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Clan Mechs Are A Joke


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#1 ChaoticUrlond

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 09:20 AM

Lets give good reasons why Clan Mechs are a joke and most Clan Factions are a Joke as well!

I'll start Clan Mechs are a joke cause we dont have the agility to counter the IS Mechs. An IS Mech can easily be forgiven for going to the wrong place or firing to early due to their quirks. Clans not so much so if we screw up we're dead.

Clan Factions are also a joke cause "Teamwork is non existent."
"

#2 Appogee

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 09:25 AM

Posted Image


According to my stats, collected over the course of more than 7000 matches, all of my top 5 performing Mechs are Clan Mechs.

Edited by Appogee, 02 June 2016 - 09:33 AM.


#3 ChaoticUrlond

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 09:31 AM

View PostAppogee, on 02 June 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

Posted Image


According to my stats, collected over the course of more than 7000 matches, all of my top 5 performing Mechs are Clan Mechs.

Woe is me.


Quick Play or Faction Play?

#4 Appogee

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 09:34 AM

View PostChaoticUrlond, on 02 June 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

Quick Play or Faction Play?

Stats are only collected for Quick Play.

Maybe Clan Mechs are only a "joke" in Faction Play...?

Posted Image

Uh oh, 5 of the top 10 Merc pilots on the Faction Play leaderboard happen to mostly pilot Clan Mechs, too.

Edited by Appogee, 02 June 2016 - 09:51 AM.


#5 ChaoticUrlond

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 09:51 AM

Yeah that unit is nice

#6 Herkras

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 09:59 AM

Can you taste the salt?

#7 AncillaLupus

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 10:00 AM

Clan Mechs have been clan mechs on release.
PGI "patched" (aka nerfed) them for "balance reasons" to near unuasability. Jokes like 2 sec ER LL burn duration and stuff.
After that ppl (for good reasons) started complaining. PGI patched clan mechs again, but gave IS mechs a ton of quirks.

Long story short: Thats todays situation.
Fact is, regardless of stat blabla that clan mechs are (if ever) only slightly better than is mechs due to their lower weight on weaponary.

They are only slightly more agile.
Only slightly faster BUT due to omni pod design (expect Kodiak) fixed on their engine, therefor topspeed and agility.

As said ... that was called "balancing" instead of matching 8 clans vs 12 is which had ben WAYS more usefull.

my 2 cents

#8 T I N M A N

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 10:48 AM

Clan mechs hold many advantages over the IS
Longer laser/ballistic/streak range
-Longer range allows clan mechs to be abusive and destructive at long range, targeting computers just adding to that

The ability to mount more firepower
-Weapons are also stronger and lighter, allowing for more damage and more heatsinks, respectively.
the ability to sustain in fights better

Heatsinks
-Clan mechs cool down faster, allowing more fire over a long time, as opposed to a IS mech which eventually has to get to a point where the pilot either has to cool down for a long time or try to fire fewer weapons to avoid over heat
-This cool down comes at the expense of the ability to have a larger alpha, but again, if a clan mech draws out a long engagement they will win.
-More heatsinks without the cost of 3 slots per allows more to be brought

Ferro/Endo take up less Slots
-For those Omni's which it comes on (like the Timber) and the Clan mechs that can adjust it (Like the Kodiak, IIC's)
-Means more tonnage can be saved for the cost of less slots. For example the Atlas can only do one or the other, while the Kodiak can do both and have enough slots to fill tonnage.

In regards to agility
-Clan mechs run fast enough on their own. Every heavy except for the Night Gyr and Orion IIC is faster than every black knight variant except the 7-L. Faster than all the orions, Catapults (not jester), Warhammers, Cataphracts, Archers, Marauders, Thunderbolts, Jagers, etc.
-Clan mechs, even though you can't change their engines, already run faster than IS mechs of the same size (In every class except most lights) and have more weapon space on top of that.

Bottom line, Clan mechs outclass the Inner Sphere mechs at near everything except laser duration and laser heat, (and the reason for those is to avoid the constant 1200+ damage matches people would get in their 2LPL, 3/4ML Timby's). And even then they have mechs that can completely avoid laser heat and do massive damage (Kodiak 3, Spirit Bear, Jenner IIC's, Ebon Jag, etc)
I'm not saying I agree with a 2sec Duration on C-ERLL, but it can damage well out of range of anything except possibly an AC2 with range quirks.

I would have loved for them to put 2 Stars against 3 Lances (10v12), I was there during the test and before, but they decided not to implement it. So whatever.
The mechs are fairly balanced though and I still think clans hold the advantage as long as they can run a match at their pace. IS thrives up close in quick engagements. Clans at long range/drawn out, for the most part.
A clanner will win every match if they can keep the enemy at distance.
That gives clans the advantage in most quick play matches and in faction play you just need the right builds for the engagement you want, because in faction play you can't always keep the enemy at distance.

Edited by NightStalker97, 02 June 2016 - 10:51 AM.


#9 ChaoticUrlond

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 10:50 AM

Clan Mechs do not cool down faster than IS mechs, look at the difference between Heat sinks for Clans and IS.

#10 SmokeGuar

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 11:00 AM

Have to say, these IS n00bs are well brainwashed,... oh wait, you are T1. nvm.

#11 Bagor Aga

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 11:29 AM

View PostNightStalker97, on 02 June 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

Clan mechs hold many advantages over the IS
Longer laser/ballistic/streak range
-Longer range allows clan mechs to be abusive and destructive at long range, targeting computers just adding to that

just compare real meta IS vs CL. Take Black Knight and Timber on middle range. Launch lobby and let you fire by cooldown to CT. Guess who makes more alphas and wins?

View PostNightStalker97, on 02 June 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

The ability to mount more firepower
-Weapons are also stronger and lighter, allowing for more damage and more heatsinks, respectively.
the ability to sustain in fights better

just compare real meta IS vs CL. Please find me a heavy with 3LPL+4ML to mach Marauder.

View PostNightStalker97, on 02 June 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

Heatsinks
-Clan mechs cool down faster, allowing more fire over a long time, as opposed to a IS mech which eventually has to get to a point where the pilot either has to cool down for a long time or try to fire fewer weapons to avoid over heat
-This cool down comes at the expense of the ability to have a larger alpha, but again, if a clan mech draws out a long engagement they will win.
-More heatsinks without the cost of 3 slots per allows more to be brought

you lost in past. Nowadays there is no clanners on long because IS is effective on midrange and always use assaults vs heavies on long. It was painful in time of 6L stalkers but now we see BM and Maulers as well. 800m front vs front is gone.

View PostNightStalker97, on 02 June 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

Ferro/Endo take up less Slots
-For those Omni's which it comes on (like the Timber) and the Clan mechs that can adjust it (Like the Kodiak, IIC's)
-Means more tonnage can be saved for the cost of less slots. For example the Atlas can only do one or the other, while the Kodiak can do both and have enough slots to fill tonnage.

same as above - your'e talking about theory of armchair crafting. Look to battlefield, do you see alpha-builds and dps-oriented as I do? What class of mechs come over in weapons number or range\dps flexability? It's difficult to realize but clantech has very limited number of platforms to build 4 deck and IS is more flex to counter in builds >> tactics.

Quote

In regards to agility
...


the real is in fact : clantech isnt OP vs IS at all, in skilled dozen there is more ease to counter ct and thus more fun to play. There is difference between ppl who stay clanners and who change mind to catch the wind. This was the reason why we got over T1 and T2, not clantech power.

#12 Revis Volek

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 11:57 AM

View PostChaoticUrlond, on 02 June 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

Clan Mechs do not cool down faster than IS mechs, look at the difference between Heat sinks for Clans and IS.



Clan heatsinks cool better then IS heatsinks but IS heatsinks i think have more Capacity/Higher Threshold. Not to mention Clan DHS take one less crit slot so where a IS mechs puts two DHS a Clan mech can put 3.

I think YOU need to look at them a little closer....


Clans have very strong mechs, KDK, TBR, HBR, EBJ, SCR and ACH all come to mind as top of their class or very close to it. Thats 1 at least for every single weight class. Heavies they have 3....

So whats the issue? Surely not the mechs, and FP is a crap chute most the time unless you have a unit.

Edited by Revis Volek, 02 June 2016 - 12:04 PM.


#13 ChaoticUrlond

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 12:11 PM

Clan Double Heatsink 1.1 Heat Capacity .15 in Heat Dissipation
Double Heatsink 1.5 Heat Capacity .14 in Heat Dissipation
Clan Heatsink and Is Heatsink is 1.2 with .12 in Heat Dissipation

Not much of a major difference, but since Normal Double Heatsinks have .4 more than Clan Double Heatsink

#14 T I N M A N

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 12:11 PM

It's like you think I haven't played this game. Over 600 hours, at least. Steam only has been up for so long, so I wish I could give you a more precise number of hours.

View PostBagor Aga, on 02 June 2016 - 11:29 AM, said:

just compare real meta IS vs CL. Take Black Knight and Timber on middle range. Launch lobby and let you fire by cooldown to CT. Guess who makes more alphas and wins?


You forget that Clan LPL range is 600 while IS is 365, with IS quirks getting it up to like a 456 Max on Stalker 5S (5% LPL Range, 10% Energy Range, 10% Range mod). You don't need to engage at medium range. Engage at long. Even if you can't hold an engagement at long you can fire while closing distance for more significant poke. And sure clans have a longer fire rate, but that range and more damage is strong.

View PostBagor Aga, on 02 June 2016 - 11:29 AM, said:

just compare real meta IS vs CL. Please find me a heavy with 3LPL+4ML to mach Marauder.


Are you asking me to find a clan heavy with the same build? If so, that's ignoring the differences between clan and IS and that they need to be built differently. (Marauder IMO is broken overall because of its minuscule hit boxes (except from above).) But if you want to take one down as a clanner just bring and energy timby to out range it. It works for me just fine.

View PostBagor Aga, on 02 June 2016 - 11:29 AM, said:

you lost in past. Nowadays there is no clanners on long because IS is effective on midrange and always use assaults vs heavies on long. It was painful in time of 6L stalkers but now we see BM and Maulers as well. 800m front vs front is gone.


How many people bring maulers in a given match? Like 2 at most per wave in FW? I've played hundreds of CW matches and in recent ones the most I saw were 3 Maulers in one match on wave one, then only about 3 for the rest of the game. Call out that target and focus it down. Neither mech, Mauler or Battlemaster, can shoot as far as a clanner, and are very weak up close. The Ac5 mauler has a miniscule engine and is slow at twisting, and the ERLL BM has a low damage, high-heat alpha.

View PostBagor Aga, on 02 June 2016 - 11:29 AM, said:

same as above - your'e talking about theory of armchair crafting. Look to battlefield, do you see alpha-builds and dps-oriented as I do? What class of mechs come over in weapons number or range\dps flexability? It's difficult to realize but clantech has very limited number of platforms to build 4 deck and IS is more flex to counter in builds >> tactics.


I agree, IS is better at being able to have flexible builds, but that's mostly due, IMO, to their lower energy heat, allowing them to get away with more extreme energy builds. Also, clanners just have less mechs in general to use, making it harder to have a good flex deck. But then again you should plan for what you want to do, build that deck, and be part of a unit to coordinate a strategy. FW is just a flop without coordinated unit play.

View PostBagor Aga, on 02 June 2016 - 11:29 AM, said:

the real is in fact : clantech isnt OP vs IS at all, in skilled dozen there is more ease to counter ct and thus more fun to play. There is difference between ppl who stay clanners and who change mind to catch the wind. This was the reason why we got over T1 and T2, not clantech power.


I didn't say clantech was OP, I said it can be better if used properly. But I like that you assume I'm attacking clanners. Just because my tag is Liao doesn't make me an IS only, I play all the mechs.
Don't try to walk up close to IS or Clan will get wrecked. But IS has a terrible time trying to close ground with Clan, and even if they do they generally have to go into cover and cover leads to choke points often enough. A coordinated firing line from anyone, no matter the mech, beats anything.

I would like to say I could talk just as long about strengths of the IS. This thread was about clans though so I'm keeping it to that.

I never changed from Clan to IS or IS to Clan. I play what I like. Currently the Zeus and the Highlander IIC's are what I am working on. Definitely not Tier 1 mechs, and the builds I run are not the best (because meta is easy/boring), yet I still do consistent 700-900 damage per quick play match, solo or group. It's all about knowing how to play the mech, taking a build for the situation you want to create, and coordinating with other pilots.

Edited by NightStalker97, 02 June 2016 - 12:38 PM.


#15 T I N M A N

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 12:24 PM

View PostChaoticUrlond, on 02 June 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

Clan Double Heatsink 1.1 Heat Capacity .15 in Heat Dissipation
Double Heatsink 1.5 Heat Capacity .14 in Heat Dissipation
Clan Heatsink and Is Heatsink is 1.2 with .12 in Heat Dissipation

Not much of a major difference, but since Normal Double Heatsinks have .4 more than Clan Double Heatsink


Thanks for grabbing this info.

It's true that IS doubles are better, but when you consider you get 5-10 more heatsinks on a clan energy boat than an IS one, the advantage in dissipation really comes out.
It's hard to get the IS to reach high heat with a long range engagement, but once IS does, it takes much longer to cooldown, or they have to sacrifice DPS to not overheat. I know this well, having an average of 300,000 extra mech xp sitting on each of my blackknights, just to name one chassis.

It's a nice balancing mechanic, IMO. Makes one have to choose their engagements.

Edited by NightStalker97, 02 June 2016 - 12:48 PM.


#16 Jman5

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 01:03 PM

View PostChaoticUrlond, on 02 June 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

Lets give good reasons why most Clan Factions are a Joke as well!


Posted Image

#17 Kael Posavatz

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 01:17 PM

Since most engagements in FW happen at a range of less than 400m--often a lot less--the Clan range advantage is something of a joke, especially with the much higher heat burden.

The Quick Play maps are, if not more open, then at least more supportive of a variety of engagement profiles. As such, the Clan range advantage is actually useful.

#18 MovinTarget

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 01:59 PM

While IS mechs are more durable, I think coordinated teams can take advantage of Clan strengths like better range and team movement. Sadly, games often boil down to pugs v pugs and that advantage gets lost in the chaos.

Still, had a game yesterday on Taiga where the enemy had 4-5 KDK-3s on the hill between the gates, with excellent focus fire they mowed us down.

#19 AncillaLupus

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 02:17 PM

View PostSmokeGuar, on 02 June 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

Have to say, these IS n00bs are well brainwashed,... oh wait, you are T1. nvm.

Doesn´t help cause his statements are ways beyond reality...

Just read Bagor Aga´s post.
Nuff said.

No map is really useable to make clan advantages (minimal more range, minimal more speed) count.
Current top clan units 99.9% do use brawler builds.


#20 Kotev

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 02:30 PM

I agree and feel with the Op. Agree that clan mechs are weaker in any regard and feel because is really frustrating to go 1v1 with your Timby against any medium/heavy/assult is mech and got melted away with 2 alphas when you didnt finnished your first one. These are the reason most of the skiled players went is long time ago.

I agree and feel with the Op. Agree that clan mechs are weaker in any regard and feel because is really frustrating to go 1v1 with your Timby against any medium/heavy/assult is mech and got melted away with 2 alphas when you didnt finnished your first one. These are the reason most of the skiled players went is long time ago.





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