653 replies to this topic

[Good_Cat]

WANTED, on 07 July 2016 - 04:20 AM, said:

Boreal is s perfect map for LRMs. Others not so much.

Its about the only one but its also good for Clan PPC/ Guass/ and Lrge Pulse IS dont quite have the range but you could do well with Guass and ER PPC.

[Aylward]

Dee Eight, on 07 July 2016 - 12:07 AM, said:

The unit was Headhunters of Davion that brought all the LRM mechs to boreal vault.

And whenever we do, the Drop caller specified the number of missile mechs and which wave they'd be used on in conjunction with spotters/scouts and direct fire mechs in advance.. I'm actually one of those that often volunteers for this job, and my favorite is an Archer 5W with LRM5's and SRM6's on it.. Boreal defense is the #1 situation for judiciously applied LRMS against pugs as well as a good number of teams out there and many waves have been cut down with a combination of Indirect and direct fire in this manner as a change of pace from the usual defense there.... However, as has been pointed out, if you hit a #1 teamkiller like a Kcom 12 man...you definitely feel underdressed. and the disparity is revealed. We were playing around with those last week and had one match where we crushed the opposition with two waves of 3-4 LRM boats, and then readied back up and got an instadrop, so many did not have time to switch out decks and we go back in and this time it was Pat Kell and the boys and we all just went "oh crap".. and as expected, that one did NOT go well. we laughed with them about it afterwards.. But it was also a team decision in advance to have this config, not a solo/pug climbing into a mixed room and just taking a lurm boat to shower whatever everyone else is dying from with no coordination..

so, bottom line.. if you're going to use them...make sure you are coordinated with the rest of your team to do so..dont expect them to get locks for you unless you have designated spotters/scouts doing so.... dont sit back 1000m and try and rain from maximum range...and know that you are taking a risk bringing them if you encounter a team coordinated enough to counter them..

And that moment when you feel like you are throwing rocks at someone who's shooting bullets at you.. you will know what the rest here have been talking about.. And you will be more careful the next time (hopefully. )

[DivBy0]

Nowadays with nearly ever Target ID and MapHack for the Clans, IS can forget any idea about a light rush on wave one. Even befor the rescale nerf of the IS-Lights they are useless in CW... not the quirks (which quirks? last year I have seen only nerf after nerf) has the Lights driven out the dropdecks. Only the Qxide is still playabel

MovinTarget, on 01 May 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

Streaks were big back in early cw b/c with a 240 ton drop deck you were sure to see lights alot on last wave, but the game has evolved especially with IS quirks making lighter heavies and bigger mediums viable.

With few cd quirks applicable to streaks, they just take to long to cooldown.

Edited by von Haudegen, 07 July 2016 - 06:07 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Not sure which point you are arguing. I was trying to say streak boats were not useful since the death of lights (in general) in FP. Since then I've seen some clan guys use the MDD 6xstreak6 boats to rack up lots of dmg and kmds for the leaderboards, but not necessarily lots of kills...

I will give you credit, did think anybody could stand to go back that 2 months in this thread just to needle a tangent...

Edited by MovinTarget, 07 July 2016 - 06:30 AM.

[MischiefSC]

HHoD troll drop with LRMs. You know they were irritated with LT if they were lurming Clan pugs.

It's like teabagging a corpse. They didn't just beat you, they LURMed you.

Premade v pug you can do it on Boreal, less effectively while on Sulfurous and Emerald Taiga.

The point though is that if they'd brought brawlers and direct fire they probably would have wiped you before you got passed the gate.

[GetinmyBellah]

demoyn, on 13 May 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

This is mostly due to the event. Typically Jade Falcon players are above average in skill, but since this horrendous event started every baddie with a mouse has come over to the clan with the highest win rate because they can't win otherwise.

Which is the exact reason I chose Marik. Not only because I was a part of a Merc group for House Marik back in 93'-94', back in the day playing Multiplayer BattleTech, but because they are definitely the underdog in MW:O, hehe. Yet, the drawback has been I rarely have any action to drop into!

Anyhow, I agree with said comments about proper LRM usage regardless!

[Jumping Gigolo]

Wow this thread is still alive


To the lurm aficionados: Since you will not be sharing armor with you teammates at all, then no need to put armor on your lurmboats. Strip all your armor for more firepower. Here's a sample LRM 85 maddog with 49% heat efficiency

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...645731e5c2dec40

Tag and NARC so you wont rely on others to lock targets for you. Make sure your missiles will hit your target and not rocks. This is Mechwarrior not Minecraft.

Jumping Gigolo, on 15 May 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

Bring 4 LRM boats if you want as long you do minimum 2000damage in a match. Don't mind your brawler/direct fire teammates getting focused and losing their mechs fast as long you do 2000 damage. Even if you lose the match, your teammates will not call you a lurmtard 'coz had big match stats, and you tried to carry the match it's just your teammates are noobs.

And if you are doing less than 1K damage a match then you may want to reconsider hiding some more and taking the initiative to drop command that match and tell your digrunted brawling/direct fire teammates to hold locks so you can unleash your fullest potential.

[Pat Kell]

Jumping Gigolo, on 07 July 2016 - 11:07 PM, said:

Wow this thread is still alive


To the lurm aficionados: Since you will not be sharing armor with you teammates at all, then no need to put armor on your lurmboats. Strip all your armor for more firepower. Here's a sample LRM 85 maddog with 49% heat efficiency

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...645731e5c2dec40

Tag and NARC so you wont rely on others to lock targets for you. Make sure your missiles will hit your target and not rocks. This is Mechwarrior not Minecraft.

O dear god.


FYI, not enough ammo, strip that narc and tag as it's unlikely you will be able to see the enemy long enough to use them as you will be dead. Only hope is to pray your team holds locks and lives long enough for you to land.

Edited by Pat Kell, 08 July 2016 - 01:24 AM.

[MovinTarget]

This thread....

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him strap on direct fire weapons....

Points and counterpoints have been made. Time to put this thread out of its misery.

[John Mechlane]

OP bashes LRMs, then tells people to bring streaks....

[Biclor Moban]

Stahlherz, on 16 May 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

It should be avoided to shroud the basic truth about LRMs in obscure esotericisms like those. It is not gonna happen that a player sits underneath a tree to experience some groundbreaking revelation and become LRM Buddha.

The "basic truth about LRMs" is what? "LRMs are bad UM kay" brilliant deduction.
This revelation you deny the existence of tells you when to use them and when not to.
It doesn't stay "boat them at every chance so you can screw your team" to be clear.

Nevermind this is a waste of time.

I just hate, A. assuming that everybody is "boating" LRMs
B. assuming every LRM user is sitting in 999meters back from the line.
Those problems are just as bad with Gauss, ERLL and PPC if you have bad timing, over range or bad aim.

Edited by Biclor Moban, 25 July 2016 - 05:30 AM.

[S_T_R_A_N_G_E]

LRM can be fine on any map, however, they are hard to coordinate as a PUG... the problem is that most people who will bring LRM's to FP will never read this post let alone log in to the forums.

The major problem with LRM is that they can't do damage fast enough, especially against fast moving clans. Therefore the tonnage is better used somewhere else.

[Spheroid]

Even on Borreal lurms are a bad choice. AMS is two slot requirement, which is not even a sacrifice on most mechs. Enough AMS and the NARC is not getting through.

The Black Knight and Battlemaster-2C are dual capable and very fast. Half-ton a ton is sufficient, you only need to survive the trench and get to hard cover and you are golden.

The Thunderbolt can make small concessions for limited AMS. The Warhammer-7S can use its CT slots that would otherwise be unused.

By conceding the gate you have already lost. The attackers have free reign to choose the attack vector and time of attack. The match is now in end game.

[DevlinCognito]

Vitric - terrible for Lurms, far too much cover for the target with all the buildings high walls to use to avoid the LRM's

Grim - terrible for Lurms, far to much cover for the target to use to avoid LRM's unless fighting around the gun, but if you're dominating that area that area you've needed to push through tight chokepoints where LRM's are useless/let the attackers overrun you.

Emerald - if fighting outside the gates, a lack of high cover makes the LRM relatively useful, but all the objectives are inside the gate with all the high cover/buildings where LRM's are next to useless.

Hellebore - long sight lines would make LRM's helpful, but your spotter is going to be awfully exposed and focused down. If attacking there is way to much high cover for the defender to safely ignore them.

Sulphurous - High buildings for the defender to hide behind and plenty of ridges for the attacker to use to break LoS.

Boreal - I hear this touted as the map to bring LRMs on often, yet I rarely take anything more long ranged than a Large Pulse as there is plenty of cover to use if aggressive enough. It works well enough if you've got a team dedicated to LRMing against disorganised skittles.

[Tesunie]

DevlinCognito, on 26 July 2016 - 02:48 AM, said:

Vitric - terrible for Lurms, far too much cover for the target with all the buildings high walls to use to avoid the LRM's

Grim - terrible for Lurms, far to much cover for the target to use to avoid LRM's unless fighting around the gun, but if you're dominating that area that area you've needed to push through tight chokepoints where LRM's are useless/let the attackers overrun you.

Emerald - if fighting outside the gates, a lack of high cover makes the LRM relatively useful, but all the objectives are inside the gate with all the high cover/buildings where LRM's are next to useless.

Hellebore - long sight lines would make LRM's helpful, but your spotter is going to be awfully exposed and focused down. If attacking there is way to much high cover for the defender to safely ignore them.

Sulphurous - High buildings for the defender to hide behind and plenty of ridges for the attacker to use to break LoS.

Boreal - I hear this touted as the map to bring LRMs on often, yet I rarely take anything more long ranged than a Large Pulse as there is plenty of cover to use if aggressive enough. It works well enough if you've got a team dedicated to LRMing against disorganised skittles.

Been thinking long and hard on what to say here.

Lets just say I disagree (to some extent).

It's all about what angle of attack you line up, and often times LRMs are about pushing and keeping an enemy behind cover (for the entire "incoming LRM" warning message) as much as they can be about damage. (They are a very utility weapon, and a weapon I often call a "terror" weapon.)

The maps you mentioned, I have no problem running LRMs on them. But, of course, I will also make note that I:
- Don't Boat LRMs.
- Stay with my Team.
- Fire directly as much as I do indirectly, with my other weapon systems being used as needed (and often).
- Stay on the move.
- Don't spray and pray.
- Sometimes will waste a volley to push someone behind cover again, even if I know they can't hit.
- Use LRMs primarily (unless above reason) within 600m. The closer to the minimum ranges, typically the better the results.

Then again, I'm able to consistently use LRMs in places people don't expect them to be used in, such as the basement of HPG (yes, it's close, but it can be done) and the underside of the Docks in Crimson Straights. Just this week, I was effectively using LRMs on Hellebore within the gated area (On defense and Offense) and did best with my single LRM based mech compared to the rest of my drop deck. (I will admit that I was with my unit at the time, but we didn't exactly "plan" an LRM mech into our strategy, I just took it because I could.)

It's all in how you use it, what you expect to get out of it, and about using what you've got to best effect. Then again, as I've stated, I also don't Boat LRMs. I only have a single LRM boat in all the mechs I own, but they are CLRMs so they don't have a minimum range (so to speak), and are on a fast mech (Summoner). All other LRM based mechs I own don't boat, and typically LRMs are a secondary weapon, or I have sufficient secondaries to compliment my LRMs (which means more than 2 med lasers).


AKA: If you read nothing else, just understand that I disagree with you because of the way I use LRMs. Not referring to the typical manner most people seem to use them (indirectly, boated, and standing "behind" the team), is a different story. But then again, comparing a weapon system to one of the worst ways you can use it isn't exactly a fair comparison.

[DevlinCognito]

Forgot all about this thread.

Aye Tesunie, it isn't rocket science that you can use LRMs in all these situations, but would you have been more effective using direct fire weapons? I'm sure the few years of experience didn't help at all either? Or the fact you were in a co-ordinated unit. You don't use LRMs as your main weapon, why? Arent they as effective as the back up weapons?

I've seen LRMs used the way you say you play them, hell, I'm pretty sure I could do it if the fancy took me. But I don't. Because its just not as effective as direct fire at killing Mechs quickly.

... and I cant lock on to my team mates.

[gamingogre]

I don't LRMs a lot, and I only have one LRM boat. I can get over 1000+damage in it. Command module, BAP, and a tag are all a part of the package. Also, it's an assault, so I run with the team to absorb damage. People tend to shoot the LRM boats over other targets, so my assault is real useful so long as the team does not nascar it and leave me behind. Being left behind applies to all assault builds, of course.

[Tesunie]

DevlinCognito, on 06 August 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

Forgot all about this thread.

Aye Tesunie, it isn't rocket science that you can use LRMs in all these situations, but would you have been more effective using direct fire weapons? I'm sure the few years of experience didn't help at all either? Or the fact you were in a co-ordinated unit. You don't use LRMs as your main weapon, why? Arent they as effective as the back up weapons?

I've seen LRMs used the way you say you play them, hell, I'm pretty sure I could do it if the fancy took me. But I don't. Because its just not as effective as direct fire at killing Mechs quickly.

... and I cant lock on to my team mates.

I bring LRMs for utility, not always for killing power. I also find I do (personally) better in my LRM based mechs than I do my direct fire weapons as an average. Of course, it depends upon the situation and how I need to use my mech at that time.

For the record, I've used my LRMs inside and outside of unit/team/premade teams. I've PUGed with them many times and done well, even in CW. Often times, it's how you use them. I like the utility of LRMs, but I also don't want to focus on them because they do have their weaknesses. Then again, I have a fondness for range bracketed builds and mixed loadouts.

gamingogre, on 06 August 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

I don't LRMs a lot, and I only have one LRM boat. I can get over 1000+damage in it. Command module, BAP, and a tag are all a part of the package. Also, it's an assault, so I run with the team to absorb damage. People tend to shoot the LRM boats over other targets, so my assault is real useful so long as the team does not nascar it and leave me behind. Being left behind applies to all assault builds, of course.

Um... That Command Console (I presume you mean this instead of Command "Module") does nothing for LRMs. All it does in increase data gathering speeds (the time it takes to get your opponent's damage display) and increase your sensor ranges a bit (and seen as LRMs outside 600m are an iffy affair already...). BAP also only has moderate use for LRMs, but works a lot better than the CC. BAP will extend sensor ranges (of marginal use) as well as disable a single nearby ECM unit (of a bit more use, but still not always a help for LRMs due to range to close up threat).

NARC, TAG and Artemis are the three systems that improve LRM performance, as well as Advanced Target Decay module and LRM(insert size here) cooldown module. The UAV Consumable module is also very handy for LRMs. BAP gets mentioned a lot for LRMs to prevent ECM from disabling your locks on farther targets, but remains as a "it's nice to have" mention for the most part.

[Spider00x]

Bottom line you can bring LRMs on maps where cover is scare and for the love of god people, utilize narcs if no one is narcing dont bother brining LRMs. Whoever is in the front have them narc and your dedicated LRM boats in the back raining down hell

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Spider00x, on 12 August 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

Bottom line you can bring LRMs on maps where cover is scare and for the love of god people, utilize narcs if no one is narcing dont bother brining LRMs. Whoever is in the front have them narc and your dedicated LRM boats in the back raining down hell

....that's not the bottom line. That's got one element in common with the bottom line.

I'd just like to pipe in that I'm in agreement with Tes here, and have used LRMs in many of the same situations (and manners). Also, like Tes, I only have one 'mech that's near-fully dedicated to LRMs, and anything else with LRMs uses them either as a secondary weapon set, a support weapon, or one half of an even loadout (at worst). It should also be noted that my only Clan 'mechs at this point are two Kit Fox, only one of which has LRM racks on it (because if I'm going to ECM support from next to the assaults, I want to be able to contribute damage in the same situations as them, despite being unable to look over much of anything). Still, my observations, for what value they have, all support the line of thinking Tesunie is running on here, and the actual overall agreement and thus bottom line of this thread-

Boating LRMs and using them as an excuse to hide as far from the fight as possible while hucking them half-blind is at best of minimal benefit even if you do rack up stupid large numbers of damage.