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Does Ams Work Against Srms?

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#1 invernomuto

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 01:05 PM

As per title, does AMS work against all type of missiles (SSRMs, SRMs, LRMs) or only against LRMs?
Could have some use against Streak Crows in scouting missions?

Thanks in advance,
D.

Edited by invernomuto, 02 May 2016 - 01:06 PM.


#2 Koniving

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 01:12 PM

Yes. AMS works against all missiles except Arrow IV -- which isn't in the game yet so we don't know if it will or not.

(This means it also works against NARCs).

LRMs have 1 health.
SRMs have 1.5 health.
Streaks have 1.5 health.
NARCs have 3 health.

One AMS delivers 1.5 damage per second without any bonuses. AMS overload makes it deal somewhere between 2 and 2.5 damage. (To be safe, figure it adds 0.5 damage/second per AMS).
Twin AMS delivers 3 damage but both AMS target the same missile (killing each one faster).
Three AMS, for mechs so inclined, deliver 4.5 damage per second but again attack the same target.

Does this help?

Note health number is per missile in the air.

To preempt this actually unasked question (which is surprising considering 4 years), a damaged missile isn't 'weaker' than a healthy missile. Either it's functional or destroyed, damaged won't affect its payload.

#3 DaFrog

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 01:15 PM

no. ams is essentially useless unless everyone is equipped with it.
spend the tonnage elsewhere.

#4 Koniving

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 01:15 PM

For the question you added:
Depends on the number of streaks.

AMS overload plus 2 AMS per mech would make you invincible to maybe 1 underarmed streakcrow. Your best defense is actually a mixture of ECM, being faster than 128 kph, and using mechs with exceptional torso twist like Jenners and Hunchbacks.

For killing the Streakcrow:
My suggestion is to take out either a leg to slow it down (and RUN!) or the right LEFT torso first -- this will have the most launchers.

(Fixed the side; his left. Your right.)

Edited by Koniving, 02 May 2016 - 02:51 PM.


#5 Koniving

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 01:19 PM

I think the Streakcrow situation wouldn't be so bad, if as I suggested 2 years ago, the deployment weight allowed is shared between all players involved (i.e. Say the allowed weight is 140 tons, that's 1 streakcrow, a Jenner IIC, and two Mist Lynxes max).

#6 S 0 L E N Y A

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 02:32 PM

View PostKoniving, on 02 May 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

For killing the Streakcrow:
My suggestion is to take out either a leg to slow it down (and RUN!) or the right torso first -- this will have the most launchers.


I think you mean left torso, since it holds 2 missile launchers. If you take that out you also take out the corresponding arm which means best case scenario for the crow is he is down to 2 launchers (and greatly reduced speed)

Other things to consider for fighting streak crows
- try to avoid engaging in open terrain. Streaks fire in a relatively straight vector, so if you are in area with a lot of mech height terrain you can cause a lot missiles to get blocked. This leads to my 2nd point
- radar dep. Run to cover or out of line of sight and they lose their lock.
-take advantage of streak missile weaknesses. If you have weapons that can outrange streaks, engage a streakcrow outside of 360m. Streaks have a very slow reload time and also spread their missiles over your entire mech. This means twisting to spread damage is not going to do much for you because the weapon does the spreading for you. As such this gives you more time to focus on their weak areas and pick them apart.

#7 Koniving

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 02:45 PM

View PostBoogie138, on 02 May 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

I think you mean left torso, since it holds 2 missile launchers. If you take that out you also take out the corresponding arm which means best case scenario for the crow is he is down to 2 launchers (and greatly reduced speed)

Yes, his left (it's on your right when you shoot him).

Can also try jumping over them; just did this with an Urbanmech to great success (but this is because I had 360 degrees of torso twist and shot his ultra weak rear torso near the end of the jump).

Edit: On a pure streak crow, the best scenario is he is down 3 launchers (1 arm, 2 torso).

Edited by Koniving, 02 May 2016 - 02:47 PM.


#8 Void Angel

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 03:10 PM

View PostKoniving, on 02 May 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

For the question you added:
Depends on the number of streaks.

AMS overload plus 2 AMS per mech would make you invincible to maybe 1 underarmed streakcrow. Your best defense is actually a mixture of ECM, being faster than 128 kph, and using mechs with exceptional torso twist like Jenners and Hunchbacks.

While I never happened to be on a team that had enough of them (I still don't have a Firestarter), I'm told that a wave of Firestarter S variants operating in close formation and with all the modules were functionally immune to Clan Streakcrows - Back in the Day when Light rushing was still a thing in Faction Play.

PS: AMS is not useless unless there are no missiles on the enemy team - and even then only costs you about 1.5 tons. Vaccinate your @#$^ Battlemechs.

#9 Doctor Dinosaur

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 03:14 AM

Quote

One AMS delivers 1.5 damage per second without any bonuses. AMS overload makes it deal somewhere between 2 and 2.5 damage. (To be safe, figure it adds 0.5 damage/second per AMS).
Twin AMS delivers 3 damage but both AMS target the same missile (killing each one faster).
Three AMS, for mechs so inclined, deliver 4.5 damage per second but again attack the same target.

Being in danger of derailing the thread: Does that mean tripple AMS + module would be overkill and useless?

#10 invernomuto

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 03:57 AM

Thanks for the answers. Another question: is there a probability that AMS will hit the missiles or hits are certain?
PS they changed the the AMS module values in the latest patch...

#11 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 04:27 AM

View Postinvernomuto, on 03 May 2016 - 03:57 AM, said:

Thanks for the answers. Another question: is there a probability that AMS will hit the missiles or hits are certain?
PS they changed the the AMS module values in the latest patch...

the way AMS works is it shoots any missiles which come into range, prioritising those locked onto you, the problem is that SRMs do not lock, so are considered low priority targets for the AMS, they also fly faster LRMs, so AMS is far more effective against LRMs than SRMs or SSRMs

#12 rolly

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 05:32 AM

View PostDoctor Dinosaur, on 03 May 2016 - 03:14 AM, said:

Being in danger of derailing the thread: Does that mean tripple AMS + module would be overkill and useless?


From what I've seen, running a Uller-C with triple AMS is very good at locking down an area and covering buddy mechs when concentrated LRMing is going on. On them and/or you. Its good in a pinch too to save some dork who gets lit up by the entire enemy team.

However it should be noted you have to put yourself in the way for full effect. Either way its great for blunting incoming missiles, it may not negate it but its an added layer of defence.

Edited by rolly, 03 May 2016 - 05:34 AM.


#13 rolly

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 06:21 AM

View PostRogue Jedi, on 03 May 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

the way AMS works is it shoots any missiles which come into range, prioritising those locked onto you, the problem is that SRMs do not lock, so are considered low priority targets for the AMS, they also fly faster LRMs, so AMS is far more effective against LRMs than SRMs or SSRMs


Complete digression - A Spoof mode for ECM would be interesting, or be able to switch priority to ALL or SELF. It could probably be less effective but engage multiple swarms. The spoofer would simply be an aggro button, that redirects the missiles to you instead of the intended target.

It would be a perfect example of more indepth Info Warfare

But yeah. AMS. Its like an Am-Ex Card - "Don't leave home without it" (Insert Meme here)

#14 PFC Carsten

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 06:28 AM

View PostKoniving, on 02 May 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

Yes. AMS works against all missiles except Arrow IV -- which isn't in the game yet so we don't know if it will or not.

(This means it also works against NARCs).

LRMs have 1 health.
SRMs have 1.5 health.
Streaks have 1.5 health.
NARCs have 3 health.

One AMS delivers 1.5 damage per second without any bonuses. AMS overload makes it deal somewhere between 2 and 2.5 damage. (To be safe, figure it adds 0.5 damage/second per AMS).
Twin AMS delivers 3 damage but both AMS target the same missile (killing each one faster).
Three AMS, for mechs so inclined, deliver 4.5 damage per second but again attack the same target.


From the patch notes:
http://mwomercs.com/...-1465-19apr2016

Weapon Tuning
AMS Overload Module
• No longer increases AMS Rate Of Fire.
• Now increases per bullet damage from 3.5 to 6.0.

^^ This seems to imply, basic AMS is already firing at 3.5 DMG per bullet. Maybe someone should twitter Russ how AMS actually works?

#15 WildVector

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 06:57 AM

This seems to be focused on the new game mode, so here's a summary.

IF you are on inner sphere and can use dual AMS you should. AS you have a +90% chance of facing missile geared opponents.

IF you take a single AMS you'll barely notice it, takes 2-3 in the same vicinity to be worth it.

IF you are in a pre-made group, you SHOULD all spare 1,5-2 tons and take it.

IF you are on clan, you MAY risk a triple AMS+ECM KITFOX, BUT BE AWARE they are very 'squishy'. IF they aren't targeted they are very decent, BUT on a full melee against SMART opponents it dies faster than a RAVEN.

Personally i have only stumbled on full laser opponent premades in a 1-20 ratio, and I have never faced a full pug group of laser only. Do consider that I'm currently on a CLAN subcontracted merc unit, BUT I have ran 30+ scouting matches daily.

#16 Vlad Striker

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 08:55 AM

Single AMS is no effective but... Some mechs have AMS quirks + modules and multiply this on 12. This will be unpenetrable. But people don't think at this key.

#17 p4r4g0n

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 08:59 AM

To expand a little upon what has already been provided, AMS effectiveness can be reduced by the range from which the SRMs are fired.

In actual gameplay, individuals with high latency may find AMS ineffective. This was tested in a private match with AMS overload module equipped and AMS could not even stop a single narc fired from 450m. One of the reasons I stopped carrying AMS on most of my mechs.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 03 May 2016 - 10:47 AM.


#18 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 09:19 AM

View PostWildVector, on 03 May 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:

IF you are on clan, you MAY risk a triple AMS+ECM KITFOX, BUT BE AWARE they are very 'squishy'. IF they aren't targeted they are very decent, BUT on a full melee against SMART opponents it dies faster than a RAVEN.

also you can do 3 AMS on a Nova (-S CT + -A side torsos)

#19 Koniving

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 11:45 AM

View PostPFC Carsten, on 03 May 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:


From the patch notes:
http://mwomercs.com/...-1465-19apr2016

Weapon Tuning
AMS Overload Module
• No longer increases AMS Rate Of Fire.
• Now increases per bullet damage from 3.5 to 6.0.

^^ This seems to imply, basic AMS is already firing at 3.5 DMG per bullet. Maybe someone should twitter Russ how AMS actually works?


Think it was worded wrong. Also AMS overload seems to rapidly increase ammo consumption if it was per bullet it would one, be unnecessary as narc is the healthiest target with 3 HP.

I see this is ultra recent and additional consumption is gone. What happens if everyone brings one to 3 AMS now with this? What happens to regular ams?

(Btw evidently reg AMS was upgraded to 3.5 damage per second some patches ago, keep forgetting about it but was in response to so many lrm5 boats that would overwhelm AMS to uselessness.)

Still, take it as per second, then it makes sense. Will ask for clarification.

Even then... That's basically making you invincible if you have 2 AMS. And against SRM boats that's 3 AMS for invincibility with no faster consumption. Before it increased consumption speed to give you about 1.5 times to double the protection. (So my previous post corrected but prior to this patch is 4.5 to 6, assume 4.5 to be safe.)

As you can imagine this really makes me worry about what is going on with balancing. PGI hasn't got the best track record for smart decisions. (Strike this I forgot about old AMS increase so this isn't dramatically superior to reg AMS.)

Edited by Koniving, 03 May 2016 - 11:53 AM.


#20 Koniving

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 01:29 PM

View PostYlca, on 03 May 2016 - 01:22 PM, said:


I've noted that AMS does not make you invincible, but due to the property of travel time is more effective based on 2 variables

Thank you for agreeing -- and just in case if you were confused by what you quoted:

I was referring to "IF each bullet did 6 damage." At rates of 30 to 50 bullets a second... missiles having 1 to 3 health. Think about it. Posted Image

Now imagine this... where every single bullet can destroy Any Missile on contact, at a rate of the high end of 90 to 150 bullets per second (with old AMS rates) for the Kitfox and 60 to 100 per second for the Firestarter.


O.o; Or because almost no missiles there (sad face), B33f's AMS troll vid.


Edited by Koniving, 03 May 2016 - 01:42 PM.






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