44 replies to this topic

[CK16]

A simple PSA about what single Mech packs actually do....Or should do for MWO and PGI as a whole.

A new mech a month is a very good thing! It keeps the game interesting somewhat and people will stick around to see what is new. One mech does not take up tons of man hours to produce, compared to 4 packs. IT FUNDS FURTHER GAME DEVELOPMENT!

The biggest reason I say this is cause I am tired of people complaining about wanting a certain feature or game mode changed yet thinking PGI magically can fund the man hours to develop such request. Just cause MWO is free to play does not mean it's free to run or make. So unless you are going to tell me you are willing to pay money to fund for a game mode or feature and nothing more please stop complaining about a nice pleasant stream of mechs, cause what else woild you buy to support MWO and PGI. Realize the money is being used to fund the game further and improve and add to the game besides just a new mech.

Sorry for the rant but really people need to realize PGI is a business that produces a good. They need money to be able to start and continue projects. If PGI does good business practice (which I assume they do...) the profits the make allow to invest in themselves and the products they make. Even some for leisure and good public relations events.....

Stop the whole anti new mech movement now.....unless you want this game to end up idle and die, new mechs = healthy revenu = new life = continued game development.

Now it is your choice anyway if you want to keep buying good from PGI it is a free to play game, and yes IT'S not perfect, but its far from the worst. But don't complain about new products if you never intended to buy anything from PGI anyway in the first place. AKA Put up or Shut up, unless you have other ways to successfully fund this game that you would partake in., don't complain about the biggest revenue stream for them and expect better results with smaller income.

Edited by CK16, 31 May 2016 - 11:05 AM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Try telling that to people who have been here two years before you. There wouldn't be an issue if they actually developed the game. New mechs are not meaningful content, they equate to cosmetic items really. Nothing more than vanity items that people who gotta collect the pixels can't refrain from purchasing.

IF buying mechpacks did lead to meaningful content I would still buy them. However, it does not in a timely fashion that is noticeable. You realize the game isn't much different from 4 years ago than it is now right? So tell me how buying mech packs has made any difference? You can't...and won't be able to even in the 2 years you have had this account you opened this thread with.

It is way past time PGI needs to put up or shut up!

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 31 May 2016 - 11:08 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

CK16, on 31 May 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

stuff

Ah but here's the rub my friend:

Most of those whining about Mech Packs, actually DO want PGI to wither and die, under the misguided notion that it's some sort of hot topic IP that'll get picked up right away and "dun rite".

Ignoring the fact that the IP languished in limbo for a solid decade before MWO, and only saw small, niche fan made service paid it.

[Alistair Winter]

Realistically, if you want to be 100% selfish, you should probably admit to yourself that even being a full-blown whale and going all out on every mech pack isn't really making a big difference. The $1000 you may spend over the course of the next few years will not even keep PGI employees working on MWO working for a single day. Probably not even a single hour. So in terms of making a difference, you probably.... aren't.

The question is more about solidarity. Do you feel obliged by categorical imperative or some other logic to do your part, whether or not it makes a real difference?

For me, solidarity is no longer a reason to spend money on this game. I've spent enough. And I'm under no illusion that my contributions actually have any kind of effect on the game's longevity. So the question is simply:

If I spend $15 (or more) on the next mech pack, will it bring me enough enjoyment to make the purchase worthwhile?

That's all it is.

[Juodas Varnas]

TLDR;
I want a Scorpion.

[Chimera_]

Alistair Winter, on 31 May 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

Realistically, if you want to be 100% selfish, you should probably admit to yourself that even being a full-blown whale and going all out on every mech pack isn't really making a big difference. The $1000 you may spend over the course of the next few years will not even keep PGI employees working on MWO working for a single day. Probably not even a single hour. So in terms of making a difference, you probably.... aren't.

*snip*

Yeah but at the same time it's the combined funding of every mech pack purchaser that keeps the game alive. A single person isn't keeping the game afloat, but thousands of people buying the mechs are. If everyone decided their buying mech packs wasn't helping the game out and stopped, the game would cease to exist.

Bishop Steiner, on 31 May 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

Ah but here's the rub my friend:

Most of those whining about Mech Packs, actually DO want PGI to wither and die, under the misguided notion that it's some sort of hot topic IP that'll get picked up right away and "dun rite".

Ignoring the fact that the IP languished in limbo for a solid decade before MWO, and only saw small, niche fan made service paid it.

I've been very surprised lately at all the people trying to compare the Battletech license to much more mainstream interests like tanks and large sci-fi franchises. BT (By extension Mechwarrior) is not -and never will be- a popular IP akin to the likes of many other game series. I don't think PGI has done an excellent job on this game (I do think it's good, just has many issues) but without MWO there would likely be no new official Mechwarrior game. I take what I can, and find plenty of enjoyment in this game.

[Bud Crue]

There is a lot I desire from this game. Trying to kill the game by starving it of funds (whether by my own actions or by that of the collective) is not going to make any of those desires a reality. It'll just kill the game. Whereas funding the game for my own enjoyment (as long as it is enjoyable) just might make some of those desires a reality. Even if it doesn't however, as long as I enjoy some aspects of the game I will fund it...lack of improvements and all.

So by all means be critical, vent, tweet Russ with your desires, complaints, wants and needs for this game. But trying to kill the game is not going to make the game better. It boggles me that this needs explanation. Whatever. To each his or her own.

[Lorian Sunrider]

For me its a simple time versus reward.

For simplicity sake, say I earn $15 an hour. A Night Gyr basic pack costs $20. Am I going to get more than an hours entertainment out of playing and leveling my Night Gyr basic pack? I certainly believe so. In fact I'm more likely to get at least 4-10 hours out of them depending on how much I like them or if I just shelve them after eliting.

I'm at the point in my life where my time is nearly as valuable as my money, so I really don't mind putting in $20 a month if I play 10-20 hours a month.

[Ultimax]

As I told you in the other thread, as apparently once was insufficient, the money you spend goes to the mech pack that you are purchasing - that is the content.

This isn't a dig at PGI, this is a dig at players who misunderstand what is being sold to them.


It's pretty straightforward, they develop a mech (art, model, camo, quirks, etc.) and put it into the game and that's what you are purchasing.


Any hope that "extra funds" go towards other bits of development are exactly that, hope.


PGI reserves the right to utilize (or not utilize) some portion of revenue to invest back into the existing game (improve servers, hire more staff, make new maps, etc) - and will likely do so, one small priority at a time - but there is no guarantee of this - they will do this when they think it benefits their business plan of selling mechs.


So you can feel free to believe whatever you want, this is the reality of MWO and other F2P games. You are getting what you pay for, and what you pay for is what they are offering you in the store.

Edited by Ultimax, 31 May 2016 - 11:43 AM.

[TKSax]

I always vote with my Wallet, that is the only vote I have, I did not buy anything between the Phoenix Pack and Clan Wave II because PGI was in the dark days. I have not bought any of the recent packs because I have so many mechs and so much premium time there and so much in game cbills besides the exclusivity, there is no reason for me to buy the packs. Just because someone chooses to not buy mechs backs does not excluded them from criticizing things about the game. The game will eventually die, and it will die because people will lose interest, that is not those people for not buying Mech Packs that is on PGI for not figuring out how to keep their interest.

[Chimera_]

Ultimax, on 31 May 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

*snip*
It's pretty straightforward, they develop a mech (art, model, camo, quirks, etc.) and put it into the game and that's what you are purchasing.

Any hope that "extra funds" go towards other bits of development are exactly that, hope.

PGI reserves the right to utilize some portion of revenue to invest back into the existing game - and will likely do so, one small priority at a time - but there is no guarantee of this.

So you can feel free to believe whatever you want, this is the reality of MWO and other F2P games. You are getting what you pay for, and what you pay for is what they are offering you in the store.

You're ignoring the fact that Russ has stated many times mech packs are a primary source of income for the game. Am I expected to believe that such a large portion of their income only pays for minority percentage of their employees? If so, where do they get the money to pay everyone who isn't working on mechs? I guess that's from the map packs they sell, or the CW phase 3 upgrade cost. Oh wait.

It's silly to say the packs might not fund anything but themselves when we've been told by the company president that it's quite the opposite. There's not much to buy in this game other than mechs, I'd be very surprised if any less than 70-80% of their income isn't from mechs.

Edited by Chimera11, 31 May 2016 - 11:47 AM.

[DAYLEET]

Alistair Winter, on 31 May 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

even being a full-blown whale and going all out on every mech pack isn't really making a big difference. The $1000 you may spend over the course of the next few years will not even keep PGI employees working on MWO working for a single day.

I think you are, 100%, flat wrong, seeing how half the player base always have the new mech and hero with it and lately id say 75% have bought the kidiak hero pack. We know that the player base is around 120k but Lets say only 30k people spend 500 a year thats 1.5million USD a year and for a team their size is not chump change. Over the years nothing showed me they were hurting for money, new servers, new employees, tournament with prize and transport paid for etc etc. The players arent tipping them, they are funding them.

Edited by DAYLEET, 31 May 2016 - 12:12 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Chimera11, on 31 May 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

Yeah but at the same time it's the combined funding of every mech pack purchaser that keeps the game alive. A single person isn't keeping the game afloat, but thousands of people buying the mechs are. If everyone decided their buying mech packs wasn't helping the game out and stopped, the game would cease to exist.

I think you're mixing "What if everyone did what I do" with "What are the actual consequences of my personal choice". Those are two different things.

DAYLEET, on 31 May 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

I think you are, 100%, flat wrong, seeing how half the player base always have the new mech and hero with it and lately id say 75% have bought the kidiak hero pack. We know that the player base is around 120k but Lets say only 30k people spend 500 a year thats 1.5million USD a year and for a team their size is not chump change. Over the years nothing showed me they were hurting for money, new servers, new employees, tournament with prize and transport paid for etc etc. The players arent tipping them, they are funding them.

You say I'm wrong but you never really contradicted anything I said or explained what was wrong.

[LordNothing]

you know when i ask for new weapons i always include the caveat that they should be monetized. people hate this of course. even if its one of those pay or grind / pay or wait sort of things. "zomg pay2win!" every damn time. i totally expect to have to pay to be the first to get new toys.

my complaint with the mech packs its only mech packs. if you are close to catching them all then you have tried every possible build and every possible hardpoint config already. you own at least one of every engine and at least 20 of every weapon, and your module collection is too big to manage. then new mechs really dont bring anything new to the game, other than a shiny new model. certainly not interesting enough where id rather shell out than wait a few months. they would need to bring out stupid levels of hardpoint inflation, and there are limits to how far you can push that before it starts breaking the game. or something like is omnis to move forward on the mech front. but if you are going to advance the timeline enough to make that possible then new tech would also need to come with it.

i think they should bring in new non-mech content, its another source of income, and it will spice up this stagnant game.

Edited by LordNothing, 31 May 2016 - 12:06 PM.

[DAYLEET]

Alistair Winter, on 31 May 2016 - 11:57 AM, said:

I think you're mixing "What if everyone did what I do" with "What are the actual consequences of my personal choice". Those are two different things.


You say I'm wrong but you never really contradicted anything I said or explained what was wrong.

There, i edited my post, now it should be more clear.

[CK16]

Did I say anywhere that if you don't pay you don't get a voice? Maybe read what I said wrong or I worded it pourly. For those saying "Stop making new mechsand do X." Need to realize what pays for X! So unless people wanted to pay for just a new game mode (thay won't likely sell well) that is the issue. Mechs are the biggest seller and I can't think of anything that would bring in the money to add new stuff besides mechs. We have tons if cockpit items, paints and patterns, MC packs (that buy all of the above usually), Yet Mechs still out sell those, supposedly by a large margin to.boot. So what you offer that would sell more then mechs? The answer nothing, so those say new mechs are not helping then throw them something worth the same value, that would sell just as much and often.

Edited by CK16, 31 May 2016 - 12:15 PM.

[Chimera_]

Alistair Winter, on 31 May 2016 - 11:57 AM, said:

I think you're mixing "What if everyone did what I do" with "What are the actual consequences of my personal choice". Those are two different things.

Point being, if everyone thinks their contributions (to anything) don't matter then nothing can be accomplished. I'm not saying you're wrong that a single person choosing not to purchase the latest mech pack won't have much of an effect, but rather that the mindset of an individuals' impact on the world being insignificant is flawed when adopted on a large scale. I guess my point doesn't apply quite as well to this game specifically, but...meh

[Ultimax]

Chimera11, on 31 May 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

You're ignoring the fact that Russ has stated many times mech packs are a primary source of income for the game. Am I expected to believe that such a large portion of their income only pays for minority percentage of their employees? If so, where do they get the money to pay everyone who isn't working on mechs? I guess that's from the map packs they sell, or the CW phase 3 upgrade cost. Oh wait.

OK, so you seem to be misunderstanding.

1) Of course its their primary source of income.
2) Income/profits generated go to pay for everything, from keeping the lights on, to needed equipment, paying salaries, etc.
3) Companies do not take all income (profit) and instantly re-invest it all into future products or more importantly infrastructure to indirectly improve existing product. (though it frequently makes sense to from a competitiveness standpoint)

Chimera11, on 31 May 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

It's silly to say the packs might not fund anything but themselves when we've been told by the company president that it's quite the opposite.

The silly part is believing that the mech packs are going to directly fund NEW FEATURES to the game on any kind of a regular basis - that is solely at the discretion of PGI.

They fund the continued functionality of the studio, and what the studio primarily sells as content is new mechs.


Will they use profit to re-invest into the base game and overall infrastructure? Probably.

Are they under any obligation to do so? No.

They will do so if it makes sense for their continued business model.

Edited by Ultimax, 31 May 2016 - 12:26 PM.

[RussianWolf]

I stopped buying after Clan Wave 3.... I have 273 bays completely filled, 268 variants mastered (I think I have 6 duplicate mechs from the loyalty mechs and Sarah's Jenner).

Mechs are their income true. But what I'm buying is development. If they can't release new maps and modes, then all the mechs in the game are pointless. If they aren't developing the game, then why should I buy mechs to support them?

By the way, 1.5million divided by 20 staff is an average of $75k per year. And that doesn't include corporate taxes, payroll taxes (we are talking Canada here) or any overhead (leases, depreciation on computers, etc.). They better be bringing in a heck of a lot more than $1.5mill per year or they are in fact paying their staff chump change.

[CygnusX7]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 May 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

Ah but here's the rub my friend:

Most of those whining about Mech Packs, actually DO want PGI to wither and die, under the misguided notion that it's some sort of hot topic IP that'll get picked up right away and "dun rite".

Ignoring the fact that the IP languished in limbo for a solid decade before MWO, and only saw small, niche fan made service paid it.

+ eleventy!!11!1!!1
We are extremely lucky to be playing this game at all.