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Outside The Box Construction-Tbt-J "fist-V"

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#1 Darkhorse13Golf

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 02:12 PM

So, like many of you, I am finding that one of the most fun aspects of this game is the build customization. In fact one of my favorite things to do is play "mad scientist" and make a chassis do something it wasnt designed to do. Usually this doesn't work out so well, but every now and then I get a pleasant surprise and have one work. I have a Cat C1 brawler and a self defending T-bolt LRM boat as just two examples of success. Which brings us to the Trebuchet.

The Trenchbucket holds a special place for me as it was the first Mech I tried that I did well in. As time has gone on and I have improved with other Mechs it has kind have gotten shelved. Then I began tinkering with my TBT-J. This was my least favorite Trenchbucket because I just wasn't sure what to do with it. I made it a jump capable brawler and while it was adequate, there were far more capable platforms. Tried a sniper but the arms are slung a bit low for some situations (though poptarting is an option). So what could I do with this damn thing.

Then a random thought hit me. Trebuchets are missile support mechs so why not make a spotter version. Now there are a few inherent problems with the TBT-J in this role. The first one that jumped out at me was the fact that a TBT is a bit of a larger target then the light mechs that traditionally fill these roles. The next glaring issue is that almost all the hardpoints are in the arms making shielding pretty hard. These are some pretty big problems but there are some pretty good upsides too.

You can make this mech quite mobile between the decent speed and JJ. The armor along with this speed and mobility can make for a surprisingly survivable mech if one understands it's primary role is to support artillery and fighting comes second. That being said you can still pack some solid firepower to keep this mech viable in a fight if need be as well as defend itself long enough to disengage.

The primary armament of this mech is twin ERLL allowing to engage in long range direct fire support when spotting is not a good idea at that time. Backing this up is two medium lasers to add a little close up punch. Now to the main part of this mech's loadout.

The single missile hardpoint is located in the right torso and here I put a NARC launcher with two tons of reloads. On the left arm is placed a TAG and finally a BAP is in the left torso. I wish I had ECM on this thing but hey, got to work with what you have. Loadout is as follows.

2 ERLL (1 each arm)
2 ML (1 each arm)
1 NARC with 2 tons ammo (RT)
1 TAG (RA)
1 BAP (LT)
Armor 336/338
Speed 99.3
XL285
5 JJ

I will be trying this in a few days and wouldn't mind some thoughts about this. Thanks guys :)

Edited by Darkhorse13Golf, 19 June 2016 - 11:54 PM.


#2 Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 02:27 PM

what did i just sawed?

#3 Darkhorse13Golf

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 10:03 PM

Lol it can't be THAT bad.


#4 Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 11:49 PM

Your solid wall of text is hard to read through.

I read through it, but because its one huge paragraph; my primary focus gravitates towards the words T-bolt LRM boat.

By the time I finished the whole post, my brain is scrambled with too many ideas.

Edited by Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, 19 June 2016 - 11:50 PM.


#5 Darkhorse13Golf

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 11:52 PM

Sorry I don't post too often lol. Let me fix that.

#6 Darkhorse13Golf

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 11:55 PM

Post fixed lol

#7 Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 12:38 AM

Well, if you are sure you would not mind some thoughts about your load out...

The main problem I have with this mech, is its extreme mixed range of support.

It has ERLL weaponry for extreme long range poking, as well as tag for long targeting support.

But it also has medium lasers, bap and narc with 2 tonnes allocated to it, which is for a much closer engagement.

Because of these two extreme natures, I am having a hard time visualizing your attack pattern.

Do you sit in the far back and just aim your tag?
Do you scout behind enemy lines and aim your tag?
Do you rush in and do narc runs?

While fast mechs accel at repositioning, you are not exactly the fastest mech on the battlefield. There are many devestating mechs that keep pace long enough to cripple you (or out right out run and out gun you). Heck even the new 100 ton kodiak kdk-sb can pace long enough to lay the smack down.

The problem lies with not knowing your heat efficiency. Are you able to defend your self if you go deep into enemy lines long enough to expend 2 tons of narc ammo? Can you effectivelly make use of the tonnage used up by the bap, narc and ammo?

#8 Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 01:43 AM

On btw- I dont want to come off as confrontational about your build. I ask all the above questions because I am trying to visualize your Guide and/or Strategy to this forum post.

I really cant visualize the attack pattern of the mech.

#9 Darkhorse13Golf

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 04:14 AM

Lol it's fine. Like I said this is a mad scientist build just to see if it was even viable. You raised some good points, which was the whole point of this post. Just because I like an idea doesn't mean it's a good one. In trying to cover all my bases I might have stretched the attack profiles too thin. Maybe dropping the NARC and focusing the TAG aspect would be in order. Or perhaps making it up close and brawly while keeping the NARC. I will think on this a bit and see how it goes. I was in the Army for a time and this concept came from an armored vehicle known as a FIST-V that was used as an artillery spotter. Just for fun I am trying to see if that concept would work in MWO. Guess I'm going back to the drawing board. I'm not giving up on the concept of a medium FIST-V mech quite yet ;)

#10 IraqiWalker

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 04:27 AM

I personally prefer to have similar engagement ranges on most my weapons. When you allocate 2 ERLLs to a mech as light as the TBT, you can't use those as just back ups. They take up your primary method of damage dealing.

Personally, I'd swap all your lasers, for MPLs, keep the NARC, Maybe keep the tag, or swap it too for another

Or:TBT-5J

#11 Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 10:38 AM

1 thing to think about.

In real life military engagements, both sides can field as much troops and armorment as they want. They dont go and try to balance the numbers to make an even fight. Thats why the military can field such units like your FIST-V.

In mwo, you are forced into a 12v12 (or 4v4, or even 8v8). The player counts are exact. So you must carry your weight for your team. You must try do the work of a full person. That is where optimization comes in.

Because of this, you must be able to defend yourself if the situations arrives. No one else can you defend you, when you are off alone doing your spotting.

Your fellow atlas will not hang back in ERLL range and escort you.

And your fellow jenner wont just run in with you for your narc run unless hes running at top speed looking for backs to open. 99.3 is just to slow for a jenner to move at- he will want to go over a 110+ if he feels hes the only one who can pack real punch. At that point, you need to be able to defend your self, because he will probably disengage and move on to look for another target to assassinate.

I like Iraqiwalkers mech proposal. Those medium pulses can pack quite a punch and a pretty decent rate of fire. Because of that, both you and your wingmate actually stand a better chance of winning a dogfight should things get hairy.

#12 Darkhorse13Golf

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 11:55 AM

Guys this is great positive feedback on what is admittedly a wacky idea. Looking at this I came up with two options. The first is pretty much what you guys suggested.

2 MPL each arm and a NARC with two tons of ammm. Along with this I have a 325XL pushing it to 113.2 and 5 JJ as well as 1 extra DHS and BAP.

The other one I have came up with is the total opposite. A long range TAG with ERLL that have a similar range profile.

I was able to cram 3 ERLL's along with the TAG. An extra heat sink placed in the 300XL engine puts this guy going around 104.5. Also has 4 JJ to get to good vantage points. Don't think it will be as much fun as the NARC version but it also seems more logical. Going to save up and get both engines the next few days and see how the work.

#13 Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 03:03 PM

both seem pretty good- the 3 ERLL can pack quite a good punch at long range, which is nice

#14 IraqiWalker

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 03:55 PM

View PostDarkhorse13Golf, on 20 June 2016 - 11:55 AM, said:

Guys this is great positive feedback on what is admittedly a wacky idea. Looking at this I came up with two options. The first is pretty much what you guys suggested.

2 MPL each arm and a NARC with two tons of ammm. Along with this I have a 325XL pushing it to 113.2 and 5 JJ as well as 1 extra DHS and BAP.

The other one I have came up with is the total opposite. A long range TAG with ERLL that have a similar range profile.

I was able to cram 3 ERLL's along with the TAG. An extra heat sink placed in the 300XL engine puts this guy going around 104.5. Also has 4 JJ to get to good vantage points. Don't think it will be as much fun as the NARC version but it also seems more logical. Going to save up and get both engines the next few days and see how the work.


I really like both, just be cautious, and very mobile when using the ERLL version, since your energy mounts are somewhat lower mounted.

For the record, I love wacky ideas, and I think yours has merit, but in this game, trying to be the jack of all trades leaves you at a huge disadvantage unless you have the speed to dictate the engagement range, because everyone else is going to specialize into one, maybe 2 things, and they will beat you in those, unless you can change the engagement to something you have the edge in.

#15 Darkhorse13Golf

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 05:33 PM

Yeah I know that Jack of all trades thing doesn't usually work well lol. I appreciate the help too. You guys actually are the ones that convinced me to go either TAG or NARC not both. The NARC version will be interesting since I can drop a NARC in a brawl to enhance missiles supporting the fight directly and make them more effective. Not to mention nailing a light mech with a NARC would be a nasty surprise for him. Hopefully at least one of these designs has actual success to guys interested in adding the role warfare aspect of the game to their mechs and offer a unique option. This community is way more friendly then World of Tanks. Thanks again.

Edited by Darkhorse13Golf, 20 June 2016 - 05:44 PM.


#16 IraqiWalker

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 07:52 PM

View PostDarkhorse13Golf, on 20 June 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

Yeah I know that Jack of all trades thing doesn't usually work well lol. I appreciate the help too. You guys actually are the ones that convinced me to go either TAG or NARC not both. The NARC version will be interesting since I can drop a NARC in a brawl to enhance missiles supporting the fight directly and make them more effective. Not to mention nailing a light mech with a NARC would be a nasty surprise for him. Hopefully at least one of these designs has actual success to guys interested in adding the role warfare aspect of the game to their mechs and offer a unique option. This community is way more friendly then World of Tanks. Thanks again.

We try to help as much as we can, instead of yelling "L2P NOOB!". However, there are people like that here.

Also, as someone who used to pilot LRM boats, I really like your build

#17 Darkhorse13Golf

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 09:41 PM

I cut my teeth on LRM boats. I bought a founders pack way back and chose the CAT-C1 as my mech. Had a blast running it and my C4. Then I bought Griffins since they were my TT mech of choice but sucked horribly with them back then. Got into Trenchbuckets and absolutely loved them. Now I'm a bit of a better player and have a stable full of brawlers, scouts and stuff lol.

#18 Omniseed

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 06:31 PM

I'm admittedly a newer player, but I kind of like the idea of doubling down on your targeting aids, the TAG and NARC are very different in use and having both equipped means you have a dedicated spotter to learn on regardless of the way any given battle plays out.

You never know when you suddenly have to deal with a swarm of enemies around a single corner, peeking and nailing one at a time with the NARC could be a match-changing tactic if you have some LRM-equipped 'mechs available.

And I'm learning the hard way lately that a 'mech with no large lasers is basically naked for the opening half of most matches, but that short-range weaponry is essential for close encounters. I heartily support mixed loadouts as long as the end result leaves you able to contribute at a meta-typical 800-1000 yards and also able to bump the DPS at least a little when the heavy comes around the corner at you.

#19 xengk

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 03:23 AM

I like it.
But I would drop the BAP and TAG.
BAP wont benefit you, while the TAG is helpful to your team, it require you to stand still in a large humanoid mech with thin armour.

Go with:
2x LL
3x ML
NARC 2.5t ammo
XL 300
4 JJ

As a fast skirmisher/NARC-er.
The LL gives you mid-range punch from behind a friendly heavy or assault.
Triple ML when to sneak up on a target and stab their mech kidney, before NARC them and run away at 105kph. Triple SPL works too.

#20 Darkhorse13Golf

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Posted 15 July 2016 - 02:50 PM

View Postxengk, on 28 June 2016 - 03:23 AM, said:

I like it.
But I would drop the BAP and TAG.
BAP wont benefit you, while the TAG is helpful to your team, it require you to stand still in a large humanoid mech with thin armour.

Go with:
2x LL
3x ML
NARC 2.5t ammo
XL 300
4 JJ

As a fast skirmisher/NARC-er.
The LL gives you mid-range punch from behind a friendly heavy or assault.
Triple ML when to sneak up on a target and stab their mech kidney, before NARC them and run away at 105kph. Triple SPL works too.


I might give this a shot too. I like having a bit of range on my mechs and this might be pretty good too.





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