18 replies to this topic

[Jorgamundir]

Currently I have 10mil to spend, but money is no question. From what I've seen in game an AS7-S is pretty tanky so I was planning on it being my next purchase with this build in mind
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d1eff62786e7662

I've been running my freedommech KGC-000 because it was the first mech I bought and this loadout is actually serving me pretty well but I want something new
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...270e35014b8c92c

I don't have any medium mech as of now, but I'm open to ideas. I'm an opportunist player, and generally in QP matches I'll lead the charge and the crab works well at crushing the enemy lines but survivability leaves something to be desired. Feel free to critique and give your experiences on what you think a brawler needs. I want something that is decent on any map, not just urban or wide open spaces, what do you guys recommend?

[Mazzyplz]

atlas is no jack of all trades because it's so big it's not suitable for shooting ER weapons honestly, esp. if you only got 1.
the 85 ton stalker has no arms basically, so i wouldn't use that to peek either, you have to park your whole blimp out in the open to shoot the ERLL.



you want something like a zeus or an awesome IMO. something 80 tons will be fast enough and compact enough to sneak it's arm around the corner and shoot erll to support any sniping your team is doing.
a mauler can also work. you can have great ballistics for long range and then some stuff to fight up closer when you close the dist through the trenches.



the aws 8v is quite easy to pilot. (maybe the only easy to pilot awesome)


edit: wrong armor values... oops.
shows me i shouldn't do this by memory without looking at client.

look below.

Edited by Mazzyplz, 15 June 2016 - 02:51 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

just realized i put the wrong values for armor on sidetorso.. and i forgot.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...92029b4bcc7edcf

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...885ecf680ba88b9

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...64fd292e59fe366


check out revised build below;
(quirk changed.)

Edited by Mazzyplz, 22 June 2016 - 12:38 AM.

[Moldur]

My founder Atlas runs something like this. It still has a powerful up close alpha and the large lasers + uac-5s give it some good damage outside of the 270m cage, letting it dissuade early peekers until I can close with people.

Here is the exact build I use: AS7-D

It doesn't look very brawl-y on paper, but it has worked very well for me. I have pulled multiple 1000+ damage games out of it when it was only basic'd
My weapon groups are: large lasers 1, UAC-5s 2, SRM-4s 3, medium lasers 4. Not ideal for simplicity, but usually when I have to use all the weapon groups, it is only once or twice before something dies.

Jack of all trades and brawler tend to be used as mutually exclusive terms, but I hope that build fits your criteria.

[Void Angel]

Jorgamundir, on 15 June 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

Currently I have 10mil to spend, but money is no question. From what I've seen in game an AS7-S is pretty tanky so I was planning on it being my next purchase with this build in mind
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d1eff62786e7662

I've been running my freedommech KGC-000 because it was the first mech I bought and this loadout is actually serving me pretty well but I want something new
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...270e35014b8c92c

I don't have any medium mech as of now, but I'm open to ideas. I'm an opportunist player, and generally in QP matches I'll lead the charge and the crab works well at crushing the enemy lines but survivability leaves something to be desired. Feel free to critique and give your experiences on what you think a brawler needs. I want something that is decent on any map, not just urban or wide open spaces, what do you guys recommend?

Don't take this to indicate that I'm annoyed with you, or that I think you're a bad player, or that you're dumb. It's just that this game is complex, and some of the relationships to decisions you make in the MechLab and the results of those decisions on the battlefield can be hard to understand at first:

You're asking for liquid water ice here: a brawler is by definition a build focused on close combat - and a jack of all trades doesn't focus on anything, instead mistakenly believing that being mediocre at all ranges lends flexibility. In order to be a good brawler, your 'mech needs to be able to sustain heavy damage at close range, and that's not a goal compatible with mounting ER Large Lasers. Additionally, an Atlas - any of them - simply will not have the proper number and placements of hardpoints to support a "jack-of-all-trades" build even in the unhappy event you decide to try one: all of the Atlas' ballistic and energy hardpoints are very low/wide, requiring that you expose a huge amount of your 'mech even to corner peek - and since the missile and ballistic hardpoints are all crammed together in the same respective torso, the Atlas is hugely restricted in terms of what will fit.

The build you linked has multiple issues related to this:

• First, you have a mismatched hodge-podge of weapons. This sort of thing worked fine on tabletop where play was turn-based, but trying to juggle five different weapon types (one of which is split between CT and one arm) with different cooldowns will be too complicated to efficiently handle. Efficiency matters, no matter how good you are.
  
• Second, and really part of the previous point, you're trying to be a jack of all trades, with an ERLL for poking long-range and the LB-10x, SRMs, and MLasers for short-range brawling. There's no way to sugar-coat it and still get the proper emphasis here: you are going to get ROFLPWNED in close combat with a real brawler. Take Your Build and put it side by side with This One. If you go flat-out, you can put out 18.8 dps, but you have to stare at your target almost continuously to do it (the ERLL burns for 1.125 seconds after you alpha, then you've got 1.375 seconds till the LB-X recycles, then you're ready to fire the SRM4s, etc.) The other guy, on the other hand, has all the same weapon types and mostly long cooldowns: he'll blast you with his alpha, sans ML, twist to spread your damage for about 4 seconds, and then hammer you with it all again - and in the same location.
  
• There are numerous niggling details in the build that are simply caused by unfamiliarity. You're using CASE, you have too much ammo, You stripped armor from the legs before the arms, and you're under-upgraded. You should note that my alternate build (which I would recommend for Atlas-S brawling) has fit Endo-steel at the expense of some of that extra ammo and 4 tons of weaponry - then used the savings to buy a bigger engine to not only drastically increase agility and mobility (torso twist rate is related to engine size,) but also to mount an additional heat sink with the improved internal engine space. Also, put ammo in your head; it's only got a 10% chance to go off if it happens to be destroyed anyway, and the number of times that ammo will both be destroyed by a crit and explode from damage that doesn't just blast your head into smithereens in the first place is so vanishingly small that people have played avidly for years without having it happen. Finally, you don't need that Beagle Active Probe.

A word on the "jack of all trades." If you try to make a 'mech that's moderately good at all ranges, you can succeed - but the technical term for "moderately good at all ranges" is "mediocre." If you insist on a few brawling weapons, and a few sniping weapons, and a few mid-range weapons, and some LRMs for when you have a spotter... You're going to end up with an Assault 'mech that fights like a Medium at all ranges. And that's going to go badly for you once you get to be playing with people who are starting to focus their 'mechs. You're going to poke at some guy with your ERLL, and lose, because he's got dual gauss rifles, or ERPPCs. If they're not specialized snipers, they're not going to poke. Same thing with mid-range corner-pokers and hill-humpers, and especially with LRM boats. It's ok (and sometimes required) to have backup weapons for short and/or long range, but don't try to construct a 'mech that's nonspecialized.

All that being said, there are weapons that can operate well at multiple ranges, often due to drawbacks such as weight or rate of fire. So! If you want an Atlas that has a bit more flexibility than the knife-range brawler I linked above: Use This.

PS: You should also be aware that the Pilot Skills are extremely important to getting the most out of any Chassis. Until you have the full array of Elite skills bought, your 'mechs will not be operating at their full potential - the difference is noticeable for all 'mechs, and particularly of note for Assault, Light, and Clantech chassis.

[Neput Z34]

"Jack of all trades" AND "Brawler"?
If I understand correctly. you a looking for a "Skirmisher build with a Brawl capability"? As in mid range weapons for targets 500 - 300m and short range weapons for 200m or less?

Something like this: ►STK-5M(LPL/MPL+SRMs)◄ , ►KGC-0000(AC20+LPL)◄ , ►KGC-0000(LPL+SRMs)◄ .

Maybe some kind of 350-375 XL engine fit Banshee / Battlemaster / Zeus / Victor build, but those are more expensive and don't survive long in a brawl, while in the open ground, especially Zeus and Victor.

P.S. On the builds above, it's either Lasers OR SRMs, NOT BOTH! Unless you find your self in a "Dire Situation/ Straights", then push override and fire everything in hope you will wreck someone before your mech is wrecked.

Edited by Neput Z34, 15 June 2016 - 05:11 PM.

[Jebe457]

If you want a flex Assault, this is what you get if you adapt the classic Stalker flex loadout:
STK-3F
STK-5S

As with lore the idea here is your primarily using the missile launcher and lasers associated with a given range bracket. The BAP is primarily there to increase your sensor range and give you the paper doll faster so you can target more effectively, while also insuring that if a Light starts trying to nibble you to death your situational awareness doesn't get screwed over by his ECM.

This is an example of what you get if you adapt the classic Flex Medium:
SHD-2D

These can be highly effective and reliable performers, but the philosophy of use when running a Flex Mech is you're a team player that's using your flexible layout to contribute to the team as situations evolve, resulting in a stable high average pattern. In contrast a specialized Mech needs to be able to setup the situation its designed for, which tends to result in a feast or famine pattern.

If you don't already have a feel for the difference I'd suggest running Hunchbacks and Shadowhawks setup like above to get a feel for good specialized Mechs versus flex Mechs. The Hunchback 4P and 4SP with a 275 STD are very solid Brawler Mediums that can give you a good feel for the playstyle, and the entire chassi line is solid. Mind that positioning, and intelligent maneuver has more to do with your survival and effectiveness than tonnage.

--- --- ---

Looking over your build I assume that your probably have the King Crab grouped something lines of:
Group 1: 3x AC/5 + ER LL
Group 2: SRMs+MGs+MPL

Basically what you had there is a Rifleman with short range back up weapons. Similar to what some people do with a Banshee 3E psuedo-Jagermech, which looks something like this. I can see how that could work on a King Crab. I think you'd find your Atlas build dysfunctional. That Large laser is mounts way lower relative to your cockpit than the AC/5s on the King Crab so will get "caught" on things a lot more often than not. Simply put what you have there is an unoptimized specialist, and would not work as a flex setup.

Edited by Jebe457, 15 June 2016 - 09:07 PM.

[Wedge Red Leader]

Jorgamundir, on 15 June 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

Currently I have 10mil to spend, but money is no question. From what I've seen in game an AS7-S is pretty tanky so I was planning on it being my next purchase with this build in mind
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d1eff62786e7662

I've been running my freedommech KGC-000 because it was the first mech I bought and this loadout is actually serving me pretty well but I want something new
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...270e35014b8c92c

I don't have any medium mech as of now, but I'm open to ideas. I'm an opportunist player, and generally in QP matches I'll lead the charge and the crab works well at crushing the enemy lines but survivability leaves something to be desired. Feel free to critique and give your experiences on what you think a brawler needs. I want something that is decent on any map, not just urban or wide open spaces, what do you guys recommend?

Well, here is the thing. I want you to enjoy MWO, so giving you a brawling build ain't really going to help you. In quick play, a brawling build will get you killed fast 9 of 10 matches, at least until you are really really good. You should focus on building something with weapons to go out about 300-600 meters, and that runs cool. Your King crab build was close, but you have made the same mistakes almost every new player does. You pilled on every weapon under the sun. After playing a while everyone figures out you need to focus on a weapon range, and play the mech to that range. A mixed bag like you have been running is at best mediocre at any range. I tweaked your King Crab build, please look at what I have done.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3d1a7c4076ac973

Try to keep people about 300-700 meters away, and I guarantee you will see a big change. And even if people get in close with you, you will still be better off than before.

For your next mech I suggest the Blackjacks. The 1X Blackjack is very good, if you enjoy using lasers.
Hit me up in game if you want more help.
Good luck.

Edited by Wedge Red Leader, 15 June 2016 - 09:13 PM.

[Red Shrike]

My AS-7S(L) pretty much runs the stock AS-7D loadout but with a bigger engine. Works like a charm.

[The Basilisk]

Not a jack of all trades but a loadout that gives you a certain flexibility. AS7-S
You can fire the weapons with 2 or three buttons.
Lasers for ranges around 300 - 400 m and the SRMs and LBX when you get closer.
Key to drive an Atlas is shoot twist shoot twist dont look at an enemy and wait for lasers to burn out or cool down.

[Aethermech]

Another question that might need to be asked, Do you already have your KGC mastered and you're looking for a new chassis, or are you just looking for a new mech to play that's setup a little differently??

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...353fbc6dc5f5b9e

This is my brawl KGC, most of the weapons focus on the brawl range, with modules the effective range of all the weapons is 297m with the ac/10's reaching out to 900 max (which i never use even on polar waste of ammo taking the super long shots). If you're looking for a new chassis to play on i would suggest the awesome, battlemaster, maraudar, warhammer. They can all be tanky enough to brawl, and can be packed with the 300-600 range weapons

[Mad Dog Morgan]

Unfortunately, I used to think this way, too, with the idea that I'd handle multiple situations. I could go and explain what happened, but I'm rather short on time. Turns out, it wasn't such a great idea.

Matching the range profiles on your weapons is ideally what you want to go for. If you want to hit hard at 500 meters, you go for a mid-range loadout. If you want to hit hard at 150 meters, you go for a short-range loadout with a high alpha.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1893154fff7ee15
so here we have exactly what you want!

it is a brawler, and also a jack of all trades!
it has ecm for stealth coverage
its got short range high alpha damage
it has high armor tanking value
it has super super fast speed! its basically as fast as a light mech (urbanmech)
it also has long range support... (it can outrange any machine gun mech)
it has good hit boxes
it has missles for you missle guys
it has balistics for you balistics guys
and it also has lasers for you laser vomit guys!

Edited by Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, 18 June 2016 - 10:05 AM.

[Ade the Rare]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...57a1116415f5b72

it is a brawler, and also a jack of all trades!
it has a very low profile which makes it tough as hell to hit
its got alpha damage...
it has high armor tanking value, relative to it's size
it has super super fast speed! its basically as fast as a light mech (urbanmech)
it also has long range support... (it can outrange any machine gun mech)
it has good hit boxes
it doesn't have LRMs for you guys who can aim
it has ballistics because ballistics rawk
and it also has lasers for you laser vomit guys!

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

AdetheRare, on 18 June 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...57a1116415f5b72

it is a brawler, and also a jack of all trades!
it has a very low profile which makes it tough as hell to hit
its got alpha damage...
it has high armor tanking value, relative to it's size
it has super super fast speed! its basically as fast as a light mech (urbanmech)
it also has long range support... (it can outrange any machine gun mech)
it has good hit boxes
it doesn't have LRMs for you guys who can aim
it has ballistics because ballistics rawk
and it also has lasers for you laser vomit guys!

^this is the correct answer! Thread is officially answered!

[hordes1ayer2]

The jager mechs are pretty good all around. You can do a lot with the. Send me a message if you are interested and i can shoe u some builds and tactics.

[zudukai]

Shadow hawks. they are basically the best IS skirmisher medium with the most versatile payload, up to a max of 4m, 4e, and 3b, with each chassis focusing on a specific trait, for example the SHD-2H is the 3 ballistic version and has 3 missile, and 1 energy, where another variant, the 2d2 has 1b, 4m, and 2e.

you can usually build them to be around 90kph to be faster then heavies, and still have a very strong punch.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8c23ad3d1a557d0

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3098d91f48521d6

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7415f43605a3413

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8c6900feaf9496c

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d050bd193704469

Edited by zudukai, 20 June 2016 - 09:31 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

the nova and hunchback with 9 medium lasers is also a rounded out fighting machine

and by nova i mean nova prime with as many c-ermeds as you can manage. i go for 12

it's kinda like a jack of all trades because they are good at mid and short range as well and they are good hit and run platforms as well as good support mech.

[Mazzyplz]

Mazzyplz, on 15 June 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

just realized i put the wrong values for armor on sidetorso.. and i forgot.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...92029b4bcc7edcf

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...885ecf680ba88b9

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...64fd292e59fe366

okay. i have to make a revision here;
i updated the build slightly this version i guarantee kicks butt.


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...69b6b7787d64151


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a9934a22b7f0091


just changed 1 LL for one ERLL. that's all.
the laser punch is good at mid to long ranges and the heat is nothing the mech can't handle.

if you find yourself at a good range to use srms then use em and see if you need to move or use your lasers

you can let a cloud of srms rip if an enemy comes up to your face and you have to scramble. they are a good deterrent so they go back to cover and you also go your own way back to your team.

not really a facehugging mech - so don't play it like that.
rely mostly on the lasers shoot all the lasers in a big alpha or the 3 big ones and the medlas as you're moving back. if an enemy is close you can start with srms, shoot lasers as you fade back into cover.

at long range you got 2erll +10% range from quirk +cooldown mod which isn't horrible, if you can take a free shot at that dist then take it.
at medium range it has great laser vomit with range quirk+mod.
up close it has a volley of 16 srms coming all from the same sidetorso, and the mounts for those srms are high
it's very decent in most ranges of engagement as a poking mech.

modules: radar derp, lpl range, srm6 cooldown (so it syncs with the srm4), erll cooldown. and i like coolshots as consumable.



edit: (reason for the change added here)
i felt the large laser was worth it due to the previous quirk the mech had (+15% energy range.) but that was nerfed a couple patches ago when they decided 10% range quirk for inner sphere was the limit. i haven't played this mech a whole lot in the meantime, but the loss of the quirk definitely merits a change i find; as a result of the quirk loss the large laser now saves heat but it doesn't really do what a ERLL does in this revised build. basically we're trading heat for the range we lost

Edited by Mazzyplz, 22 June 2016 - 03:01 AM.