19 replies to this topic

[Mad Dog Morgan]

With the unveiling of the Huntsman, we now have another 50-ton omnimech coming to the battlefield.

What does it offer, though, over its counterparts?

A whopping 24 tons of pod space with near-max armor. While the HBK-IIC can field variable amounts of tonnage available for weaponry, it cannot carry the same number or mixture of hardpoints, but the HBK-IIC still boasts really high mounts for weaponry, thereby retaining its place.

It also offers more well-rounded loadouts and more available tonnage than the other 50-ton Omni, the Nova.

- Assuming mixed hardpoints, a maximum of 9 laser hardpoints.

- A maximum of 8 missile hardpoints.

- And, a maximum of 5 ballistic hardpoints (ballistics obviously won't be as beneficial as the other configurations en masse).

Decent amount of space for your run-of-the-mill Laser Vomit config.

Decent amount of space for your SRM belching.

Enough tonnage to operate a single heavy ballistic with backup weapons or multiple medium ballistics (e.g. 2x UAC5's) with a sufficient amount of ammunition.

This is, of course, assuming you have all of the variants.

Out of the box, for the most basic package, you can operate with 7 laser hardpoints.

The only thing that will hold this thing back is its low top speed and possible squishiness thanks to a possible lack of quirks. Its design will allow it to shield reasonably and spread damage, most likely, but this is also highly dependent on the hitboxes.

Edited by Vaskadar, 13 June 2016 - 08:15 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

If it's less squishy than the HBK-IIC, then it'll be good. Now, saying that the HBK-IIC has fewer hard points is valid. But it doesn't tell the whole story. For that to mean anything, you've got to have a loadout in mind that needs more hard points than the HBK-IIC has for a given type of weapon.

For instance, ballistics. HBK-IIC(O) has 4 hard points, with two Es for backup. Low engine size, no JJs, arms stripped, you CAN dual-Gauss it. Wouldn't recommend it, but you can. It's pretty easy to do dual-UAC/10 dual-ERML with a JJ and an XL 245, and sufficient ammo that even my can't-aim self can throw down 600+ damage games. And without the locked equipment, you can load those up asymmetric too. Huntsman is going to have to contend with locked equip in the side torsos (5 slots, IIRC, per side), limiting that possibility.

Missiles? Now there, I might have to give the edge to Huntsman. HBK-IIC-B can do 4 missile launchers, but the hunches are enormous "SHOOT HERE" signs, and without any quirks to speak of, it's the squishiest of them all. Huntsman is going to have big shoulders, but they're also narrower. And it can spread the missiles out better among various hard points. It's the mini ARC-5W, only better because CLAM.

HBK-IIC-A? Man, those high shoulder mounts are HIGH A. F. At least four (4) of them are. And that's what really matters, I suppose. Hunny is gonna have a hard time keeping up with that.

In order for the huntsman to take over as the #1 Clan 50-tonner, it's gonna have to have GREAT hit boxes. And any B or E mounts that fall on those huge side torsos? Gonna have to be REALLY high. Otherwise, it'll be a tie at best. HBK-IIC can go faster, can free up more weight for dynamic allocation and removable JJs, and can carry ENOUGH weapons of any type.

Nonetheless, I'm gonna buy the HMN because it looks FANTASTIC, and it'll be above-average at worst.

[ImperialKnight]

you get about 23 tons of pod space. there's 5 fixed JJs.

looking at the design, you WILL have high mounts on the shoulders for M and E hardpoints

It does get one high Ballistic mount on the B-variant but the biggest weapon you can put there is only a UAC10 due to the fixed slots

[Mad Dog Morgan]

knightsljx, on 13 June 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

you get about 23 tons of pod space. there's 5 fixed JJs.

looking at the design, you WILL have high mounts on the shoulders for M and E hardpoints

It does get one high Ballistic mount on the B-variant but the biggest weapon you can put there is only a UAC10 due to the fixed slots

I calculated it using Smurfy's and a Hunchback IIC, accounting for the 5th jump jet. You can get 24 tons if you shed a little bit of leg armor.

Edited by Vaskadar, 13 June 2016 - 07:24 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

knightsljx, on 13 June 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

looking at the design, you WILL have high mounts on the shoulders for M and E hardpoints

M yes. Look at the concept art, though, and see where the TAG and Flamer on the LT are, in relation to the highest points on the mech. Yeah, they ARE cockpit height (sweet), but there's a LOT of mech ABOVE them from there. All of that will have to be exposed to clear cover, and it's gonna be similar to the RFL's problem of telegraphing its hill humps--the incoming fire will be waiting for it when it clears the cover.

The missile point in the artwork looks nice and high. Not as important, sadly. I'd rather have a low missile point and a high energy one, but that's just gonna have to do. You'll apparently be able to poptart SRMs, for what that's worth. Some folks can manage that well, and they're gonna love this thing.

No torso ballistics shown yet in the concept art, so we'll see if those end up being up high or just (lol "ONLY") cockpit level.

No doubt, this thing will AT WORST be above-average, and it's getting my money. Just not ready to call it superior to HBK-IIC on all counts based on what we have here. Not yet.

[Void Angel]

It's the jump capacity given its similarity to my Stormcrows (nearly the same pod space) that attracts me to it - the hitboxes make me a bit leery, though. Not that we know exactly what they are, but we can make a pretty good guess based on where weapons are sticking out; if the parts of the 'mech over the shoulder joints are side torsos (which they likely are,) then you'll be able to shoot them out like catapult ears. Of course, that also depends on the overall size of the 'mech. We shall see. Got till two thirds of the way through July to decide - so I'll probably factor in the rescaled 'mech sizes to figure out if I for-sure want to buy one.

[Aethermech]

I for one as a mostly IS player am actually looking forward to buying this mech to tinker with. i was thinking about a stormcrow, but those are over done. I'd rather break my teeth on the Huntsman as my first omni-medium. Plus I think that almost anything the Crow can do the Huntsman can do just as well, just a bit slower if i remeber the speeds right.


P.S. Right side left side punching 8 srm4's seems kinda gross and funny at the same time

Edited by Aethermech, 14 June 2016 - 06:07 AM.

[Steinkrieg]

Most likely going to want to run the following -

Prime left arm omnipod = 2E 1M
PA left torso omnipod = 2M
PA right torso omnipod = 2M
B right arm omnipod = 3E
to run something along the lines of 4 cSRM6, 3 cERSLAS, 2 cERMLAS = 48 + 15 + 14 dmg = 77 dmg alpha with good heat management potential given the separate weapon grouping and such.

With the jump jets, it's going to be maneuverable enough to perform rear drop down ambushes or be part of a hunter-killer lance or get behind heavies and assaults in a brawl. Lights are not going to want to come near it. Other mediums are going to be extremely cautious to engage it. Heavies and assaults will not want to see it as a damage assister and focus firer in a brawl. This thing is going to be a beast.
This thing is going to be a beast.

[Bluttrunken]

Sorry. Your analysis has nothing to do with science. I think you need to look up how to conduct scientific research/how to proof theories.

[Mad Dog Morgan]

I have an observation and a hypothesis, but the means to experiment has yet to be made available so as to obtain real results.

Observation: 50 ton mech, has 24 tons pod space and 5 JJ's

Hypothesis: Will likely be a solid mech that outmodes several others in its weight class.

[Lily from animove]

solid jumpsniper with 2 peps, due to the high ahrdpoints and JJ's

however for some high position battles as mining offers there may eb too many hardpoitns in the torsi, which then cannot turn dowanards enough but battlebrawling and suprsisedrops in the backs of opponents form higher positions will mostlikely be good tactics. when PGI makes some weird energy system you can make it fire 3 volleys of srm 4+6 together.

[DovisKhan]

8 SRM6 that's what it can offer, with Artemis no less


Basically it's the burstiest mech in game, will absolutely dominate Scouting and will kill heavies in one volley if you catch them facing away from you


Or the BEST LRM boat in game


Or do what the 70 IS Archer can't - field both LRMs and SRMs at meaningful quantities while having CLan XL


Or Have any loadout that MAD DOG can have, but at 10 tons less cost in your dropdeck



This is easily the best per tonnage mech and the best buy besides KDK this year



Also - it's a bit pay2win, yes this mech is the only one so far where you NEED renforcements/hero for the omnipods to make the best of it



When this mech hits the battlefield, every other mech in 40-60 range becomes obsolete except for Nova which will have a small niche, but basically this is a 50 ton MAD DOG

Edited by DovisKhan, 16 September 2016 - 03:38 AM.

[maimaimi]

i fear its ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE cockpit will be its downfall. I imagine I could reliably hit that thing in the face even at a couple hundred meters with ADV zoom. Close range would be suicidal...

looks a lot like its gonna be a good LRM5 boat but i wouldn't be that confident at close range because of that obvious bulseye on the cockpit glass

Edited by maimaimi, 16 September 2016 - 04:34 AM.

[Gladius Vittoris]

maimaimi, on 16 September 2016 - 04:31 AM, said:

i fear its ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE cockpit will be its downfall.

Cockpit glass and cockpit hitbox aren0t the same thing.
But I agree that pgi could screw it up

Edited by Gladius Vittoris, 27 September 2016 - 04:07 AM.

[FrozenAnt]

I hope they don't fudge it up. I love mediums. I have played the hell out of Cents, enforcers, Phoenix hawks, Shadow hawks, wolverines, hunchbacks, even black jacks to an extent. Basically I have grown bored with IS mediums and want to venture into clan mediums.

I find it really difficult though as the skillcrow and co are just ugly as hell. I tried the viper thing but didn't like the lack of tonnage with no ECM. I forced myself to get into Nova's which I find okish, but you can't use missiles. I found some solace in one of them with an CUAC-10 2cmlas and 4csmlas.

I was gonna just drop the $70 for the pack because I am super excited about a hard hitting clan med with JJ's but then I remembered it's pgi... I'm trying to "speak with my wallet." If they fudge it's hit boxes or quirks I'll have to sadly say no

But... Maybe... If they don't screw up, this thing will dominate, at least for me.

[Pariah Devalis]

As someone who has been lobbying for this particular mech for two years, now, I don't think I ever thought it would be the best medium mech we have. However, what I believed, and what I still believe at this point, is that it will offer a fantastic sidegrade mech. Something effectively equal to other options.

For example, we see a lot of Hunchback IIC with 2x UAC10 and 2x ERMLas. What if I told you that you could fit a Huntsman with 2x UAC10 and 2x ERSLas, plenty of ammunition, and an extra jump jet, at the expense of most of the arm armor? It would be ever so slightly slower (what, 3 kph?) and lack the range of the ERMLas that the HBK has, but the ERMLas builds up excessive heat on that build, anyways, and the extra Jump Jet will help it pop-burst people with the UACs or navigate taller terrain. Both the HBK and HMN will have "see it shoot it" hardpoints for those guns, as well. HBK has side torsos that end where the cockpit is, but the HMN will have narrower side torsos which may be harder to latch onto. It's an extremely close comparison, there.

Perhaps the biggest knock against the HMN, in this case, is that it cannot stick both UAC10 in the same torso, but, personally? I prefer symmetrical builds, anyways, as they are harder to disable by getting one torso focused down. It's a play style preference differentiation in that.

Similar comparison crops up with the 2x LPLas 2x ERMLas setups. Same benefits, same limitations. Slightly higher jumps on the HMN. Slightly higher cockpit placement on the HBK.

With missile based builds, the HMN is outright superior to the HBK-IIC. In HEAVY ballistics (Gauss/LBX20/UAC20) or multi-small-dakka setups, the HBK will be superior to the HMN. However, that is the extreme end of the ballistic setup spectrum.

However, in mixed builds, such as Gauss-Vom, the HMN is far superior to the HBK. It could easily fit a Gauss, plenty of ammo, and 6 ERMLas, or, if you prefer, a Gauss, ERPPC (or LPLas), and 3 ERMLas. This is not something that Hunchback has access to in any way, shape, or form. This is more of a Stormcrow thing, which it compares with well, too. It simply trades ~15 KPH for the ability to jump jet. This lets it poptart, something the 'crow can never do, or be a superior brawling platform due to the extra mobility and hitbox distortion jump jets provide in a knife fight.

Compared to the Nova, the HMN will never be as capable in boating a ludicrous number of smaller lasers. It just will not. That is ok, and the Nova has its own flaws, but this keeps the mech relevant. Keeps the choices in the 50-ton category competitive with one another.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 29 September 2016 - 06:30 AM.

[STEF_]

Pariah Devalis, on 29 September 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

As someone who has been lobbying for this particular mech for two years, now, I don't think I ever thought it would be the best medium mech we have. However, what I believed, and what I still believe at this point, is that it will offer a fantastic sidegrade mech. Something effectively equal to other options.

For example, we see a lot of Hunchback IIC with 2x UAC10 and 2x ERMLas. What if I told you that you could fit a Huntsman with 2x UAC10 and 2x ERSLas, plenty of ammunition, and an extra jump jet, at the expense of most of the arm armor? It would be ever so slightly slower (what, 3 kph?) and lack the range of the ERMLas that the HBK has, but the ERMLas builds up excessive heat on that build, anyways, and the extra Jump Jet will help it pop-burst people with the UACs or navigate taller terrain. Both the HBK and HMN will have "see it shoot it" hardpoints for those guns, as well. HBK has side torsos that end where the cockpit is, but the HMN will have narrower side torsos which may be harder to latch onto. It's an extremely close comparison, there.

Perhaps the biggest knock against the HMN, in this case, is that it cannot stick both UAC10 in the same torso, but, personally? I prefer symmetrical builds, anyways, as they are harder to disable by getting one torso focused down. It's a play style preference differentiation in that.

Similar comparison crops up with the 2x LPLas 2x ERMLas setups. Same benefits, same limitations. Slightly higher jumps on the HMN. Slightly higher cockpit placement on the HBK.

With missile based builds, the HMN is outright superior to the HBK-IIC. In HEAVY ballistics (Gauss/LBX20/UAC20) or multi-small-dakka setups, the HBK will be superior to the HMN. However, that is the extreme end of the ballistic setup spectrum.

However, in mixed builds, such as Gauss-Vom, the HMN is far superior to the HBK. It could easily fit a Gauss, plenty of ammo, and 6 ERMLas, or, if you prefer, a Gauss, ERPPC (or LPLas), and 3 ERMLas. This is not something that Hunchback has access to in any way, shape, or form. This is more of a Stormcrow thing, which it compares with well, too. It simply trades ~15 KPH for the ability to jump jet. This lets it poptart, something the 'crow can never do, or be a superior brawling platform due to the extra mobility and hitbox distortion jump jets provide in a knife fight.

Compared to the Nova, the HMN will never be as capable in boating a ludicrous number of smaller lasers. It just will not. That is ok, and the Nova has its own flaws, but this keeps the mech relevant. Keeps the choices in the 50-ton category competitive with one another.

I'm theoricrafting a lot my huntsman, using Solaris Skunk.
I want to publish a love-guide to the Huntsman, in a few days.

Let's exchange ideas!

[Pariah Devalis]

Stefka Kerensky, on 30 September 2016 - 06:26 AM, said:

I'm theoricrafting a lot my huntsman, using Solaris Skunk.
I want to publish a love-guide to the Huntsman, in a few days.

Let's exchange ideas!

Sure. Keep an eye on your inbox. I have been using Megameklab, as I did before every mech launch I've been interested. Fun factoid is, I've had Huntsman and Night Gyr builds squirreled away for well over a year now..... >_>


Always fun to deploy a mech I had designed for a good, long time before they were even announced, and see how they perform.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 30 September 2016 - 06:38 PM.

[STEF_]

Pariah Devalis, on 30 September 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

Sure. Keep an eye on your inbox. I have been using Megameklab, as I did before every mech launch I've been interested. Fun factoid is, I've had Huntsman and Night Gyr builds squirreled away for well over a year now..... >_>


Always fun to deploy a mech I had designed for a good, long time before they were even announced, and see how they perform.

yea, me too.
But not for every mech.
I don't know what it is, but certain mechs "click" some buttons in my brain and make me fall in love with them...apparently for no reason
The Huntsman is one of those.

[Pariah Devalis]

Stefka Kerensky, on 30 September 2016 - 10:21 PM, said:

yea, me too.
But not for every mech.
I don't know what it is, but certain mechs "click" some buttons in my brain and make me fall in love with them...apparently for no reason
The Huntsman is one of those.

Plenty of reasons!

• Good looking
  
• Insane amount of weapon configurations it can run well
  
• Good looking
  
• Can actually get some air with its jump jets
  
• Belongs to the best Clan ever (Nova Cats!)
  
• Has a lot of value for the tonnage as far as a weapons package is concerned
  
• Looks absolutely incredible