53 replies to this topic

[akhv]

Avimimus, on 26 June 2016 - 08:04 PM, said:

What mech most violates the current meta?
I'd assume a mixture of flamers and LRMs would be promising.
Or maybe just running a stock mech? Or an Inner Sphere light?
Or a scout mech (Active probe, TAG, NARC)? Any other ideas?

Note - The builds should still be efficient (i.e. not a troll build)!

We should only be discussing legitimate builds that are mistreated by the current meta.

I actually bought com2d just to make a pacifist scout build with narc and tag. Imagine my dissappointment when MWO said that it's not a valid build because it got no weapons.

[invernomuto]

Archers with hybrid LRM build (lrms + lasers/srms).

[Tesunie]

Basically... almost all of my builds.

Hunchback 4J (and 4SP): Brings LRMs, without boating them. Has enough close range punch to still be a threat. By Meta, doesn't focus enough on a single role. Not enough ammo for LRM spam. Not enough cooling/close range for brawling. Meta would say replace LRMs with SRMs.

Atlas 7S: Has an LBx10. Enough probably said there. Then, it also carries two LLs, which diversifies the build into a more mixed build. Once again, probably considered too slow, and not focused enough. (Yet can melt another assault in 3-4 volleys up close.)

Stalker 3F: I've been told it's like I "mashed a Jenner and a Catapult together". Another mixed build, which doesn't focus "enough" in a single role. Either it "isn't boating enough LRMs" or "a Jenner can have the same close range punch you've got". Has worked very well for me though.

Jagermech 6A: Probably my most "un-meta" mech I can think of. It does the big "no no" of mixing ACs and LRMs together. Yet, be it indirect or direct, it can at least continue to fight. Can have good DPS with the Ultras, or they each jam at the same time leaving me stranded... I've had moderate luck with this. By itself pugging, it's a bit random sometimes. In a team (even a small one) it seems to be a good compliment and a useful tool.

Oh... I could post so many other "non-meta" mechs that work (for me). So many...

[B L O O D W I T C H]

ExoForce, on 28 June 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

12 TAG chain-fired Nova can bring 100.000 Cr on a good match.
(No trolling, they do not stack etc...)

Tho, it would work the same with a single TAG.
Tried to mount an additional tag into a ST? you can TAG two targets and double your income.
(done that with a spider 5D, just pretending to be a blade of grass an TAG the hell out of it.

Bud Crue, on 28 June 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

What? By putting what you calll "a meta load out" on a Victor renders it a "meta" mech in your view? I don't think so. There is NOTHING meta about a Victor as it currently exists in this game, regardless of its build Making something as efficient as possible despite its limitations does not make it meta.

Havn't said that, You can emulate current meta loadouts and tactics with a victor, it does work but it doesn't particular shines at it.

If you try to make the victor a "current meta" killer/counter you'll get toasted. That's what i meant with "Victor doesn't work as a "non-meta" mech."

The only thing which comes close to that idea is to go extreme longrange with gauss+ppc to counter the current peek-aboo lolpha faction (be it vomit or dakkaboat) and SRM brawler.
But even then you'll get cornered more often then not and other meta sniper will still pick you apart.

[Doc Payback]

Here is the KDK-3 aka Thunderhead:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c8ec1eaffcb79e2

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Doc Payback, on 28 June 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

Here is the KDK-3 aka Thunderhead:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c8ec1eaffcb79e2

Not that uncommon actually.

Anyone tried a direwolf with 15 largelasers?

Semi-usable UAC20 poptart

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 28 June 2016 - 03:53 PM.

[General Solo]

Summoner
LRM10 x 4
Narc

Thats it

I run it on the front line mostly
Works OK T2 and below, T1 not so much
It's my sleepy time build cuz I only have to aim (The Narc) once every 40 seconds.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 28 June 2016 - 04:33 PM.

[Vermin]

Well, the current meta seems to favor pretty much anything but gauss rifles... So, anything with gauss rifles?

[Joe Decker]

Mazzyplz, on 26 June 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

six flamers? isn't that de facto trolling?

i don't get what the OP means though. if the build is good then it's good, meta or not. and if it's bad then it's bad.

by anti meta i guess you mean the least suspected mechs of being good?



my pick is awesome 9m right now.

with 2er ppc and 1 ppc, and medpulses

however it doesn't "suffer from current meta"
it's just not very popular.

Try that Mech with 2 ERPPC and 2 LPL - it's a Beast - and yes, the Awesome is one of the most underrated Mechs currently.

[Mad Dog Morgan]

FS9-K, 6ML, 2 Flamers in the arms.

[jss78]

Tesunie, on 28 June 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

Jagermech 6A: Probably my most "un-meta" mech I can think of. It does the big "no no" of mixing ACs and LRMs together. Yet, be it indirect or direct, it can at least continue to fight. Can have good DPS with the Ultras, or they each jam at the same time leaving me stranded... I've had moderate luck with this. By itself pugging, it's a bit random sometimes. In a team (even a small one) it seems to be a good compliment and a useful tool.

Maybe this is anti-meta, but it's certainly not bad. I have 4xLRM5 + 2xAC/5 + 2xSL in my Jager-A, and it's been working BEAUTIFULLY in my Tier 2 pug games.

[Old-dirty B]

Not sure what you actually mean with anti-meta, for me the definition for this would be "unusual or rarely seen mechs / builds that can still be effective or perform well on a somewhat consistent basis".

Considering the above, my anti-meta mech submission would be the Cicada CDA-3C (XL340 + ERPPC + 4x MG)

Edited by B3R3ND, 30 June 2016 - 03:48 AM.

[Bespoke Cheese Cake]

Anti Meta? How about Standard Heat Sinks? I present to you My revised version of the 37 heat sink Banshee

LoserTech: BNC-3S

[The Basilisk]

Since there are multiple instances of meta beeing accepted as such, I'll try to define those before posting my builds. ( No good build bad build IS JUST EFFIN .... wahhhh)
There are reasons for something beeing good or bad and those may infact change tomorrow.

1. Boating and numerous favorably placed Hardpoints: ( Laser vomit / laser only builds, AK only builds, SRM/LRM only builds )
Reason for beeing meta: easy to use and most likely to have a single range/ engagement window to be aware of --> increase of battlefield awareness due to decresed piloting/ gunnery skill required.

Contra meta would be diversified loadout to cover multiple engagement distances and situations.
Most confirmant, contradictory and neutral mechs:
-- pro Meta: Black Knight, Catapult A1, Grasshopper etc.
-- neutral (can be pro and contra): Shadowhawk, Griffin, etc
-- contra Meta: Command Atlas, Highlander, Orion, Zeus like orion, Vidicator can't boat anything, etc


2. (pinpoint) High alpha + fast mech: Self explainatory. Get a single mech out of the match quickly with short, unexpected, hard strikes so he won't damage you or your team.
Highlords of Alphas are Kodiak (92 dmg in 1,3 secs KDK-5 at 408m) Executioner, Black Knight, etc

--Very weak contra would be still high alpha but spreadfire weapons like the quad LBX Mauler.

--Weak contra would be low alpha high dps and shake like the 5 AC5 Mauler.

--Strong contra would be low alpha low movement speed (AC2 Blackjack and AC2 Huchback)


3. Still accepted would be high sustained dps (at least 6,5 or better)

Contra would be low alpha low dps.
Be cautious though since there is more complexity in here than it seems.
If you pack diversified loadout you may also get windows of inefficency and high efficiency within your engagement radius while in theory having high dps and/ or high alpha. ( LRMs + smal Lasers or PPCs and SRM )
That means windows where you are unable to use all weapons you pack.
Either due to minimum or due to maximum range of your weapons.

Contra examples: Hunchback 4G with 3 AC2 and some lasers. Fully elited this mech will barely have the required minimum speed of 70kph and in theory packs enough heatsinks and ammunition to fire everything he has at a range of 300m. Or go up to ranges of +600m with only his high mounted ACs. But with this low speed and armor and this high facetimes you wont be able to do lots of damage in any game due to either not beeing able to move with your team, get into favorable positions for your ACs or getting away from hunting mechs.

One last thing to be considdered:

--Question: Why would things like fast, hardhitting or durable high dps builds suddenly stop to be viable anymore ????

--Answer: Because of the reasons those builds once got to be meta. Someone changed the rules of the game in a way to create a certain optimum.

Boating pulse lasers was a hillarious thing to do when MWO started.
LRMs and AC2s once ruled suppreme.
Then there was the jumpsniping meta era....etc. etc.pp.

What do you think will happen to all those single hardpoint category mechs when the new heat/ energy mechanic comes ?

Edited by The Basilisk, 30 June 2016 - 05:35 AM.

[InspectorG]

WINNER!?!?!?!!?!
Yes, we had the stock prime.

[Kmieciu]

Stock MLX-A:
2MG (half tonne of ammo)
Flamer
2xAMS (3 tonnes lol)
TAG
CAP (not removable BTW)

This mech makes Spider-5V look deadly.

Edited by Kmieciu, 01 July 2016 - 02:50 AM.

[Karmen Baric]

never mind you said not troll

Edited by Karmen Baric, 01 July 2016 - 03:03 AM.

[Vermin]

Well said Basilisk.

[DivBy0]

A bad mech is a bad mech.
A mech who can be good can be Anti-Meta at the same time
A not so good mech can be Meta.

I think a good example is the Kit Fox. I don not find a place for him in the current meta, but with ECM and some ERLL or PPC he is definitivly not a bad mech... but he is Anti-Meta at this time (IMHO).
But Meta change and maybe in a month the same mech can be good and! Meta and the battlefield will be swarmed with Kit Foxes. Time to Nerf it :-)

Avimimus, on 26 June 2016 - 08:04 PM, said:

What mech most violates the current meta?
I'd assume a mixture of flamers and LRMs would be promising.
Or maybe just running a stock mech? Or an Inner Sphere light?
Or a scout mech (Active probe, TAG, NARC)? Any other ideas?

Note - The builds should still be efficient (i.e. not a troll build)!

We should only be discussing legitimate builds that are mistreated by the current meta.

[Mazzyplz]

Tesunie, on 28 June 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

Basically... almost all of my builds.

Hunchback 4J (and 4SP): Brings LRMs, without boating them. Has enough close range punch to still be a threat. By Meta, doesn't focus enough on a single role. Not enough ammo for LRM spam. Not enough cooling/close range for brawling. Meta would say replace LRMs with SRMs.

Atlas 7S: Has an LBx10. Enough probably said there. Then, it also carries two LLs, which diversifies the build into a more mixed build. Once again, probably considered too slow, and not focused enough. (Yet can melt another assault in 3-4 volleys up close.)

Stalker 3F: I've been told it's like I "mashed a Jenner and a Catapult together". Another mixed build, which doesn't focus "enough" in a single role. Either it "isn't boating enough LRMs" or "a Jenner can have the same close range punch you've got". Has worked very well for me though.

Jagermech 6A: Probably my most "un-meta" mech I can think of. It does the big "no no" of mixing ACs and LRMs together. Yet, be it indirect or direct, it can at least continue to fight. Can have good DPS with the Ultras, or they each jam at the same time leaving me stranded... I've had moderate luck with this. By itself pugging, it's a bit random sometimes. In a team (even a small one) it seems to be a good compliment and a useful tool.

Oh... I could post so many other "non-meta" mechs that work (for me). So many...

i like your builds tesunie.
mixed builds like these also work best for me.