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Never Bring Lrms To An Fp Match


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#501 Timicon

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 10:34 AM

Like q lot of people have already said about the benefits of bring LRMs to FP matches, I also find the Oaps topic quite flawed. And on that note, what are you going to do if no IS 'Mexh brings LRMs, but the Clans are packing them? Sorry, I think I just a huge in your armour - literally.

#502 Pat Kell

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 07:58 PM

View PostTimicon, on 20 August 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

And on that note, what are you going to do if no IS 'Mexh brings LRMs, but the Clans are packing them?

I think the IS is going to win then...not that difficult of a question to answer.

#503 Biclor Moban

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 08:32 PM

How is it that this thread is still going on. Beat a dead horse much.

#504 MovinTarget

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 04:47 AM

View PostDee Eight, on 20 August 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:


Well you can "improve" streaks a bit by chain firing. The algorithm for them automatically has each go to a "random" location that hasn't had another missile in the group sent to it already, until all areas have been hit at least once (the head can never be hit though). With 7 locations to choose from the front, and more from the back due to how small the rear hit boxes tend to be, and how much the front overlaps to the rear sides, a shot of 18 streaks for example (3 six-packs) will basically go to the 7 front armor locations twice each, a third time to four more locations. If you chain them, each group is treated seperately and its possible you might get three to same spot, more than 4 times. This of course becomes more important with multiple smaller launchers (streak-2s should always be chain fired, five of them could potentially hit the same spot five times, but fired as a group the most that'll hit the same spot is 2 missiles).


Same problems as trickling lrms... *if* you are solely dependent on them, you are reducing you dps to a trickle on the hopes of increasing accuracy. Bottom line, you won't kill things fast enough. Add to that the fact that unlike lrms, streaks are hard to "hook" around cover, it means you are more likely to expose yourself so the trickle method would not be a safe play...

Edited by MovinTarget, 21 August 2016 - 06:28 AM.


#505 Sgt Minuteman

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 05:17 AM

View PostOsulf, on 10 May 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:

In my experience LRMs aren't just about damage they also help to supress enemy mechs. If it forces them to hid in cover, it helps cover an advance and hopefully causing less damage to your mech in the advance. LRMs can change enemy behaviour and plans.

Also LRMs are team friendly. If you have a fellow team player being attacked by an enemy some distance away you can try and supress the enemy to help them out and then do the same for another friendly mech shortly after rather than having to run around the map so much to achieve this.

The only time I have been in an invasion PUG were it was 12 kills to 0 after the first wave was in a team of several LRM users and the enemy were hit hard by the LRM.

Do people just see LRMs in terms of damage, and ignore the benefits of support (which hopefully goes alongside damage from the LRMS) e.g. suppression role (discuss)?


Exactly right. I always bring a rack of LRM on all my Atlas for this reason. It never fails that i get a sniper trying to pick at me or my team and I suppress him with LRM. LRM is a valid weapon system. If you are an old school Mechwarrior 2 player from the start, you know the value. It's the FPS mentality that doesn't understand the value of LRM when used properly. This game is a SIM first and shooter second. I have seen whole direct fire laser vomit teams decimated by LRM. Laser vomit guys are just not into diversity and adapting your mechs to all possible situations.

#506 MovinTarget

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 06:30 AM

View PostSgt Minuteman, on 21 August 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:


Exactly right. I always bring a rack of LRM on all my Atlas for this reason. It never fails that i get a sniper trying to pick at me or my team and I suppress him with LRM. LRM is a valid weapon system. If you are an old school Mechwarrior 2 player from the start, you know the value. It's the FPS mentality that doesn't understand the value of LRM when used properly. This game is a SIM first and shooter second. I have seen whole direct fire laser vomit teams decimated by LRM. Laser vomit guys are just not into diversity and adapting your mechs to all possible situations.


Won't argue that making them duck back is good, just don't boat them without a spotter and backups if you want to overcome their deficiencies.

#507 Ryoken

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 07:11 AM

Lol a good sniper did put you his ER Large Laser volley in the face and get back into cover even before your useless LRMs got a lock on. Sorry but supressing a sniper with LRM is a fairy tale... nice try though. =D

#508 SlightlyMobileTurret

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 07:32 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 13 August 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

There's a tiny handful of people - like less than 6 in the whole game who are good enough with LRMs that they're an absolute boon to their team with LRMs. They're all famous and well known.


Names. Now.

I cannot play LRM boats worth crap, and I need to ask these jedis how they do it.

#509 Void Angel

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 08:07 AM

View PostBiclor Moban, on 20 August 2016 - 08:32 PM, said:

How is it that this thread is still going on. Beat a dead horse much.

Posted Image

Edited by Void Angel, 21 August 2016 - 08:09 AM.


#510 Liquid Leopard

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 08:08 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 13 August 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

If your team is clogging firing lanes, then your team is positioning poorly.

I agree, but that's quite common in the PUG cue, and is worse at lower levels.
...And I hated being the direct-fire guy with all the LRM-boat casuals lining up behind me.
...And especially hated taking Clan LRMs to the back. This is why IS LRMs have a minimum arming range.
Clan LRMs are for L33T players who can avoid shooting their teammates!

Sometimes LRMs suck less than doing things "right" and losing. Posted Image

I'm not trying to argue with you, but articulate the pro-LRM point-of-view because I've been there.

I'd also like to articulate to the pro-LRM side that eventually my hardware sucked less, and my mouse-hand coordination sucked less, and I outgrew LRM boating.

View PostMischiefSC, on 13 August 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

If you're bringing LRMs because your team needs to work on positioning and situational awareness then one could argue that two wrongs don't make a right.

One could argue that, but like I said... PUG cue. I don't always have friends online that I can team up with, so I want to maintain my awareness of what weapons are working that weekend.

View PostMischiefSC, on 13 August 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

There's a tiny handful of people - like less than 6 in the whole game who are good enough with LRMs that they're an absolute boon to their team with LRMs. They're all famous and well known.

^ I don't know who they are, but I can believe it.
Back when I started this game the 1st RDR didn't mind if I brought LRM boats partly because they were willfully taking filthy casuals, and partly because they knew I had low FPS and took pity on me.
(After a while I realized my LRM boats weren't even that boaty. 2xLRM-15...)

If I'm playing community warfare/faction play/whatever with MJ12, and if I bring LRMs, my friends there will be disappointed in me. And they're not going to bring TAG or Narc, because they expect people - even PUGs - in the CW cue to know better than to bring LRMs.

The last few times I played CW the clans' "blueberry spam" was pretty annoying, but I also remember my side having a win ratio better than 1:1 for the day.

I think the blueberry spam was also less common with coordinated clan teams, who were harder to beat.
It was more common from teams of clan "skittles".

View PostKeshav Murali, on 21 August 2016 - 07:32 AM, said:

View PostMischiefSC, on 13 August 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

There's a tiny handful of people - like less than 6 in the whole game - who are good enough with LRMs that they're an absolute boon to their team with LRMs. They're all famous and well known.

Names. Now.

I cannot play LRM boats worth crap, and I need to ask these jedis how they do it.

I can't remember a name... And my friends who are Tier 1 and high Tier 2 turn up their noses at LRMs...
But many months ago, when weekend challenges required you to get a kill for your match to count, there was a Warhawk LRM boat on my team that did 1400 damage and 8 kills at Terra Therma.

When he was on my team in the next match I was like "So-and-so is OP. PGI pls nerf." Posted Image

Edited by Liquid Leopard, 21 August 2016 - 08:15 AM.


#511 MovinTarget

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 08:25 AM

Okay, you guys get it, the thread was never intended to smack you guys around...

The original post (I think) was targeting the guys that bring nothing lrms and sit in the back and ask/complain about getting locks... or don't push on attacks when we are getting shredded... maybe it would not have made a difference other having the knowledge that when the time comes, they are with you, sharing armor...

Tolerable for 5-10 minutes, not so much for 20-30... after a 10-15 minute wait.

I feel the spirit of the post should have been more along the lines asking players to drop in a coordinated fashion, or drop in builds that can pull their own weight...

Edited by MovinTarget, 21 August 2016 - 08:29 AM.


#512 Biclor Moban

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 10:58 PM

Soooooo. After all these months all the back and forth are you saying this post isn't about Lurms? Not only that it sounds like you knew it wasn't about LRM's from the start. shame on you, SHAAAAMMME ON YOU Sir(er,Mam)!

Directed at MovinTarget if it's not obvious....

Edited by Biclor Moban, 21 August 2016 - 11:00 PM.


#513 MovinTarget

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 09:04 AM

I honestly look at this thread much differently than i did from the onset.

When I started, yes i was on the "lrms suck for fp, period." Bandwagon, and while i still won't boat them unless the DC calls for it (hint if a 12 man of 228 brings lrms, best believe they are bringing all the fixins and someone is getting ripped).

I try to read the posts of others, particularly the ones based on reason, logic and (mwo) science. The psychological makeup of different players is quite interesting and you'll notice also, that for some qp is their dumping ground and fp is their gold standard, and others that weigh in feel the opposite.

Long story short, i won't claim to know what works best for any of you, b/c i am *not* you. I don't have your rig, your ping, or even you gaming philosophy.

I know that when coordinated and organized, lrms can be devastating, but my personal feeling is that i would not be at my best boating them in a pug fp drop.

Edited by MovinTarget, 22 August 2016 - 10:50 AM.


#514 Tesunie

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 12:05 PM

View PostJumping Gigolo, on 20 August 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

@ tesunie

I have a few more question if you won't mind:

- based on the amount of CW drops you played, can you confidently claim that you are a very experienced in CW? I don't intend to compare who's AC20 has more length and girth. Because if you will ask me, I can confidently claim here that I'm a CW veteran as I've played CW 95 to 99% of my time playing MWO. To give you an idea, i play CW like an average 6 hours everyday for 14 months already. hence I strongly believe if I say something related to CW it would be credible.


I'm experienced enough, seen as I play it every week with my unit. However, this is irrelevant overall to the discussion at hand. Of course, I'd be hard pressed to play 6+ hours a day in any game... because I work a job. (Playing MW:O does not pay my bills and this is not a job for me.)

View PostJumping Gigolo, on 20 August 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

- you mentioned that you play CW with your unit and barely solo pug. Ok fair enough. But will you recommend/encourage solo puggers (assuming those solo puggers are of your skill level) to bring lurmboats/hybrid lurms in CW?


I have realized long ago that CW/FP is a game mode far more focused on teamwork, group and unit play. Doesn't stop me from dropping solo when I feel like it, but I tend not to because "it isn't advised" to start with.

However, if you are going to play solo in FP, I recommend people to use what seems to be effective for them. For me, it's mixed builds, be it with LRMs or not. I wouldn't encourage nor discourage LRMs in FP to anyone, as it's dependent upon how they use them and how comfortable they are with those builds. I would probably discourage LRM boating, as that emphasizes the weaknesses as well as the strengths of a weapon system... but if they feel they can get it to work... (I'd also strongly advise that they observe what is happening in the match, and adjust themselves and their builds accordingly. If something isn't working, than try something else.)

View PostJumping Gigolo, on 20 August 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

- would you really recommend/encourage players who are new to CW (not necessarily new to MWO) to bring lurmboats/hybrid lurms in CW?? Before you answer this question think of you and me in a beer house drinking and I asked you this question with sincerity (and with a pistol pointing at you under the table hehehe).


My recommendation is similar to new players (in relation to FP, not the game) as it was above. Realize that FP is "end game content" and more geared to team and unit play. It's the "hard mode" of this game at the moment. As such, anyone new to FP I'd recommend the same as before (with a twist). I'd recommend they take the 4 mechs/builds that fit within the drop deck that they feel they preform best within the team in Quickplay (QP) and use them in FP. Then, follow near the team and if someone is making drop calls, try to follow their orders as best you can. (It's best to follow a bad plan, than no plan at all.)

Now, yes. This will lead to a lot of initial mistakes. But, if they are following their team, and they are seeing what tactics are viable and which are not (for them and their teams), than they should adjust themselves from there to better match the game mode. If this involves them removing LRMs from their mechs, so be it. If they decide that the LRMs come in too handy too often, than so be that.

A lot of this is dependent upon the individual and how they gauge their skills. Not everyone will be able to do this effectively, and some will even blame every defeat on their team. These are players not interested in self improvement, and will probably do poorly anyway (sadly).

View PostJumping Gigolo, on 20 August 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

- which is more efficient: killing an enemy mech dealing 500-600 damage (dealing maximum damage from maximum range whatsoever) or killing it with 1-2 alpha in the CT or to the ST if it's an IS mech with XL engine?


Obviously, the faster you can kill a mech, the better. However, your question is also an unfairly stated question, as there is more to MW:O and FP than just "kill as fast as you can". Suppression can be a thing, as well as thinking as part of a team. So is taking the objectives over a kill. In attack, it's often times better to focus on the O Gens and Omega, as that will win you the game.

In relation to LRMs, they are a support weapon. There is a reason I often take some, but I don't normally boat them. They are great for their given roles, but fail in other aspects. Once you start to gauge them strictly in the sense of damage, you are missing at least half of what the weapon is truly capable of.

PS: Their spread damage can also come in handy, such as destroying a side torso, leg, etc on a damaged mech that is shielding their weak components. So, in that sense, they can still drop a target, especially when teamwork and/or mixed builds come into consideration. We also shouldn't exclude the ability to fire indirectly, being able to damage a target when one might otherwise not be able to otherwise.

View PostJumping Gigolo, on 20 August 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

- let's say we're in Counterattack or Hold match wherein the score is 47 - 47and omega is destroyed. The remaining enemy mech is a fresh trial light/medium/heavy mech while your team is in a Metalurmboat. who do you think will win the match?


I see some poor setups here already.
1. You've thrown a theoretical situation where the LRM "boat" would be at a disadvantage already. It's a support mech, and not a front line mech.
2. You've stated the enemy is fresh, but have implied only likewise with the LRM counterpart...
3. You've automatically made the opposition an LRM "boat". Not any consideration of a mixed build, but an assumed boat.
4. You've taken a mech that prefers teamwork and other mechs supporting it, and made it the lone standing mech against a mech known for working solo as an individual. This would not be a very fair comparison of the builds...
5. I could also come up with situations where that LRM mech would have the advantage. (Two mechs are legged, and standing under a UAV they can't shoot down (arms/torso... can't go high... enough). Otherwise they are each fine. One has LRMs, the other does not. They can not see each other...)

Anyway, depending upon how that LRM mech is played and the relevant skills, positioning, UAVs/attention, etc... The LRM mech can pull it off. I've seen it happen before. However, the above points already mention that this engagement is not in the LRM "boats" favor. So, most likely the LRM mech would fall...

View PostJumping Gigolo, on 20 August 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

- and let's say we're in the same counterattack or hold match and the score is 44-44, enemy got 4 remaining direct fire mechs while 4 lurmboats remain in your team (as your 8 direct fire teammates and spotters/narcers) are all permadead. You think those 4 lurmers will beat those remaining 4 enemy fire mechs? (Let's even assume they don't have a single ECM mech with them).


You mention that they are boats. Now it's a team of them...

Now, for this situation, I'm going to have to presume something went wrong. Very wrong.
1. Either the LRM users announced "We have LRMs" as a notification to their team, and then had their team purposefully not hold locks because "I don't want to help no LRM NOOB", thus hindering their entire team and an entire lance of mechs that could have been helping... (And don't deny that this never happens. I've had it happen to me. Thankfully, I go out and get my own locks... As much as I can, when I can.)
2. The LRM users stayed in the backlines of the team, hiding behind cover and not getting their own locks. This is one of the worst ways to use LRMs, and yet often one of the most tempting ways to field them. We've already gone over how this is not very good for the team most of the time...
3. The enemy charged the LRM "boats", and their team was too far away (due to reasons 1 and/or 2), and they died because they boated a single weapon system and found one of the follies of doing so... you increase the weaknesses of said weapon as well. In this case, the need for locks and the 180m weakness bubble. Probably killed the LRMs in the previous rounds...
4. I'd also presume that the LRM mechs stuck together, meaning that once one was swarmed, all of them where. This is a common (mis)tactic of LRM boats. They probably should have been spread out a lot more, with UAVs. This way, if one gets swarmed, the other two can protect with their LRMs, using the swarmed mech's UAV for locks...

As for your pretend situation, the LRM "boats" are once again being placed into their weak spot. However, though the chances can be slim, they could still win. Once more, depending upon how they played them, the actions of their opponents and tactics/skills being used.

Those LRM mechs spread out and capitalize on their strengths and try to minimize their weaknesses, they may stand a chance. If they all do the typical of huddle together and confront the enemy as a solid murderball... The murderball only works well with direct fire weapons, for the most part (with maybe an LRM based mech holding the rear or something).

The chances would be low for the LRM boats in given fictional situation, where every possible hindrance can be stacked against them. They have a chance, but they would need to be coordinated on their efforts, and shooting at the same targets. Hopefully within 600m and outside 180m for all of them.

View PostJumping Gigolo, on 20 August 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

Oh btw, I also tried it all... i was an LRM guy in my first 4 months of playing MWO. I can easily do 2-3k damage especially when solo pugging CW; when teamed up with other baby seals. I just play selfish, stand back behind them and lurm enemies while they die holding locks for me Posted Image if I ran out of ammo I just eject and bring my next lurmboats (why would care using an ammo-depleted lurm mech for my teammates? No need to waste time just deal damage am I right?). But of course, when I realized that CW is totally different from QP and the concept of distributing the damage by sharing your armor amongst your team is equally important to dealing damage to your opponent; it's was the time I stopped playing a playstyle that requires the efforts and sacrifice of others for you to function as intended. If you can play a successfully coordinated CW drop with a mix of direct fire and lurms; so you can with an all direct fire mechs. MWO is a team game, yes it is. But there are situation that you have to step up by contributing your individual skills...by yourself. Using lurms in CW will just promote over-reliance with your (non-lurm) teammates.


Um... Problem with your statement here... In CW/FP, there is no MM. You get dropped in with any other teams/players that happened to be queued on that planet, be they a bunch of solo players, a few small groups, or a 12 man team from an elite unit... There is no "being teamed up with other baby seals" in FP.

I'd also state... You would have been using LRMs in the least efficient way possible, and in the least team coordinated manner available. You would be using your LRMs in the hopes that your team can carry your weight completely on their own. If you were getting your own locks, taking some damage, etc... Than that's a different and more efficient manner of using LRMs within the team.

I actually like LRMs on my mechs in CW, for a different reason. That reason is, I don't always have line of sight to shoot with my direct fire weapons. So, while I reposition, I can at least still support my allies with what LRMs I have. Then, I'll move into direct line of sight and shoot that way as well when possible. I've also used LRMs to keep my mech alive longer, because I was already almost dead. So, while being near dead and having shared some armor, I can still contribute damage and assistance to the team without costing the team a mech. Better to continue to deal damage, than to just be dead.

As I've stated before, a lot of what LRMs can do depends upon what you wish to get out of them and how you use them.

View PostJumping Gigolo, on 20 August 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

P.S.

I have bad internet with 300+ ping). I still struggle hitting the right component even when leading aim. Almost impossible for me to hit fast mechs with normal srms coz most of the time will "teleport". Graphics will slow down very bad when "royals rumbling" with multiple mechs on the screen. and most of the time I need to play with a muted microphone hence TS is not really an advantage. still not an excuse for me to play in safe distance in CW. And You can bring lurms in CW and no one can prevent you from bringing those in CW. you can perform very good with LRM in CW but still it won't disprove the facts that:

1. It's not recommended for pugs.
2. The more lurms brought by your team in CW, the bigger chance of losing. (Same is true in QP).
3. Lurms won't carry the crucial matches.
4. Lurmers need others to function effectively.
5. LRM highlander will get ***** by a scouting arctic cheetah if the LRM highlander is left behind by his 11 other teammates who are regrouping at C4 in sulfurous rift :-P


I've had a bug where mechs will "flicker" in and out of existence (visually), sometimes leading me to make a movement into the entire enemy team because I couldn't see them, than promptly die as they suddenly render into the game right in front of my mech... Not common, but it's happened several times. (Often leaving my unit mates baffled until we realize it's happening...)

Anyway:
1. Depends upon their build. A few can help a PUG with the lack of communication. A boat load of them? Well, I consider boating LRMs to be too risky personally...
2. I have to disagree completely. I've fought several LRM teams that just picked up my entire team. We weren't expecting it, and by the time we realized what was happening, it was too late. They had already "naturally focused fired" with a lot of their team, vaporizing mechs. (I shall admit, I've seen this far more in QP group queue than in FP.)
3. You'd be surprised. I can recall a match just 3 weeks ago with my unit where the LRMs we had brought (we had a few besides myself) won us a crucial wave of combat, letting us win at "hold territory" for that match.
4. They do, yes. That is why they can work well in a "team oriented game". However, this is also why I don't boat them personally. I want to help the team, but at the same time I don't want to be reliant on just the team to help me. I don't boat so I can function well without a team, but I can function better within a team. Being a team focused game (and game mode)...
5. That would be the fault of the Highlander for boating LRMs, and the fault of the team for abandoning a teammate and letting him "get dead". A good team never fights alone. A good team will never leave a 1 on 1 to remain that way, and will bring more numbers on a target when possible.

#515 ManDaisy

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 12:21 PM

If you only bring lrms you suck. (lrm coward) If you only know how to use direct weapons you suck. (snipe coward). If you know how to properly play a mixed loadout and can see beyond the narrow eyes of your own mech then you are ok. Problem is ... everyone sucks.

#516 MovinTarget

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 12:24 PM

@Jumping Gigolo

I get your line of questioning to Tesunie, but he's one of the guys that seems pretty thoughtful about what he does (and say)... I don't think guys like him are the "problem" if you want to call anyone that (b/c when this post started, we were pre-CW3 and flush with players where now.... We gotta take what we can get!)

On your 44-44 example, one important detail is if either/both teams are actually communicating b/c as Tesunie said, if the LRM boats were smart enough to adequately space themselves to assist one another (i.e. 180+ meters apart) they could still have a chance.

There really is no difference between that LRM boat in the back and a PPC sniper just randomly potshotting w/o thinking of how to give advancing teammates cover fire, etc.

Bottom line is that LRM just become the most easily identifiable weakness... when things go south. Lots of people can't hit crap with guass/PPCs but you don't realize how little contact they made until the end of the game...

This is why I've softened my stance on this topic. If people are willing to try all weapons systems (and I mean REALLY TRY) that is all we can ask... there is a learning curve to this game so we have to account for that as well.

There is nothing wrong with providing anecdotal evidence of success/failure with a given system, provided factual evidence of their strengths and weaknesses, but in the end the people driving the mechs are more important than what the load out is.

I've seen guys forget to set up their decks before a drop and end up in all trials and still pull 1k dmg (not typical lol), because they've played those mechs/systems before and know how to make 'em work in a pinch.

Edited by MovinTarget, 22 August 2016 - 12:28 PM.


#517 MischiefSC

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 10:11 AM

View PostBiclor Moban, on 20 August 2016 - 08:32 PM, said:

How is it that this thread is still going on. Beat a dead horse much.


It keeps twitching. The only thing worse than the twitching is when it STOPS twitching. Haven't you seen anything about zombies?

It's when it's lying all still and you're going up to poke it that it leaps up and tries to bite you.

You know it's time to stop shooting when the mag is dry. No exceptions.



View PostKeshav Murali, on 21 August 2016 - 07:32 AM, said:


Names. Now.

I cannot play LRM boats worth crap, and I need to ask these jedis how they do it.


Jman5, Novakaine, Panic Button come to mind first for me. I figure there's probably 2 or 3 others.

First, every one of them will play from the front. They are shoulder to shoulder with everyone else on attack and defend. They are never 'in the back'.

Second, positioning. They are either in a position to 'finishing move' on people who pop into your firing line (wait until your teammates have shot him and he's moving back into cover so your missile incoming warning doesn't chase him out before your DF teammates have chewed him up so your volley catches him before he's fully in to cover) or as part of a flank to force the enemy OUT of cover.

Third, draw attention to pull enemies into your teammates. LRMs work best against bad opponents; leverage this. You're rarely going to play a team of 12 good players so pick out the bads who might just bull-rush the LRM boat and walk out of cover into 4 mechs and die. Your weapons are best against low hanging fruit so learn to focus on them so your teammates with direct fire can focus on the more dangerous enemies.

That's the stuff I can say off the top of my head. It's a lot of work to do well and, again, for the same effort you'll usually do better with direct fire. Some people have the mojo to make LRMs a solid performer *for them*. For the other 9,994 players out of 10,000 bringing LRMs sandbags their team and the enemy is overjoyed to see an easy kill or to have the attack that, if direct fire, would have cored them turn out to be LRMs splattering over 1/2 their mech or falling wide to the ground.

#518 Biclor Moban

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 09:31 PM

I am gladdened to see these last few blows to this horse. They show how productive, if not succinct this post has been.

Thank You all for your diligence and willingness to listen.

#519 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 07:39 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 23 August 2016 - 10:11 AM, said:

(...snip...)

First, every one of them will play from the front. They are shoulder to shoulder with everyone else on attack and defend. They are never 'in the back'.

Second, positioning. They are either in a position to 'finishing move' on people who pop into your firing line (wait until your teammates have shot him and he's moving back into cover so your missile incoming warning doesn't chase him out before your DF teammates have chewed him up so your volley catches him before he's fully in to cover) or as part of a flank to force the enemy OUT of cover.

Third, draw attention to pull enemies into your teammates. LRMs work best against bad opponents; leverage this. You're rarely going to play a team of 12 good players so pick out the bads who might just bull-rush the LRM boat and walk out of cover into 4 mechs and die. Your weapons are best against low hanging fruit so learn to focus on them so your teammates with direct fire can focus on the more dangerous enemies.

That's the stuff I can say off the top of my head. It's a lot of work to do well and, again, for the same effort you'll usually do better with direct fire. Some people have the mojo to make LRMs a solid performer *for them*.

(...snip...)


Having racked up more than 10m unused EXP and more than 2m Loyalty Points n my MDD LRM BattleMechs I can offer up a few points to MischiefSC's.

1.) Sharing Armor: I routinely serve in the front line / Skirmish ahead of the front line so as to coalesce the Enemy Line of Battle prematurely and in a position of disadvantage. Once I have lost all armor on 2 of three torsos, as a rule I cycle back into the Main Body continuing to support as best I am able and often enticing one or more Enemy BattleMechs out of position in their haste to finish me.

2.) I ALWAYS carry TAG. And I always find my own targets (at least until down to 60% and lacking Armor on 2 of 3 Torso areas). Piercing Enemy ECM and then targeting Enemy ECM Mechs is a priority for my use of TAG.

3.) An single LRM5 launch at 1000m is a fantastic way to "fish" for Enemy AMS when awaiting Enemy Attack / Counterattack on Faction Play maps and the Enemy has not yet come into Line of Sight or on Seismic Sensor.

4.) Having had played so many times (2m LP-worth) on the limited number of Faction Play maps, I have a good feel for what is targetable by my missiles and can rapidly bring fires in support of my team's flanks once all BattleMechs have been destroyed in front of my group. This is especially and uniquely valuable when on Defense or Hold Actions and the Enemy is Zerging Generators or has split their Attack / C-Attack into separate Axis of Advance.


I fully understand that "Haters are gonna Hate"... but there is value in Combined Arms Warfare (adding Indirect Fire to Direct Fire) and I am glad that PGI has enabled at least moderately effective replication of Combined Arms Warfare.

#520 MovinTarget

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 07:44 AM

This guy gets it... unfortunately, many don't, hence the hate...

Bottom line, if you are dropping alone, don't bring mechs that can't function effectively alone, because there is no guarantee the others on your team will know what to do with you if you can carry your own weight...





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