minefields to deny certain attack paths or defensive areas. A 30 second to 1 minute "head start" for one side on initial drop.

All those add to immersive gameplay.

The Long Tom? After the initial awe of what you could gain your team wears of, its something most don't want to play with. Yes, an organized team, or a group of PuGs that listen to a leader and can follow strategy, can counter it. But its not enjoyable, and it has nothing to do with the MechWarrior type of gameplay.

Edited by Quaamik, 02 May 2016 - 05:44 PM.