287 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

WoT is older and more established. It's also got more advertising because they've got more money.

In a way, WoT is like WoW and other games are trying to be better but don't quite catch on the same.

[Sjorpha]

Cathy, on 31 May 2016 - 01:02 AM, said:

Because it has convergence.

Convergence is when several weapons adjust to hit the same target at a given distance, in wot you normally shoot only one gun so there is no need for convergence. I really doubt wot has a convergence system, doesn't make much sense when there are so few multi weapon salvos, but maybe it does have it for the odd case.

MWO has convergence, that's why we can put so much focused damage with many weapons. The usual complaint is that convergence is too good and too fast.

[MechWarrior319348]

just wanna say Im putting this stuff in back into the OP, if you really think something should be added then say so.

[xengk]

Mystere, on 30 May 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

Considering that awful movie Pacific Rim reportedly earned over 400 million USD worldwide, I think there is an untapped market for giant robits.

True.
But most movie goer can't tell Pacific Rim, Transformer and Gundam apart.
I have a friend that told me he is going to watch "Transformer vs monsters", which confused me until he shown me a poster for Pacific Rim.

[XtremWarrior]

I think WoT success is also due to the fact that fighting in a tank in Third Person View is more intuitive than the BattleTech rules.
Take the MechLab: creating a good build is a real science and, if you're new and try to learn the game on your own, even the mandatory DHS and Endo taxes are not things you can understand that easily. Then you have to learn to play: hello Heat System (or why-can-i-put-so-many-weapons-on-that-monster-but-still-cannot-fire-them-twice-before-shutting-down)... You get the picture.

BT rules are strange and made from the very start to appeal to a specific niche of players, even among the Robot-fans.

I think a good comparison is the Games Workshop's games: All those made as a direct translation of the tabletop's mechanics are rather niche game, and then you got Dawn of War, with easier mechanics taken from more usual RTS, which was a very huge success in gaming history in general (TotalWar Warhammer will probably be another great game, still due to the fact that it uses the TotalWar usual rules).

Also, the fact that we all know some sort of tanks from our respectives countries, and the history of human wars, create a universal "background" for the game.
MWO by himself conducts no real background for anything, you have to look at the main website to find some - and there's not that much here - or start to search the internet to really know what this whole InnerSphere and the long history behind each faction is all about.

Edited by XtremWarrior, 31 May 2016 - 02:06 AM.

[MechWarrior319348]

XtremWarrior, on 31 May 2016 - 02:03 AM, said:

I think WoT success is also due to the fact that fighting in a tank in Third Person View is more intuitive than the BattleTech rules.
Take the MechLab: creating a good build is a real science and, if you're new and try to learn the game on your own, even the mandatory DHS and Endo taxes are not things you can understand that easily. Then you have to learn to play: hello Heat System (or why-can-i-put-so-many-weapons-on-that-monster-but-still-cannot-fire-them-twice-before-shutting-down)... You get the picture.

BT rules are strange and made from the very start to appeal to a specific niche of players, even among the Robot-fans.

I think a good comparison is the Games Workshop's games: All those made as a direct translation of the tabletop's mechanics are rather niche game, and then you got Dawn of War, with easier mechanics taken from more usual RTS, which was a very huge success in gaming history in general (TotalWar Warhammer will probably be another great game, still due to the fact that it uses the TotalWar usual rules).

Also, the fact that we all know some sort of tanks from our respectives countries, and the history of human wars, create a universal "background" for the game.
MWO by himself conducts no real background for anything, you have to look at the main website to find some - and there's not that much here - or start to search the internet to really know what this whole InnerSphere and the long history behind each faction is all about.

There are multiple companies (and mentalities) that are investing in different parts of the Battle tech franchise. What if they team up?

Also I dont know business management so maybe it isn't that simple?

Edited by Delta 62, 31 May 2016 - 02:08 AM.

[Dogstar]

One reason WoT is more popular is the third person view which makes it much easier to understand where you are and where you can go. It gives you an immediate understanding of your relationship with the environment.

MWO forum warriors fought long and hard to prevent third person view as much as possible, and cripple what view is available, even though it would make everyone's, and particularly new players, experience much easier.

Well done.

Edited by Dogstar, 31 May 2016 - 02:10 AM.

[XtremWarrior]

Delta 62, on 31 May 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

There are multiple companies (and mentalities) that are investing in different parts of the Battle tech franchise. What if they team up?

Also I dont know business management so maybe it isn't that simple?

Same goes for Games-Worshop's licenses: them plus the games developers plus the games publishers etc...

GW declined Blizzard proposition back in the days (because they're not negotiating on anything regarding their universe and want to keep full control on a lot of things) and they missed the incredible Starcraft opportunity (which then came out with a more generic skin).

I think it's always a tough job but if you want to gain the attention of casual gamers, your game has to be built that way from start.
MWO is not (even though this is what makes it unique).

Edited by XtremWarrior, 31 May 2016 - 02:19 AM.

[MechWarrior319348]

Dogstar, on 31 May 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:

One reason WoT is more popular is the third person view which makes it much easier to understand where you are and where you can go. It gives you an immediate understanding of your relationship with the environment.

MWO forum warriors fought long and hard to prevent third person view as much as possible, and cripple what view is available, even though it would make everyone's, and particularly new players, experience much easier.

Well done.

I put it in the thingy

[Johnny Z]

XtremWarrior, on 31 May 2016 - 02:18 AM, said:

Same goes for Games-Worshop's licenses: them plus the games developers plus the games publishers etc...

GW declined Blizzard proposition back in the days (because they're not negotiating on anything regarding their universe and want to keep full control on a lot of things) and they missed the incredible Starcraft opportunity (which then came out with a more generic skin).

I think it's always a tough job but if you want to gain the attention of casual gamers, your game has to be built that way from start.
MWO is not (even though this is what makes it unique).

Gaining attention isn't hard using advertising. Its keeping attention that's the tricky part. With the new player experience hurtin so much in this game still and none of the games setting or theme added yet, its really missing a large part of what makes it great.

There should be pilot character creation from the start where a faction or lack there of is done, then a player is given a faction specific mech with some small tutorial, then on to the longer tutorial, then into tier 5...

The current optional tutorial isn't really polished that well, there is no pilot character creation yet, and absolutely nothing is explained in game about anything yet.

Like someone said the mechbay is a turn off as it is currently because its complicated especially combined with learning the basics of the piloting controls. The mechbay shouldn't even be in a new players face until the tutorials are done and a few matches played, then introduce the mechbay properly.

This is why sim for the win. A player could start in pilots quarters that someone suggested a long time ago and always sounded like a great idea. Then play a few matches, to get into the action a bit, then be introduced to the mechbay.

After all this, this game isn't that hard to grasp for new players compared to many other games. But lack of a player character and atmosphere really hurts.

Edited by Johnny Z, 31 May 2016 - 03:48 AM.

[TheCharlatan]

WW2 vs obscure '80s tabletop game.
'nuff said.

[Johnny Z]

TheArisen, on 31 May 2016 - 01:27 AM, said:

WoT is older and more established. It's also got more advertising because they've got more money.

In a way, WoT is like WoW and other games are trying to be better but don't quite catch on the same.

WOT had a huge media campaign. That's what got it going. Also it has always been free to play when some of the market wasn't there yet.

But your first point is entirely correct. They got backed with a lot of money to start and made tons more. The market is way more saturated now. (Thanks Steam)

By the way I think WOW was the first to offer some kind of free to play out of any of them. Although I don't know the details.

Edited by Johnny Z, 31 May 2016 - 03:58 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Wintersdark, on 30 May 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

No. Because a lot of people are really into tanks, and are uninterested in silly cartoon battlemechs.

World of Tanks appeals to "treadheads" who are a very common military nerd subgroup. Way, way more populous than Mechwarrior/Battletech fans. Even back in the Old Days, before being geeky/nerdy was "normal", being a tank geek was always fine and socially acceptable.

You mean more people understand and know what a tank is over a Battlemech?!

[Khobai]

Quote

WW2 vs obscure '80s tabletop game.

battletech is hardly obscure though. the problem is MWO doesnt feel like battletech or mechwarrior. It feels like call of duty with mechs.

The gamemodes are all just boring variations of skirmish and completely lack immersion. mechs die way too fast in MWO; and critical hits are entirely meaningless because TTK is so low. And information/role warfare are virtually non-existent which completely invalidates entire weight classes of mechs and creates a huge bias towards heavy and assault mechs.

MWO needs more complexity (like world of tanks has with its spotting/radio system) and more sim aspects to it. Should it be a full blown sim game? NO. Absolutely not. The sim crowd can go !@#$ themselves. But MWO should try to aim for a happy medium of say 60% FPS and 40% mech sim.

Right now its like 90% FPS and 10% mech sim. Theres too much emphasis on it being a first person shooter. And not enough immersive elements... the battletech feel just isnt there and the gamemodes just dont make you feel like youre part of the battletech universe.

Battletech is supposed to be way more than just random !@#$ing mechs showing up on planets for no reason other than having a battle royale. Unless its Solaris, then you could sell that as your immersive backdrop... but thats not what PGI did.


So yeah these are the three things PGI needs to work on:

1) MWO needs better objective based gamemodes. And not just lazy fixes like changing conquest so you can still lose even when youve killed the enemy team because the resources keep ticking up for the enemy team even when theyre all dead.

2) MWO needs more intelligent gameplay. This mostly pertains to information and role warfare. These were two of MWO's four pillars. But both those pillars are minimally viable. You can imagine MWO as being a completely lopsided table where two of the legs are regular sized but the other two legs are only a couple inches tall.

3) MWO needs to feel less like an FPS and more like a combination FPS/mechsim. Mechs need to survive longer. And mechs need to get shredded apart more slowly by critical hits instead of just getting instakilled.

Edited by Khobai, 31 May 2016 - 04:29 AM.

[PyckenZot]

When I started WoT, long before MWO was even in remotely in my sights, the game let me play WW2(-ish) tanks in 2 gamemodes, very few maps, a horrendeous MM, a tier system that ****** up history, P2W ammo and a typical F2P tier progressing/farming system.

MWO is a better game than that (and even the current state of WoT for that matter) in every single point listed yet isn't even in the slightest way as popular.

Because MWO does not feed of the passion that tanks and WW2 in general incite in people,...
Everyone wants a try to fight in a Tiger, Sherman, T-34, etc.
Only very few care, or even know, about the Big Stompy Robots we all love.

Edited by PyckenZot, 31 May 2016 - 04:08 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Maybe because the gameplay of WoT is more fun to alot of players. Its an easier game to get a hold of and play. New players can go in and NOT get face rolled cuz they dont have the cash to buy the top meta mech. They can go in and win without fear of making hte mistake of moving just wrong and being nuked in 2 1/2 seconds....I mean they can, just not to the extent of MWO.

I hate WoT and dropped it like it's hot a long time ago, but even then, I dont do a whole lot with this game either. I play in the battlegrounds and mech lab a little, I play in smurfy and hope that PVE happens some day....

Oh, finally, WoT has 2 million players cuz it has Russia as a playerbase.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 31 May 2016 - 04:33 AM.

[KHETTI]

War Gaming's primary customer base is the Casual Gamer, hence the TV and facebook ads, it also explains why their products are poorly balanced and very toxic.
I rather have MWOs low populace than have the populace of any of War Gaming's games over here at MWO, trust me things could be much worse.

Edited by KHETTI, 31 May 2016 - 04:36 AM.

[Jaqir]

One actively advertises its product, the other seems content in thinking that PR will handle itself if left alone even without any real initial momentum. Difference in results is to be expected.

[Khobai]

Quote

it also explains why their products are poorly balanced and very toxic.

And PGIs products arnt?

MWO is horribly balanced and PGI has a terrible track record of being toxic to its customers. Although admittedly they have gotten much better in the last year or so.

[KHETTI]

Balance wise, in comparison to WoWs, MWO is way way better balanced, imagine assaults as they are now, but give them a repair consumable that recovers 20% of their armor when used.
That's the sort of nonsense that is considered balance over at WoWs, and BB captains still complain about cruisers, wanting HE nerfed, which is ridiculous considering cruisers don't have guns with high enough a caliber to penetrate BB armor with AP.
Same thing goes with DDs.