63 replies to this topic

[Terrur Of Death]

So from my opinion the long time is not the problem lazyness is the problem if you want a world you are actually going to have to take effort for that world which can include getting some help from other players in a 12 man and want to take a planet by yourselves?? chances are that will probably never happen unless people just completely stop playing. Scouting is an old part of warfare. Sure its rough having that artillery blast someones face off but if you have 12 people and dont want to scout then simply attack a different planet instead of crying about how you got rolled by a game mechanic that was setup to try and force players to actually EARN the MC from a planet. Remember the artillery goes both ways the attackers or the defenders either one can have it so perhaps people should be thanking players that do the scouting drops instead of complaining about it simply because they don't want to have something different to worry about.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Quaamik, on 02 May 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:

Then don't deploy potentially game breaking code.

You do realize that is the point of testing, right? To see if it breaks anything? So how does one expect something to be good, bad, awesome, terrible, game-breaking if it's not tested?

Quaamik, on 02 May 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:

but they can't figure out that a 700 point damage ball over half a kilometer across that headshots mechs would cause problems? You don't need to playtest code to figure that out

If you had been paying attention to some of the comments (many of them snide and condescending), or read up on what was going on with the Long Tom from PGI, you would realize that the introduction of the Long Tom exposed problems with the coding, specifically artillery and air-strikes. These problems were buried in the code and nobody knew that they existed (or if they did, not where or how to fix it) until the Long Tom was implemented.

The way I understand it, the Long Tom uses the same code as the Arty and Air strikes, just larger (both in size and damage), and it is in that base code that is causing the problems. Now, if 3 years of using this code didn't point to any problems, how was PGI (or anybody for that matter) to know that something was broken?

Quaamik, on 02 May 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:

The Long Tom? After the initial awe of what you could gain your team wears of, its something most don't want to play with.

You do realize that folks have been asking for the Long Tom in some degree (either facetiously or in all seriousness) for some time, right? I really do wonder if people realize that FW 3 and all that it entails is exactly what this community asked for...

(note, there is a HUGE difference between 'want' and 'asked', because quite frequently folks get what they ask for...but what they asked for is not what they wanted)

[Natural Predator]

MovinTarget, on 02 May 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:

Sigh

I am not the only one telling you that 12 mans can not only tread water, but win vs LT...

But you have decided that this is "untenable" despite evidence and testimony to the contrary. Units like 228, NS, and many others have realized that playing "return to sender" makes for additional challenges and fun. Look for the videos on youtube if you don't know how it works.

If anything, the LT has been nerfed because people haven't learned how to use it to their advantage. The enemy has more abilty to aim LT than its owner.

But its clear you have decided want you want and are not interested in adapting so i am done here.

your right I am not listening to what your saying because I don't believe its true. If you beat the long tom on invasion, good for you guys, doesn't mean its not a ****** mechanic and will push people away from FW and possibly the game. I want to play FW straight up against my opponent and if his skill is better than mine and he beats me mech on mech so be it, gg. But I wont do, nor will our unit, play a game where we lost 2-4 mechs due to an ability that requires no skill and is only predicated on zerging 4 mans for hours at a time just so we can maybe 12 man in a straight up fight. Good luck playing yourselves if half the game population leaves because you want to hold onto a broken mechanic

Edited by Ragnar Baron Leiningen, 02 May 2016 - 06:25 PM.

[Natural Predator]

Terrur Of Death, on 02 May 2016 - 05:58 PM, said:

So from my opinion the long time is not the problem lazyness is the problem if you want a world you are actually going to have to take effort for that world which can include getting some help from other players in a 12 man and want to take a planet by yourselves?? chances are that will probably never happen unless people just completely stop playing. Scouting is an old part of warfare. Sure its rough having that artillery blast someones face off but if you have 12 people and dont want to scout then simply attack a different planet instead of crying about how you got rolled by a game mechanic that was setup to try and force players to actually EARN the MC from a planet. Remember the artillery goes both ways the attackers or the defenders either one can have it so perhaps people should be thanking players that do the scouting drops instead of complaining about it simply because they don't want to have something different to worry about.

No thanks. Give me a straight up mech on mech fight. No long tom needed. If you beat my guys because your kit is better or your pilots are better than gg to you. But if you beat me because an artillery strike kills 12 of my mechs based on no skill or ability on your part. I say thats no game worth participating in. I don't give a rip about taking planets. i just want good even platform fights that match skill on skill that I can utilize my 12 man team.

[Veev]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 30 April 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

Anyone who knows me and those within our Unit knows I hate excuses. But the long tom feature is absolutely ridiculous. Short cool down huge range. The only way to avoid it is to force a brawl which clan mechs do not excel at. The long tom is killing the game for me and our CW group. We lost 9 mechs last night before they even pushed in. Its an absolute joke. GBKP will now no longer drop Faction play if the long tom is enabled. Congrats on killing faction play. Playing clan is almost unplayable these days. And since somebody is gonna ask, I average of 1800 damage a game. GOOD GAME PGI

WTF, Clan mechs not excel at brawling?!?!?!? I must've missed that somewhere...

[Natural Predator]

Veev, on 02 May 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

WTF, Clan mechs not excel at brawling?!?!?!? I must've missed that somewhere...

Were good at range 700 to 300 meters. Inside of that Inner sphere owns us with your better heat scaling and better alpha strikes.

[MovinTarget]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 02 May 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

your right I am not listening to what your saying because I don't believe its true. If you beat the long tom on invasion, good for you guys, doesn't mean its not a ****** mechanic and will push people away from FW and possibly the game. I want to play FW straight up against my opponent and if his skill is better than mine and he beats me mech on mech so be it, gg. But I wont do, nor will our unit, play a game where we lost 2-4 mechs due to an ability that requires no skill and is only predicated on zerging 4 mans for hours at a time just so we can maybe 12 man in a straight up fight. Good luck playing yourselves if half the game population leaves because you want to hold onto a broken mechanic

Okay, final post...

We are looking at this from different angles, you are scared to face it, I'd rather not have it because we can go against LT push comes to shove, but we don't want it b/c opponents chicken out b/c they won't learn to dodge it.

Do we win against it every single time? No, but if we drop against pugs, it makes it a real game instead of a seal clubbing at least. Not pugs? prepare for "return to sender" mode. And on that note, you can choose not to believe us that it can be used against the enemy, but then, that would be your own inflexibility.


It works.

Edited by MovinTarget, 02 May 2016 - 06:51 PM.

[Akillius]

Bah this Ragnar Baron Leiningen is just trolling all of us, many of us discussed this with good intent but now i'm subscribing from this can't-stand-any-changes whine-fest thread.

[Triordinant]

Not sure if anyone posted this on this thread yet: http://mwomercs.com/...ong-tom-damage/

[MovinTarget]

Triordinant, on 02 May 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

Not sure if anyone posted this on this thread yet: http://mwomercs.com/...ong-tom-damage/

I did mention it, but this guy is like a Dilberthian Manager... impervious to logic

[Carl Vickers]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 02 May 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

Were good at range 700 to 300 meters. Inside of that Inner sphere owns us with your better heat scaling and better alpha strikes.

Ummmm, SRM Timby says hi to brawls.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 02 May 2016 - 07:42 PM.

[Appogee]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 02 May 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

No what is nonsense is not being able to do 12 mans because an arbitray god hammer comes and wins the match for the other team without any type of skill involved.

It's not "arbitrary". It's entirely because you didn't scout enough and set up the win conditions. The "skill involved" is in winning the scouting first.

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 02 May 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

What is nonsense is that I ask for 12 peoples time to come do FW. And I have to ask them to break off into groups of 4 just so we MIGHT have a chance to 12 man drop later.

If you can't be bothered playing FW, which is the more advanced version of Mech warfare, then take your ADHD buddies and go play in the Quick Play Group Queue, where simple folk enjoy simple matches every 10 minutes.

Stop calling for valid mechanics in the complex form of the game to be nerfed, just so you don't have to deal with them.

I'd like to be able to run play a FP match on Boreal where I didn't need to face a half dozen Clanners spamming long range laser fire from the hill in their dropzone. However, I'm not calling on PGI to change the game just so that I can play it on my terms. I'm being flexible in dealing with it.

Edited by Appogee, 02 May 2016 - 10:22 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Oooooh yeah! And Vitric and and Sulphorous are MUCH too hot for my favorite clan builds, i want the ability to change the maps b/c i can't be bothered to change my mechs or learn to not alpha with laser vomit...


They should just get rig of Boreal, Vitric, and Sulphorous b/c they are too extreme...

Big stompy mech battles only ever occurred on rolling hill in pleasant weather...

/end sarcasm

Edited by MovinTarget, 03 May 2016 - 02:52 AM.

[Natural Predator]

MovinTarget, on 02 May 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

Okay, final post...

We are looking at this from different angles, you are scared to face it, I'd rather not have it because we can go against LT push comes to shove, but we don't want it b/c opponents chicken out b/c they won't learn to dodge it.

Do we win against it every single time? No, but if we drop against pugs, it makes it a real game instead of a seal clubbing at least. Not pugs? prepare for "return to sender" mode. And on that note, you can choose not to believe us that it can be used against the enemy, but then, that would be your own inflexibility.


It works.

Its not fear. Its common sense. Its valuing the time of my unit members who have jobs, kids, and lives outside of video games.

Akillius, on 02 May 2016 - 07:14 PM, said:

Bah this Ragnar Baron Leiningen is just trolling all of us, many of us discussed this with good intent but now i'm subscribing from this can't-stand-any-changes whine-fest thread.

I am not trolling anyone. I am simply stating that logically 80% of the players in this game are casual. Don't create mechanics that bar them from enjoying certain aspects of the game because they cant zerg scouting missions for hours at a time.

MovinTarget, on 02 May 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

I did mention it, but this guy is like a Dilberthian Manager... impervious to logic

The only illogical thing here is created a one shot death mechanic that is automatically fired like zues dropping thunderbolts from up on high. The only illogical thing, nerfed or not now, is to keep it in the game and drive people away from FW.

[Natural Predator]

Appogee, on 02 May 2016 - 10:17 PM, said:

It's not "arbitrary". It's entirely because you didn't scout enough and set up the win conditions. The "skill involved" is in winning the scouting first.

If you can't be bothered playing FW, which is the more advanced version of Mech warfare, then take your ADHD buddies and go play in the Quick Play Group Queue, where simple folk enjoy simple matches every 10 minutes.

Stop calling for valid mechanics in the complex form of the game to be nerfed, just so you don't have to deal with them.

I'd like to be able to run play a FP match on Boreal where I didn't need to face a half dozen Clanners spamming long range laser fire from the hill in their dropzone. However, I'm not calling on PGI to change the game just so that I can play it on my terms. I'm being flexible in dealing with it.

A stupid response. "Dont like FW play quick play" If you have nobody to play against what are you going to do? We should be making Faction warfare more entry friendly not less. Just look at the faction play general forum. Its littered with topics asking where all the faction players are? They all quit playing it. Do you want to wait 30 minutes a match? Also I don't know why you are baggin on my guys since the last time we ran into you we beat you. ADHD indeed.

We played 17 scout missions last night and won 15 of them. It didnt matter as the IS out zerged us and still enabled it. We got to do zero invasion matches because whoever else was doing it lost and lost hard.

Edited by Ragnar Baron Leiningen, 03 May 2016 - 05:21 AM.

[Natural Predator]

MovinTarget, on 03 May 2016 - 02:22 AM, said:

Oooooh yeah! And Vitric and and Sulphorous are MUCH too hot for my favorite clan builds, i want the ability to change the maps b/c i can't be bothered to change my mechs or learn to not alpha with laser vomit...


They should just get rig of Boreal, Vitric, and Sulphorous b/c they are too extreme...

Big stompy mech battles only ever occurred on rolling hill in pleasant weather...

/end sarcasm

where did i mention heat scaling on maps?

[Appogee]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 03 May 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

A stupid response. "Dont like FW play quick play"

No, what would be "stupid" would be allowing you to turn the more advanced form of the metagame (ie FP) into yet another form of Quick Play, by reducing the little complexity it already has.

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 03 May 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

If you have nobody to play against what are you going to do?

I'll be playing with all the like-minded and people who don't expect the final expression of MWO to be dumbed down to yet another 12v12 skirmish.

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 03 May 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

We should be making Faction warfare more entry friendly not less.

But your version of "friendly" is "make scouting relatively pointless by removing the biggest incentive to doing it".

It's like telling the guys who made Eve that they shouldn't let anyone have capital ships, because taking down capital ships is too hard for casual players.

And, why just stop at the Long Tom? We could also make FP "friendly" for noobs by removing drop ships lasers, putting up impenetrable force fields around drop zone, enabling 3PV, removing the big bad gates that cause attackers to walk through choke points, stop players from bringing strikes, etc etc etc.

How much dumbed down will be enough for it to be sufficiently "friendly"?

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 03 May 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

Just look at the faction play general forum. Its littered with topics asking where all the faction players are? They all quit playing it. Do you want to wait 30 minutes a match?

MWO's player count is due to reasons far more numerous than the recent advent of the Long Tom. If the price of having quick drops in FP - again, the ultimate expression of MWO - is that casuals don't play it as often, then so be it.

FP is the end game. Far more people will leave MWO if the end game is just more 12v12 skirmishes.

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 03 May 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

Also I don't know why you are baggin on my guys since the last time we ran into you we beat you. ADHD indeed.

What is your unit? I don't recall ever playing you. Not that it makes any difference to this thread.

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 03 May 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

We played 17 scout missions last night and won 15 of them. It didnt matter as the IS out zerged us and still enabled it. We got to do zero invasion matches because whoever else was doing it lost and lost hard.

There are five attackable planets. Every single time I play FP - and I have played every night since the patch - there have been planets with the attackers winning the intel fight, and losing the intel fight, and in between.

So if you've done what you can to out-scout the enemy, just drop on a planet where you have the Long Tom advantage, or no-one has it.

Edited by Appogee, 03 May 2016 - 07:25 AM.

[Commander A9]

Turn it against them.

Grab 'em by the belt when the arty comes down; it'll fall on them too.

[Gigashot]

Take this with a grain of salt because I realize I don't have the level of experience of a lot of you.

But this is kind of embarrassing. A fellow Clan Unit refusing to play cause it's not their way? Where is your pride man.

Tom is good, but not that good. I've won matches against it. I've lost matches with it. I've had it, and had it only kill friendly fire targets. And that's okay. It requires opposing teams to adapt their strategy (we cant just deathball camp this corner indefinitely now?) and adds some RNG to matches, so that the often 12-man IS Unit doesn't always smash through the rag-tag patchwork Clan company. It's hard to obtain, and makes Scouting valuable and camaraderie between Scouts and the main force.


Should they increase the cooldown? Maybe. But removal? No. I think the benefits outweigh the negatives.

[Jon Gotham]

MovinTarget, on 02 May 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:

Sigh

I am not the only one telling you that 12 mans can not only tread water, but win vs LT...

But you have decided that this is "untenable" despite evidence and testimony to the contrary. Units like 228, NS, and many others have realized that playing "return to sender" makes for additional challenges and fun. Look for the videos on youtube if you don't know how it works.

If anything, the LT has been nerfed because people haven't learned how to use it to their advantage. The enemy has more abilty to aim LT than its owner.

But its clear you have decided want you want and are not interested in adapting so i am done here.

Adapting and "beating" long tom is one thing, but is that thing fun? I do not want to on my team, nor against it.

Edited by Jon Gotham, 04 May 2016 - 06:29 AM.