98 replies to this topic

[meteorol]

Gyrok, on 29 May 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:

I have to say...after the crap I saw in the T1 solo queue earlier...I seriously doubt that lots of people in T3 T1 should actually be in T3 T1.

Fixed that one for you.

I'd guess plenty of those "omg how can this be anything but T5" guys are in T1 by now. If tiers would be shown after the match (not saying they should) we would probably be in for a harsh awakening, seeing the rampant terribadness in T1. But i guess that's the downside of making PSR a XP bar.

Edited by meteorol, 29 May 2016 - 11:51 PM.

[Dogstar]

Zibmo>So I'm waffling on the name-and-shame of the in-game PSR.

You should show your tier in the forum then.

[James Warren]

I turned off my display of tier so that I don't see it*. I don't see how making them visible at the end of the match would really improve your situation in any way besides helping you to justify the feelings you have about your team mates.

Even good players have bad games, plus the tier system isn't always an accurate indicator of skill level anyway.

*

Spoiler

As far as I'm concerned, the tier system should just be 'under the hood'. So long as it improves my chances of facing suitably challenging opponents I'm happy, regardless of which tier I end up in (which is incidentally Tier 2 and slowly climbing, but I don't consider myself that great of a player)

[PhoenixFire55]

I Zeratul I, on 29 May 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Somehow, someway, I get the feeling the matchmaker might not be working the way it was designed to.

Or more likely you don't understand what it was designed to do. If you think it is to give you quality matchmaking with people of your skill level you are wrong.

PSR is just an exp bar anyhow, wait a couple months and that dude will be shooting SRMs at targets 1km away while proudly wearing a T1.

That said, I was advocating the mandatory display of tiers for all players in all in-game scoreboards.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 30 May 2016 - 02:37 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

James Warren, on 30 May 2016 - 01:06 AM, said:

Even good players have bad games, plus the tier system isn't always an accurate indicator of skill level anyway.

True, but when you see a certain T1 suck every time you meet him it raises questions ...

[Davers]

With the way PSR works I think tier 5 is probably the smallest tier in the game. Compared to LoL, where 60% of the playerbase are the equivalent of tier 4 or lower, and the tier 1 equivalent has only 3-5%.

Maybe that's how PGI got their "highest skilled" slogan, by inflating the upper tiers?

As far as I can tell the only functional part of the MM is keeping tier 5-4 seperate from tier 1.

The tiers are really just another participation trophy for playing a lot of games, and not a real skill ranking system.

[StumbleBee]

Why was the Elo system scuttled? That type of skill ranking seems to be what everyone wants.

[Davers]

StumbleBee, on 30 May 2016 - 03:48 AM, said:

Why was the Elo system scuttled? That type of skill ranking seems to be what everyone wants.

The community wanted an Elo system that took 'player skill' into account. Now we have an Elo system that is based on damage (regardless of source- buying arty directly increases your rating for example) and makes rising in tiers inevitable. Quite simply, it is too easy to avoid losing points.

[Nyte Kitsune]

Tier system is a joke.. period. Too easy for new players to get to Tier 1, who have absolutely no skill. They managed to get lucky have halfway decent matches where they were on the winning side and quickly rise thru the Tiers. Are some of them good, sure, but I've seen T1 ranked players in Atlases who had no clue what they were doing.. LRM's within 100m, Med Lasers and AC 20 at 600m+ Never even fired SRM's within the 100m range.

Sure, I'm listed as Tier 3, does that mean I suck, nope, I been here a long time (Longer if you count the account I beta'd the game on), Are my stats horrible... Yup, admittedly that was mostly in part to trying to play a MWO on a horrible machine, after I got this one I noted a drastic increase in my scores, sadly, I pretty much ruined my rating with that other PC and getting to higher Tiers is a grind now, worse when I get those 10+ game losing streaks due to lopsided matches or teammate's that think they're Rambo.

[Ted Wayz]

I Zeratul I, on 29 May 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Today I witnessed teammates trying to hit targets at 1,000 meters with SRM's.

Literally getting lock. Firing LRM's. Then firing SRM's. Repeatedly. In the way one might expect someone who has never played this game before in their life to do.

In theory, I'm not supposed to be in games with tier 4 and tier 5 players.

Somehow, someway, I get the feeling the matchmaker might not be working the way it was designed to.

Again someone who mistakes PSR for skillz.

PSR is a measure of how much you play, not skill. Trust me, there are some very bad people in the upper tiers who just play an awful lot.

[Alan Davion]

Death Proof, on 29 May 2016 - 08:56 PM, said:

There are lots of people in tiers they do not belong...because the tier system is a one-way ticket up.

Oh for Christ's sake. The PSR bar is not a one way ticket up. I can't believe people still think this! The sheer fact that you can LOSE progress on the bar automatically makes it not upwards biased.

World of Warships for example, now that is an upwards biased system, but, it did the tier system right by tying it to the ships, not the player. Just yesterday I actually saw my first Tier 9 ships in my newly purchased Tier 7 Atlanta cruiser after playing at least a dozen or so matches over the weekend with it.

[oldradagast]

MoonUnitBeta, on 29 May 2016 - 11:00 PM, said:

IMO the only reason people want to see ratings is so they can justify their complaints.

Nobody should concern themselves about PSR ratings because they aren't even a reliable metric to gauge anything off of.

Basically. If PSR means nothing and is a upward biased XP bar, how does displaying it help?

While matchmaking does have issues, name and shame - which we all know is exactly what would happen with displayed PSR's - is not helpful. If I recall, some other games have ways for a team to determine a person's skill level even at the start of the match (either officially or through plug-ins) and it always results in ugliness, particularly from higher-tier players who don't want "lowly scum" in their game.

More effort should be spent on helping new players improve their skill vs. shaming them by showing off their lack of experience to the team, IMHO.

Edited by oldradagast, 30 May 2016 - 08:37 AM.

[Metus regem]

Gyrok, on 29 May 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:

I have to say...after the crap I saw in the T1 solo queue earlier...I seriously doubt that lots of people in T3 should actually be in T3.

Got to remeber Gyrok, that PSR rewards being a bad shot and doing stupid amounts of damage. 50% of your damage is the base for your score, so using DoT weapons or LRMs/SRMs/SSRMs/LB's will make you climb mount try hard faster than PPFLD weapons...

I took my Dakka Wolf, did a few games with 1K+ damage 3 KMDD, and losses this weekend, and my PSR did not change much as my score was consistently around 600. I took out my WHM-6R(S) did my usual 550 Damage matches with 4KMDD, yet getting match score of around 400, so you tell me, what mech had a larger impact on the game, the Warhammer or the Dire Wolf? I know what MM says, but I don't think that is reality of what happened in the match....

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

The "Tier System" fix is easy.

You can only play +/- 1 tier above/below your own tier.

There, that literally fixes the entire problem.

Tier 5's play with tier 5's 4's, 4's play with 4's, 5's and 3's, 3's play with 3's, 2's and 4's, 2's play with 2's 1's and 3's and 1's play with 1's and 2's.

That's all it takes, that gives the matchmaker, with the exception of tier 5's and 1's, 3 pools of players for it to pull from for matches, that should be plenty.

[Alan Davion]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 30 May 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

The "Tier System" fix is easy.

You can only play +/- 1 tier above/below your own tier.

There, that literally fixes the entire problem.

Tier 5's play with tier 5's 4's, 4's play with 4's, 5's and 3's, 3's play with 3's, 2's and 4's, 2's play with 2's 1's and 3's and 1's play with 1's and 2's.

That's all it takes, that gives the matchmaker, with the exception of tier 5's and 1's, 3 pools of players for it to pull from for matches, that should be plenty.

Question is, do have enough players in each tier to make sure a system like that will actually work?

[Escef]

I Zeratul I, on 29 May 2016 - 06:15 PM, said:

That said, I forgot tier 2's could be grouped with tier 4's. I thought it was setup so that tier 1, 2, and 3 could be grouped together and tier 3, 4, and 5 could be grouped.

Death Proof, on 29 May 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

It's a range from 2-tiers up and 2-tiers down; that is:

T1 fights T1, T2, T3

T2 fights T1, T2, T3, T4

T3 fights T1, T2, T3, T4, T5

T4 fights T2, T3, T4, T5

T5 fights T3, T4, T5

Actual matches can have tier content of:

1-3
2-4
3-5

It's possible to have tighter tier distribution than this in a match (for example, nothing but tier 4 and 5 players), but you will not see wider tier distribution than this in the solo queue. Group queue can't force these limitations due to the fact that there is currently no mechanism to prevent a tier 1 and a tier 5 from being in the same group.

[DAYLEET]

Maybe the guy came back home dead drunk and still wanted to get some mwo before bed? Maybe his friend was trying the game.

Im pretty sure everyone in this thread could come up with a way to calculate a player skill and at the same time disagree with everyone else. We are asking cold numbers to tell us how someone is good at 12vs12, unless this was 1 on 1 it will never work.

I also can guarantee you that we are not told everything about psr. Lately i stop playing lights and fast meds and stopped placing good uavs and early spoting and trying to just be a nuisance to the enemy team or assist other lone players and while i achieve more damage and kills on my Assault, my score is not better and often lower than when i do less on my light/med. That means the game at least knows the difference between a team player that helps in a meaningful way and a damage leecher but in the grand scheme of things i don't think it matters because the pool of people is too small, because you cant force anyone to not do stupid things because they are bored.

I personally don't know how long i can take watching people do the exact same thing every single match and it seriously impact how i play. I realise that half the problem is that some places on the map provide better cover from lrm while taking you closer to the enemy team and people only take that way. The other half of the problem is the players who enjoy playing rail shooters.

Edited by DAYLEET, 30 May 2016 - 09:19 AM.

[Idealsuspect]

Death Proof, on 29 May 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

It's a range from 2-tiers up and 2-tiers down; that is:

T1 fights T1, T2, T3

T2 fights T1, T2, T3, T4

T3 fights T1, T2, T3, T4, T5

T4 fights T2, T3, T4, T5

T5 fights T3, T4, T5

Yea everybody know this but what about if you remplace "fights" by "carry"

Tier1 may carry Tier4?
If there isnt Tier1 pilot(s) in opposite team but only Tier 2-3...

It's possible, didn't broke previous rules in quote and i didnt have a final answer about if it happend or not.

Edited by Idealsuspect, 30 May 2016 - 09:32 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Alan Davion, on 30 May 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

Question is, do have enough players in each tier to make sure a system like that will actually work?

Well, that's a good question, but tier 4's shouldn't be fighting tier 2's. and T1's shouldn't be fighting T3's... guess you'll just have to deal with the wait times if you're so 1337.

Or you know, you could go play FW, and actually populate the gamemode.

[Meathook]

James Warren, on 30 May 2016 - 01:06 AM, said:

I turned off my display of tier so that I don't see it*. I don't see how making them visible at the end of the match would really improve your situation in any way besides helping you to justify the feelings you have about your team mates.

Even good players have bad games, plus the tier system isn't always an accurate indicator of skill level anyway.

*

Spoiler

As far as I'm concerned, the tier system should just be 'under the hood'. So long as it improves my chances of facing suitably challenging opponents I'm happy, regardless of which tier I end up in (which is incidentally Tier 2 and slowly climbing, but I don't consider myself that great of a player)

While I see where you are coming from, and hassling low tier players might occurs, this coin has two sides. If one knew that players that didn't perform well were tiered low one might get less salty about that player and see it more as a problem of bad matchmaking.

And this is what I guess PGI doesn't want us to know. Just like they removed the player counter, they don't seem to want to sahre any information with us, that would make it obvious to us that things aren't working the way they should be. As long as we don't know the tiers we get matched with, we cannot tell PGI, that it's not working as intended, we can only guess. As we can only guess, PGI can tell us we have no idea and are guessing wrong and nothing needs to be fixed.

It would be nice to at least have the option to show tier on the scoreboard just like on the forums, so people could contribute to MM research, if they wanted to.