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Mandatory Psr Tiers On End Game Scoreboard


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#41 Zibmo

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 10:14 AM

View PostDogstar, on 30 May 2016 - 12:00 AM, said:

Zibmo>So I'm waffling on the name-and-shame of the in-game PSR.

You should show your tier in the forum then.


How is that remotely pertinent. Bad play is bad play. I am T3, if it matters. When we are rolled 12-0 and my team does under 1400 points of damage, there is no getting around that bad play. Otherwise, the MM is an embarrassment.

#42 DAYLEET

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 10:17 AM

View PostIdealsuspect, on 30 May 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

what about if you remplace "fights" by "carry"

Why don't we just call it "try to win"

I think "Carry" was introduced when people blamed elo for placing good players with bad players, as if that meant that the good player was the only one that counted and the other team only had good players(yeah right)... It's negative and just a way for insecure people to deject the blame on others.

These kind of games where a guy gets the win always happened except now they are negative Carry rather than Epic win from the good guy. It's astounding how we turn many part of gaming into negativity in MWO. I personally never seen that in other games. aside normal trash talk which is none existent in mwo btw. How weird is that, MWO has next to no trash talking compared to other fps but every thing someone has to do to win is negative, aim better, position better, build better, chassis played, everything is used as an excuse for a loss. Id hate to be working for that player base.



View PostZibmo, on 30 May 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

When we are rolled 12-0 and my team does under 1400 points of damage, there is no getting around that bad play. Otherwise, the MM is an embarrassment.

Because you think the MM is responsible for how the players did that particular match? With all the variable that comes into play you still think the MM has that much weight when it comes to the team that will win?

Edited by DAYLEET, 30 May 2016 - 10:22 AM.


#43 Zibmo

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 10:25 AM

View PostDavers, on 30 May 2016 - 05:58 AM, said:

The community wanted an Elo system that took 'player skill' into account. Now we have an Elo system that is based on damage (regardless of source- buying arty directly increases your rating for example) and makes rising in tiers inevitable. Quite simply, it is too easy to avoid losing points.


I don't think that's necessarily bad. I think it should be based on chassis, or at least weight class. The bigger problem in my mind is that it still doesn't really matter how well you play. It is mostly based on win ratio.

#44 Idealsuspect

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 10:25 AM

View PostDAYLEET, on 30 May 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

Why don't we just call it "try to win"


No just re-read my post and replace words in the quote i was talking about...

I dont wanna debate about who is carry who or stuff like that there or in my previous post
I want understand totally how this MM work and if some tier1 pilots can be mixed with tier4 pilots in same team (also tier1-2-3-4 team ) IF other team have only tier 2-3 pilots ( also without tier1 or tier4 players ).

And if they are mixed like this well it's obvious that tier1 pilots will have to carry thoses tier4 pilots for win >>> no offense, just reality....

#45 WildeKarde

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 10:30 AM

I don't agree we should see tier in the endgame, it's only use would be for someone to throw an insult to someone they didn't believe performed well enough.

In terms of tier advancement I don't think anyone doing their cadet bonus should be able to be higher than tier 4 on completion - no matter if they played 25 games doing 1500 damage and 12 kills in every game. Cap the best new players in tier 4 max and others in tier 5.

As for advancing I think everyone should be able to get to tier 3 but getting above that needs consistently better performances and they need to keep getting those scores to stay there. Tier 3 lets you potentially play against anyone so its a decent place for most players.

#46 Zibmo

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 10:42 AM

View PostDAYLEET, on 30 May 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

Why don't we just call it "try to win"

I think "Carry" was introduced when people blamed elo for placing good players with bad players, as if that meant that the good player was the only one that counted and the other team only had good players(yeah right)... It's negative and just a way for insecure people to deject the blame on others.

These kind of games where a guy gets the win always happened except now they are negative Carry rather than Epic win from the good guy. It's astounding how we turn many part of gaming into negativity in MWO. I personally never seen that in other games. aside normal trash talk which is none existent in mwo btw. How weird is that, MWO has next to no trash talking compared to other fps but every thing someone has to do to win is negative, aim better, position better, build better, chassis played, everything is used as an excuse for a loss. Id hate to be working for that player base.




Because you think the MM is responsible for how the players did that particular match? With all the variable that comes into play you still think the MM has that much weight when it comes to the team that will win?


No, that's not what I said. I said, "Otherwise, the MM is an embarrassment." That means that either my teammates were awful but of sufficient PSR, or the MM put my T4-5 teammates up against T1-2.

#47 DAYLEET

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 10:48 AM

View PostIdealsuspect, on 30 May 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:


No just re-read my post and replace words in the quote i was talking about...

I dont wanna debate about who is carry who or stuff like that there or in my previous post
I want understand totally how this MM work and if some tier1 pilots can be mixed with tier4 pilots in same team (also tier1-2-3-4 team ) IF other team have only tier 2-3 pilots ( also without tier1 or tier4 players ).

And if they are mixed like this well it's obvious that tier1 pilots will have to carry thoses tier4 pilots for win >>> no offense, just reality....


The other team is in the same boat as you, we are told the mm separate tier by two side rank and so we should believe it.

I know we arent told everything, in fact, i reported often in the forum that the waiting time and "valving/tiering" didnt work based on my own observation, my own timing with a chrono and knowing the tier of the usual people i played with and ofcourse assumtions of how things should work. Much later Russ would state that the Tiering was per player and not per team "DOH" confirming my reports except that it was working as intended and not broken. We all assumed it was per team because that part had no been explained. The separating of t4 and t1 has been explained many times already, i have no reason to not trust them. Releasing all the info about psr and the mm would push people to game the system further depending how it was created.

And if, for arguments sake, the player base is so bad that the MM is actually putting t4 with t1 then what? it's not like we have a choice, not if we want to play the game. If you ask me, the MM should enforce weight class restriction and never open the valve for weight queues, let the heavies and assault wait rather than opening the valve for them. Only open the valve when all 4 queues as so low as to prevent a drop.

#48 Idealsuspect

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 11:56 AM

View PostDAYLEET, on 30 May 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

The separating of t4 and t1 has been explained many times already, i have no reason to not trust them.


Yea i agree with all of this
But "the separating of t4 and t1" was only about tier 1 pilot will never fight a tier 4 pilot

It doesnt mean they can't be on same side if opposite team havent any tier 1 or tier 4 pilots, in this case "The separating of t4 and t1" fighting rule isn't break you know what i mean.. ?

#49 Alan Davion

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 12:01 PM

View PostCMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 30 May 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

Or you know, you could go play FW, and actually populate the gamemode.


If CW/FW were actually "WORTH" playing, instead of being nothing but a glorified MOBA clone with Mech skins, maybe people would play it more. Until PGI gets that fact through their iron-thick skulls, CW/FW will continue to be a ghost town with only the most hardcore people playing the same matches against the same people.

Even if the entire population of people that have MWO installed got on CW right now I don't think it would change the fact that the game mode is slower than flipping molasses in January.

If CW/FW were more like Planetside 2 somehow, then maybe it would be more worth it to the player base to play it.

#50 DAYLEET

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 12:45 PM

View PostIdealsuspect, on 30 May 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

you know what i mean.. ?

Yes i understand now, that would be some grade A lawyer **** right there. "but we only said they wouldnt play against". I dont have the motivation to go back and make sure their statement actually have holes to be used like that, or even care.


View PostAlan Davion, on 30 May 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

If CW/FW were more like Planetside 2 somehow, then maybe it would be more worth it to the player base to play it.

one can dream, it's pretty much why we hang around here anyways.

Edited by DAYLEET, 30 May 2016 - 12:45 PM.


#51 Gyrok

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 01:16 PM

View Postmeteorol, on 29 May 2016 - 11:51 PM, said:


Fixed that one for you.

I'd guess plenty of those "omg how can this be anything but T5" guys are in T1 by now. If tiers would be shown after the match (not saying they should) we would probably be in for a harsh awakening, seeing the rampant terribadness in T1. But i guess that's the downside of making PSR a XP bar.


If the vindicator I saw in solo queue last night with 3 MGs, 2 flamers, and an ASRM6...who spent half the match firing flamers and MGs into a canyon wall on canyon network (to the point he ran out of MG ammo before I started spectating)...is somehow in Tier 1. I will agree with your sentiment...(he did 61 damage in VND-1X)

However, I think it is far too easy to reach tier 3. I think lots of people who are casuals can end up there by simply being carried by better groups/teams. Tier 2 is a bigger grind, and they will end up fizzling out there, or getting stuck in high tier 3 until they start to figure things out.

My issue is the following: People still figuring the game out should be stuck in tier 5. In a tier 1 solo queue match, I should never see a player like the guy in the vindicator.

Edited by Gyrok, 30 May 2016 - 01:16 PM.


#52 Trauglodyte

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 01:32 PM

View PostGyrok, on 30 May 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:


If the vindicator I saw in solo queue last night with 3 MGs, 2 flamers, and an ASRM6...who spent half the match firing flamers and MGs into a canyon wall on canyon network (to the point he ran out of MG ammo before I started spectating)...is somehow in Tier 1. I will agree with your sentiment...(he did 61 damage in VND-1X)

However, I think it is far too easy to reach tier 3. I think lots of people who are casuals can end up there by simply being carried by better groups/teams. Tier 2 is a bigger grind, and they will end up fizzling out there, or getting stuck in high tier 3 until they start to figure things out.

My issue is the following: People still figuring the game out should be stuck in tier 5. In a tier 1 solo queue match, I should never see a player like the guy in the vindicator.


It is too easy to reach tier 3. The amount of experience for each level should be the same and it should be the obnoxious length, with an additional half added, of tier 1. Going from tier 5 to tier 3 in 20 games played is stupid and it hoses all of the people that actually enjoy the challenge of this game.

I can't crawl through the monitor into the rooms of the bads that play this game and teach them how to not be bad. Dammit, PGI should at least insulate those of us that don't want to be hampered by these players. Plus, they get to play with folks of equivalent skill, thus making them better, hopefully, as their skill grows. What good is it getting tossed in with Emperyan, 228, etc. players? Hell, I've been playing this game since inception, near about, and I sometimes wonder when I see those folks on the other side. I have things to learn and get better at so I enjoy the challenge and the result. But, I don't think those guys want to see someone 30 games into the game on their team. I know that I don't.

#53 Death Proof

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 02:37 PM

View PostAlan Davion, on 30 May 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:


Oh for Christ's sake. The PSR bar is not a one way ticket up. I can't believe people still think this! The sheer fact that you can LOSE progress on the bar automatically makes it not upwards biased.


They think this because it's true; it's virtually unheard of for players to lose progress unless they suck beyond all comprehension or are intentionally trying to tank their PSR.

The progress bar slows down exponentially the closer you get to the top, but it still progresses.

#54 Alan Davion

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 04:13 PM

View PostDeath Proof, on 30 May 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:


They think this because it's true; it's virtually unheard of for players to lose progress unless they suck beyond all comprehension or are intentionally trying to tank their PSR.

The progress bar slows down exponentially the closer you get to the top, but it still progresses.


It also slows right the F*** down if you got screwed over in the switch from ELO to PSR like I did.

I got placed literally at the bottom of Tier 5 when the game switched from ELO to PSR and it's flipping ridiculous trying to claw my way out of there.

The switch from ELO to PSR should have necessitated a stat wipe and then let the chips fall where they may.

Now if I'd ended up in Tier 5 after a stat wipe, that'd be one thing and I could probably accept it, but just getting dumped there immediately is the highest form of BS I've seen from PGI and MWO.

#55 ilKhan_OrHan

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 04:53 PM

Not everyone will reach Tier 1. There are Founders getting wiped out in 2016 like it is their first time playing in Alpha testing. Some people are still using joysticks like it is MechWarrior 2, missing almost all their shots. Some people think their love of the old TT translates into a competitive online PvP only game, only to receive a rude awakening. New HBS game is more their speed.

Lot of folks can't move the experience bar consistently to raise their tier level, so Tier 1 really means Tier 1. Not Tier 1 by default because you played long enough for hundreds of hours.

#56 Alan Davion

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 05:50 PM

View PostilKhan_OrHan, on 30 May 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

Not everyone will reach Tier 1. There are Founders getting wiped out in 2016 like it is their first time playing in Alpha testing. Some people are still using joysticks like it is MechWarrior 2, missing almost all their shots. Some people think their love of the old TT translates into a competitive online PvP only game, only to receive a rude awakening. New HBS game is more their speed.

Lot of folks can't move the experience bar consistently to raise their tier level, so Tier 1 really means Tier 1. Not Tier 1 by default because you played long enough for hundreds of hours.


Hence my statement that the switch from ELO to PSR should have necessitated a stat wipe, start everyone in the middle of Tier 3 and see where the chips fall from there.

#57 Mystere

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 05:58 PM

View PostilKhan_OrHan, on 30 May 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

Some people are still using joysticks like it is MechWarrior 2 ...


Ahem!

There are joysticks:

Posted Image

and there are JOYSTICKs:

Posted Image

As for steering wheels:

Posted Image

Edited by Mystere, 30 May 2016 - 06:03 PM.


#58 Zibmo

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 06:06 PM

View PostGyrok, on 30 May 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:


If the vindicator I saw in solo queue last night with 3 MGs, 2 flamers, and an ASRM6...who spent half the match firing flamers and MGs into a canyon wall on canyon network (to the point he ran out of MG ammo before I started spectating)...is somehow in Tier 1. I will agree with your sentiment...(he did 61 damage in VND-1X)

However, I think it is far too easy to reach tier 3. I think lots of people who are casuals can end up there by simply being carried by better groups/teams. Tier 2 is a bigger grind, and they will end up fizzling out there, or getting stuck in high tier 3 until they start to figure things out.

My issue is the following: People still figuring the game out should be stuck in tier 5. In a tier 1 solo queue match, I should never see a player like the guy in the vindicator.


I think the problem is a hard one to fix. I think the tier system is practically useless as it is. But they (PGI) don't seem to be able to figure out how to balance scoring (not mechs, just scoring) such that their heavily proclaimed "Information Warfare" has any place. Because right now it's Kills, Damage, Assist with Win deciding more than the other 3 combined. So, it's either individual score, or team score. With other elements of the game included. But right now, it's all of the above in unappetizing combinations.

#59 ilKhan_OrHan

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 11:14 PM

View PostAlan Davion, on 30 May 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

Hence my statement that the switch from ELO to PSR should have necessitated a stat wipe, start everyone in the middle of Tier 3 and see where the chips fall from there.

They say you get to tier 3 fast if you are one of the better players. The problem here lies with you.

View PostMystere, on 30 May 2016 - 05:58 PM, said:

Ahem!

There are joysticks:

and there are JOYSTICKs:


You have approximately equal chance of aiming accurately with either. I know a lot of MechWarrior fans like to use something that resembles the latter, but the fact is K+M is far superior for accuracy. I used a Thrustmaster back in the day too for games, but I won't delude myself to believe I will have an edge in modern games with one.

#60 Galenit

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 12:18 AM

View PostilKhan_OrHan, on 30 May 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

Not everyone will reach Tier 1. There are Founders getting wiped out in 2016 like it is their first time playing in Alpha testing. Some people are still using joysticks like it is MechWarrior 2, missing almost all their shots. Some people think their love of the old TT translates into a competitive online PvP only game, only to receive a rude awakening. New HBS game is more their speed.

Lot of folks can't move the experience bar consistently to raise their tier level, so Tier 1 really means Tier 1. Not Tier 1 by default because you played long enough for hundreds of hours.

How?

I had a stroke (1,5 years ago) and still have some problems,
i use mostly a narc raven (sometimes some older mechs with older builds, no meta),
i am old and play mostly stoned,
i play only for fun and relaxing, competition is for the rl where it pays my bills,
my rig needs an upgrade,
and my psr is going up.

Telling my matchmates to play bad is no option, and if they win, my psr goes up, even when i only do 58 damage and some narcing. I find no way to lower psr without violating the rules.

So tell me how i can go down in psr and play again where the fun is and meta is a myth?

Should i say sorry for crashing your dream of being a l33t-badass-gamer?





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