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Long Tom Killing Cw


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#1 Natural Predator

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 07:16 PM

Anyone who knows me and those within our Unit knows I hate excuses. But the long tom feature is absolutely ridiculous. Short cool down huge range. The only way to avoid it is to force a brawl which clan mechs do not excel at. The long tom is killing the game for me and our CW group. We lost 9 mechs last night before they even pushed in. Its an absolute joke. GBKP will now no longer drop Faction play if the long tom is enabled. Congrats on killing faction play. Playing clan is almost unplayable these days. And since somebody is gonna ask, I average of 1800 damage a game. GOOD GAME PGI

#2 xWiredx

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 07:30 PM

Um... scout planets harder...

I agree it needs to be toned down/changed, but this is entirely avoidable. We had long tom on our side on two planets (1 attacking, 1 defending) tonight for the vast majority of our play time. As we have demonstrated, and our enemies demonstrated in several matches tonight, it is not the overly devastating, game-breaking thing some people are making it out to be. Plus if you're that lax in scouting on a planet that the enemy can use the long tom, you have other problems.

#3 Natural Predator

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 07:32 PM

View PostxWiredx, on 30 April 2016 - 07:30 PM, said:

Um... scout planets harder...

I agree it needs to be toned down/changed, but this is entirely avoidable. We had long tom on our side on two planets (1 attacking, 1 defending) tonight for the vast majority of our play time. As we have demonstrated, and our enemies demonstrated in several matches tonight, it is not the overly devastating, game-breaking thing some people are making it out to be. Plus if you're that lax in scouting on a planet that the enemy can use the long tom, you have other problems.


So your answer is I cant run my 12 mans anymore? Thats not an answer man. If the game is gonna be about 4 man scouting then just do away with 12 mans entirely.

#4 Tronword Furey

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 12:09 AM

You misrepresent your Touman and unit Ragnar, has Clan Ghost Bear fallen to open whining against the filthy IS? Focus on scouting before launching an open attack. No one among the Clans should have to brief you on this. If you need a reminder of our aggression, tactics, techniques and procedures, I will gladly remind you in the Circle of Equals.


-Oathmaster Tronword Furey

Edited by Tronword Furey, 02 May 2016 - 12:10 AM.


#5 invernomuto

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 12:31 AM

View PostRagnar Baron Leiningen, on 30 April 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

Anyone who knows me and those within our Unit knows I hate excuses. But the long tom feature is absolutely ridiculous. Short cool down huge range. The only way to avoid it is to force a brawl which clan mechs do not excel at. The long tom is killing the game for me and our CW group. We lost 9 mechs last night before they even pushed in. Its an absolute joke. GBKP will now no longer drop Faction play if the long tom is enabled. Congrats on killing faction play. Playing clan is almost unplayable these days. And since somebody is gonna ask, I average of 1800 damage a game. GOOD GAME PGI


I agree with you that Long Tom needs to be reduced in effectiveness but we need also to balance the reduced effectiveness of the LT with the scouting missions rewards: right now if your unit wins in scout missions (and Clans have one of the best medium for scouting - the Streaks Crow), you will gain a huge advantage with LT. If you nerf too much this advantage scouting will become pointless. So, IMHO no huge nerf (or removal) of LT is needed, PGI has to tone down it a little bit further its effectiveness (it had damage halved in the previous hotfix).
One solution could be to have a Long Tom that has longer "recharge cycles" or that is callable by the Company commander three time maximum.

Edited by invernomuto, 02 May 2016 - 12:31 AM.


#6 SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 01:07 AM

View PostRagnar Baron Leiningen, on 30 April 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

Anyone who knows me and those within our Unit knows I hate excuses. But the long tom feature is absolutely ridiculous. Short cool down huge range. The only way to avoid it is to force a brawl which clan mechs do not excel at. The long tom is killing the game for me and our CW group. We lost 9 mechs last night before they even pushed in. Its an absolute joke. GBKP will now no longer drop Faction play if the long tom is enabled. Congrats on killing faction play. Playing clan is almost unplayable these days. And since somebody is gonna ask, I average of 1800 damage a game. GOOD GAME PGI


I think its a cool feature but honestly, the times in comes into action shoud be reduced to 2 times per match.But maybie it was easyer to programm that all 3 bonuses trigger at once, who knows....
What in my opinion kills FW the most are the maps.They just not stand up to the goal making FW to THE game mode.
They are too simplistic and unappealing, just unimmersive.Making the whole experience very repetitive.

#7 Lily from animove

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 02:52 AM

scout harder, scouting is now an essential part of the game to either deinal Long Toms or to get access to it.


View PostRagnar Baron Leiningen, on 30 April 2016 - 07:32 PM, said:


So your answer is I cant run my 12 mans anymore? Thats not an answer man. If the game is gonna be about 4 man scouting then just do away with 12 mans entirely.



that means FW now rquires more than just invasion, it requires also preparation. And if your pilots aren't complete derps you can make split into 3x4 and scout the long toms away, then go to invasion.

Edited by Lily from animove, 02 May 2016 - 02:54 AM.


#8 dervishx5

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 02:55 AM



#9 Ronaef

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 03:44 AM

Just a couple of hints to deal with Long Tom:

1.- Improve your scouting: you are supposed to take care of both parts of the faction play, allowing the enemy more than 90% of the intel points means a poor planning. If you have LT against, split that 12-man into 3 4-man and scout.

2.- It is not impossible to win against the LT (we did it), you need a well coordinated group and just a bit of luck.

'IX'

Edited by Ronaef, 02 May 2016 - 03:47 AM.


#10 Nightshade24

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 04:19 AM

Funny to think that so many players want the smaller battlemech equipable version in game...

#11 dervishx5

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 05:18 AM

View PostNightshade24, on 02 May 2016 - 04:19 AM, said:

Funny to think that so many players want the smaller battlemech equipable version in game...


The Longtom (not the mech mounted cannon) only does like 30 damage spread over an entire mech. Not sure why PGI decided it was okay to go with 300 damage other than they don't playtest new features at all because they're entirely disconnected with how this game is played.

#12 Nightshade24

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 05:31 AM

View Postdervishx5, on 02 May 2016 - 05:18 AM, said:


The Longtom (not the mech mounted cannon) only does like 30 damage spread over an entire mech. Not sure why PGI decided it was okay to go with 300 damage other than they don't playtest new features at all because they're entirely disconnected with how this game is played.

They perhaps wanted it to be worth while...

It is something that scouts have to work hard to get then play it out on the field.
If they did play test it they didn't have the data to see how devastating it may be. In test (even in a population of 100, or 1000) it may turn out that if someone gains Long Toms the other team works harder to disable it instead of play invasion and get smashed by it... Maybe they are in a much more loose formation and it only ever damages or kills 1 mech at best instead of 5 mechs hugging an ECM and die.

They can't see how it'll be when added until it is added in game. They can't tell how a large merc unit will handle it in a 'meta' or 'cheese' or 'comp' or unforseen way. When people saw gauss rifles people see sniper weapons while other people saw it as a lower heat higher velocity slightly lower damage Ac 20 and used it heavily in brawling which in this case it was OP (In BT this was nerfed by having a min range... like LRM's or ER PPC's.). Or how some people on some CW maps do not even take out the generators and just run on a funky path against a cliff and jump over even in mechs like timberwolfs or thunderbolts.

But enough of the talk of testing... the problem is simply that they need time in the live field to test how it goes.

And I think it would be better to have say 6-10 shots over time over an area with 30 damage shots. That way if you get the hell out of there you at best gets max 60 damage for a sluggish mech and 30 or less for a lighter mech. If you are stuborn or pinned down you may get the splash or hits of the other shots over time . (performing like artillery... few innacurate shots land first, then go a bit more hard out near a center after awhile).

However many people have many suggestions... some people say keep the splash and make it 1 singular 30 damage shot... others say make it a commander only ability... others say this or that etc...
Some ideas may have bunch of people saying yes and zero to none say no and PGI adds it and turns out all the people who never bothered with suggestions hate it... who knows.

#13 dervishx5

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 05:36 AM

You make a sound point. However it's always best to go with the original rules first and tweak from there. Multiple shots probably would have been better.

But you know what would have been best?

HAVE A BETA TEST SERVER RUNNING 24/7 WITH A DEDICATED BETA TEAM MADE UP OF PLAYERS WITH NOTHING BETTER TO DO.

Posted Image



Can't afford a Beta server? Charge to be on the beta team. People will pay. There's no shortage of those who wish to help out.

Edited by dervishx5, 02 May 2016 - 06:26 AM.


#14 SteelHoves

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 06:34 AM

I played a match last night with the long tom activated for the opposing team. The map mode was hold territory and guess what happened. The attacking team never went more than 200 meters from their drop zone and waited for the long tom to kill the defending team. I doubt this is the intended affect PGI was looking for. I think the cool down should be lowered and or it can’t be fired at certain locations on the map IE right around omega or maybe the gates.

#15 Akillius

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 07:09 AM

I agree there's been a number of problems with this newest CW release, so hopefully players that do 12 man drops really well stick with it as pgi tweaks cw.

I've seen a number of players (who drop in 12 man teams) using faction chat asking for scouts on certain planets as needed.
I did scouting for smoke jaguar all weekend long because I like lights and I know scouting gives some real nice advantages to the 12 man teams plus there was constant demand for scouts, we even managed to get a few planets at 100% scouted.

Anyway, what really needs pointing out is that scouting is not for everyone because:
- Scout pilots need to really like lights or medium mechs
- Like dropping in uber light/medium mech builds to hunt/defend-defeat similar mechs, and be/get good at shooting lights.
- Must like quick drops because scouting really similar feel/play style to quick drops.

And for pugs that are interested in trying scouting:
- Scout pilots shouldn't worry about the reputation/loyalty points, you can join/do more scouting matchs faster then 12v12
- Scout pilots shouldn't worry about the cbills "lost" during match-making or drop que's compared to the amount gained by doing quick plays in the same amount of time, because a trade-off is rewards gained from rank from reputation points and skills gained at fighting lights/meds and while in lights/meds.

#16 Lily from animove

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 08:10 AM

View Postdervishx5, on 02 May 2016 - 05:36 AM, said:

You make a sound point. However it's always best to go with the original rules first and tweak from there. Multiple shots probably would have been better.

But you know what would have been best?

HAVE A BETA TEST SERVER RUNNING 24/7 WITH A DEDICATED BETA TEAM MADE UP OF PLAYERS WITH NOTHING BETTER TO DO.

Posted Image




Can't afford a Beta server? Charge to be on the beta team. People will pay. There's no shortage of those who wish to help out.


there isn't enough people that would play the mode on a beta test server. therefoe the live server will funtioning as such.

#17 dervishx5

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 08:28 AM

View PostLily from animove, on 02 May 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:


there isn't enough people that would play the mode on a beta test server. therefoe the live server will funtioning as such.


Which is incredibly dense and only serves to piss off the existing playerbase. Poor business model.

#18 DevlinCognito

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 08:49 AM

Trying not to get to involved in the knee jerk hysteria of this community is hard, but let's look at this subjectively.

The Long Tom (or Russ Hammer) is massively powerful, as it should be for something that is the final reward for teams of scouts spending their time Scouting. However this is being magnified at the moment by the fact that everyone and their mother playing FW for the lure of free stuff and Scouting still being something novel means the higher rewards are being hit too early. In a few days CW is going to lose a big part of its current population again, it may well stay a little higher due to a lot of folks (myself included) who enjoy the 4v4 gameplay. When that happens you won't still be seeing the Scouting rewards shooting up as they are now, so the Russ Hammer won't be as prevalent unless teams are committing their time to getting it, slowing down the capture of planets. If teams ARE dropping against planets with the Russ Hammer activated, why aren't you checking the planet first? It's one simple click of a button to see if it's there, use it. If you see its there, break up into smaller teams and knock it back down.

As it currently stands, in 4 days time the Russ Hammer is going to be more of a bane to organised teams who have it on their side than anything else, and I've already seen folks calling to their scouts to stop dropping on a planet so they don't win the Long Tom. Why? Because anyone with an ounce of sense stops going there meaning welcome to ghost town. No matter how powerful a team/weapon/item used by an opponent is, nothing kills teams quicker than multiple ghost drops.

As it stands, the Long Tom adds something different to the game (well the meta game at any rate). It is massively powerful yes, can it be beaten? Yes, I know ourselves and a few other teams have done it (though against a well organised highly skilled unit it's probably going to be a step to far to take the team despite the gun) but that's the reward you get for having dedicated scouts doing a good job. My only issue with it as it stands now is the shortness of the ceasefire windows. By the time a planet is reaching critical mass, if one team or the other gets the Russ Hammer then teams aren't going to have time to continue the assault after spending time Scouting, and with limited attack vectors now people will simply call it a day and go do something else instead of fighting a lost cause of Scouting with not enough time to get back into the Invasion games and actually have a chance of doing anything useful.

The Clan/IS argument I'm not even going to touch as I see it as more of the same hysteria this community has. Scouting came in when we were IS and we wrecked face, now we're Clan, we still wreck face. If what you're doing isn't working, try something else. Maybe one of the suggestions that have been posted up ad nauseum.

#19 S_T_R_A_N_G_E

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 08:50 AM

I honestly don't see how long toms are attainable. We had several lances try for over an hour to take 89% and get it over 90%. We were not able to do so. Basically every match became a defend and we never had the option to get more points. I think we had 3-4 lances trying and I know I was part of that effort for about 30 minutes.

I am not sure what is going on, it would seem that PGI was actively intervening to stop us from getting a gather match.

#20 DevlinCognito

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 09:15 AM

The same reason why we ended up getting 6 Hold Territories on Hellebore in a row, PGI hate YOU ... 8-)





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