28 replies to this topic

[TooDumbToQuit]

Hardware wise.

And if I turned my detail down would that help?

I'm running at 37 FPS ATM.

[Vlad Striker]

Turn off anti-aliasing.

[Digital_Angel]

If you saw my response on http://mwomercs.com/...29#entry5295729 then you have a recipe for a system that will do 100+FPS (well my monitor only does 75 but card pumps 100+ out) on a < $500 budget.

Few good youtube videos on decent $300-400 gaming rigs built with AMD chips as well.

My total build was $476 after $45 in mail in rebates on wifi card and power supply back in Feb. Easily handles 100+ FPS

My exact parts list with links to the part on Newegg (although prices fluctuate of course)
Rosewill 700 Watt PS I paid $55 and then had a mail in rebate to make it cheaper, $70 current price no rebate currently
Intel I5-4690K quad core current price $239 should have cooler included
ASUS Z87-A motherboard current price $220
8GB PC12800 1600MHz RAM current price $43
ASUS dual band wifi card current price $17 after rebate i paid $15 after rebate
LITE-ON DVD burner current price $20 I paid $14
Decent case with plenty of ventilation I paid $40, currently $45 3 case fans included

I paid $44 for a decent refurb monitor on Newegg. Model no longer available, but here is a much better gaming monitor for a good price http://www.newegg.co...N82E16824009642 $181 shipped, sale ends tomorrow. Something more comparable to mine could be found much cheaper. With this system the monitor is my bottleneck BY FAR on graphics now. Some of the listings under "see similar" for my monitor are as low as $50 right now on Newegg and the Acer listed at $60 is actually slightly better than mine.

Reused an existing HDD, but $50 will get you a decent HDD for a desktop. I already had keyboard and mice, but cheap if you don't have one already for some reason.
I added 4GB of 1333MHz RAM I had in spare parts as well in addition to the 8GB shown above.

I bought the Motherboard, CPU, and RAM as a package deal. Shop around for the package deals on Newegg or similar sites and you usually save $50-100 from the prices listed above for individual components. Go to either the CPU or motherboard in teh link above and look under the combo tab lower on the screen for what deals they have currently.

Add a 2GB Radeon HD7800 bought used for $80 off craigslist and you have every single component in my system at <$600 current prices (with a one of the $50-60 monitors equivalent to what I use)

Did a newegg search on cards equivalent or better than mine for under $200 for you sorted cheapest to most expensive. A lot of $100-125 cards on that list that would do you just fine brand new. http://www.newegg.co...ICE&PageSize=90 or look for deals on someone else upgrading their system and you can often knock 25-50% off of retail prices on a card as well.

Again screenshot of exact settings I run, has MWO displaying 100+FPS in the screenshot, was higher before bringing up settings. Literally put the parts on my list together, run Win 7 64 bit, run the OC software that comes with that board on auto clocking CPU ratio only (not even trying to OC RAM or mess with voltages or the base clock) and you should be able to match. My monitor is the bottleneck at this point, but if you buy a monitor capable of 100Hz this setup will push it out.

Edited by Digital_Angel, 19 July 2016 - 12:40 PM.

[mailin]

The first thing I'd do is play with your video settings in-game. Also, what is your system currently? My system is easily capable of running the game with most things on high, but I would then be running at a maximum fps of about 30-35. I turned down a fair number of things and not the game runs at 110 minimum, but usually at about 125.

Granted, my monitor only runs at 60hz currently, but I will be upgrading that very soon.

First, as previously mentioned, turn off AA. Next, turn particle details to low. Also, shadows can be a pretty big hit to fps, but I leave those at medium, I believe.

I'll add my settings here as soon as I finish patching.

Okay, here are my settings.

I'm running at 1900x1200 in full window on DX11.

Motion Blur, V-Sync and AA are off.

Damage glow is on.

Post Processsing is LOW,

Effects, Object Detail, Particles, Shading, Shadows and Envirnment are all set to medium.

Texturing is set High.


What I did was play with my settings until I was comfortable with the results. Some things look really cool if they are set higher, but I don't think they are worth the trade off.

Good luck.

Edited by mailin, 19 July 2016 - 01:04 PM.

[Koniving]

First: Use F9 to get FPS if you don't already know this or have a way of getting it.

Now hit: Right shift + F11.

You're gonna go up by 10-13 FPS usually. Sometimes gain up to 20 FPS.

Note: You're also gonna play like this.

In other words: No HUD.

The HUD is a horrendous offender in terms of frame-rate, due to a barbaric scaleform script that is about as bad for gaming as Windows 8 was for its user base.

[Digital_Angel]

Even just setting the game to "very high" instead of fooling with any custom settings and I still keep better that the 75FPS my monitor can put out anyway. That 108 FPS in the screenshot also has Steam and TS, and possible Chrome, as well as things like AVG running in the background.

My old laptop's only hope of only even hitting 40FPS was turning off antivirus and anything else beyond the OS and the game while I ran MWO and forget about anything beyond in game VOIP running.

Edited by Digital_Angel, 19 July 2016 - 01:34 PM.

[Digital_Angel]

mailin, on 19 July 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

The first thing I'd do is play with your video settings in-game. Also, what is your system currently? My system is easily capable of running the game with most things on high, but I would then be running at a maximum fps of about 30-35. I turned down a fair number of things and not the game runs at 110 minimum, but usually at about 125.

Granted, my monitor only runs at 60hz currently, but I will be upgrading that very soon.

First, as previously mentioned, turn off AA. Next, turn particle details to low. Also, shadows can be a pretty big hit to fps, but I leave those at medium, I believe.

I'll add my settings here as soon as I finish patching.

^^ Good info

Also if you want to understand why I run many of the setting the way I do on my rig, Kanajashi has an excellent tutorial on MWO video settings including which settings really hit your machine hard and which ones you can see the biggest differences in.

Edited by Digital_Angel, 19 July 2016 - 01:27 PM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

I really really wish I had known or cared about the better Acer monitor before I bought this one. Mine would have to explode before I could justify getting a "better one". It is the 24 inch Acer with only 60HZ.

When you live on a Disability check of $733 a month you do not replace things that are not broken. And I've already put too much money into this game. This is one of the things that got me off of playing EverQuest, the constant upgrading needed by my PCs. And I'm not a "PC Guy".

I have a Gateway System model FX6860, it is x64 based, has an Intel I7-3770 CPU/3.40GHZ with 12 GBs on Ram.

My Video Card is a GeForce GTX 550 Ti.

I reset my game settings to low and now I'm at 60 FPS. Which if I understand correctly, is the highest I will go until I upgrade my monitor. So an upgrade of my video card would be a waste of money.

This is one of many reasons I prefer PS4 games....

Thanks everyone!

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 22 July 2016 - 09:29 AM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Digital_Angel, on 19 July 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

^^ Good info Also if you want to understand why I run many of the setting the way I do on my rig, Kanajashi has an excellent tutorial on MWO video settings including which settings really hit your machine hard and which ones you can see the biggest differences in.

All of the advice given and this video has helped. I can now see things "OK" but at 60FPS instead of 37FPS.

[Digital_Angel]

I thought I was seeing targets moving smoothly at 35-40 FPS on my laptop before I upgraded, but being able to see the movement more smoothly definitely makes aiming easier.

I had to run at low or just above low on my laptop as well. If you can up Object Detail and Environment some without losing too much FPS it helps a lot too. It causes objects to be rendered further from you, especially environmental items (like trees or large rocks that can block a shot). It is a more brutal setting on system resources, but is important as well because having it really low can make you have shots that you think are clear to the target except that you end up hitting a tree or rock in the distance instead. They are less important for short range builds though.

Shadows is another brutal setting resource wise, but setting them just to medium (just enough to turn them on) can help you see opponents around corners by seeing their shadow on the ground. Turning them to (completely off) can help free up resources and help FPS a lot though.

Particles, Post Processing, Anti-Aliasing, and Textures just tend to make things look prettier. They should generally be the last settings you turn up from the absolute bottom when trying to tune for better game performance. In fact, some of the Post Processing effects can actually make it harder to see things when looking towards the sun depending on time of day, so turning that off can make play slightly easier as well as raising FPS.

Even with only a 60 Hz monitor, a better video card would let you turn up some of the settings that actually matter while keeping that 60 FPS, so it would not be a waste of money. Other than video card, your system specs are actually pretty decent for MWO. Your card is actually better than the integrated I had on the laptop. That 3rd gen I7 is the same family and generation as the laptop's CPU, and in many ways roughly equivalent to the 4th gen I5 my desktop runs. Actually since my laptop had the QM version (mobile version, lower power usage for a laptop but less performance), your's is slightly better.

If you can scrape together around $100 for a better video card you would see a world of difference even with all the other parts being the same in your system. Something like a Radeon HD 6950 or 6970 or 7800 series or a GTX 660, 750 or 750ti on the Nvidia side should be fairly cheap but a big step up for you. Checking the 6950, Newegg has a new 1GB version for $70 after rebate or $63 open box for the same model without fooling with a refund. $180 for a 2GB version brand new. That's just a small step down (just barely at all on the 2GB version) from my 2GB 7800.

Actually, checking some of the other cards I mentioned as good value cards that would be a good step up a 2GB GTX750ti (it or the Radeon 7800 series are the the best of the cards I mentioned) is on sale for $80 after rebate on Newegg. That's a steal. The same price I paid for my 7800 used and a slightly better card new with warranty on it. If you can spare that, I'd jump on it. You'd be able to run much better than 60 FPS on Very High settings across the board without having to compromise detail or the game not loading things at distance to have decent FPS, and would still support much better down the road if you upgrade your monitor later on. http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814127784

Edited by Digital_Angel, 19 July 2016 - 07:04 PM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Digital_Angel, on 19 July 2016 - 06:31 PM, said:

I thought I was seeing targets moving smoothly at 35-40 FPS on my laptop before I upgraded, but being able to see the movement more smoothly definitely makes aiming easier. I had to run at low or just above low on my laptop as well. If you can up Object Detail and Environment some without losing too much FPS it helps a lot too. It causes objects to be rendered further from you, especially environmental items (like trees or large rocks that can block a shot). It is a more brutal setting on system resources, but is important as well because having it really low can make you have shots that you think are clear to the target except that you end up hitting a tree or rock in the distance instead. They are less important for short range builds though. Shadows is another brutal setting resource wise, but setting them just to medium (just enough to turn them on) can help you see opponents around corners by seeing their shadow on the ground. Turning them to (completely off) can help free up resources and help FPS a lot though. Particles, Post Processing, Anti-Aliasing, and Textures just tend to make things look prettier. They should generally be the last settings you turn up from the absolute bottom when trying to tune for better game performance. In fact, some of the Post Processing effects can actually make it harder to see things when looking towards the sun depending on time of day, so turning that off can make play slightly easier as well as raising FPS. Even with only a 60 Hz monitor, a better video card would let you turn up some of the settings that actually matter while keeping that 60 FPS, so it would not be a waste of money. Other than video card, your system specs are actually pretty decent for MWO. Your card is actually better than the integrated I had on the laptop. That 3rd gen I7 is the same family and generation as the laptop's CPU, and in many ways roughly equivalent to the 4th gen I5 my desktop runs. Actually since my laptop had the QM version (mobile version, lower power usage for a laptop but less performance), your's is slightly better. If you can scrape together around $100 for a better video card you would see a world of difference even with all the other parts being the same in your system. Something like a Radeon HD 6950 or 6970 or 7800 series or a GTX 660, 750 or 750ti on the Nvidia side should be fairly cheap but a big step up for you. Checking the 6950, Newegg has a new 1GB version for $70 after rebate or $63 open box for the same model without fooling with a refund. $180 for a 2GB version brand new. That's just a small step down (just barely at all on the 2GB version) from my 2GB 7800. Actually, checking some of the other cards I mentioned as good value cards that would be a good step up a 2GB GTX750ti (it or the Radeon 7800 series are the the best of the cards I mentioned) is on sale for $80 after rebate on Newegg. That's a steal. The same price I paid for my 7800 used and a slightly better card new with warranty on it. If you can spare that, I'd jump on it. You'd be able to run much better than 60 FPS on Very High settings across the board without having to compromise detail or the game not loading things at distance to have decent FPS, and would still support much better down the road if you upgrade your monitor later on. http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814127784

Considering my eyesight, this might be hard to pass up. And I can put in a new sound card myself. I guess mine was ok for it's day and the games I played but not for this.

Chances are I will go for this. I've put more money then that into this game for silly Mechs and this is an upgrade for the PC (I really will feel bad not using a perfectly good video card...E-Waste and all). Do you think the deal with stay till the first of next month? What do you think of the two other versions of the 750 Ti? I've been in the situation where I bought something "good enough" and the game then needs more power later down the road.

And let's say that a video card would not be as "noticeable" as a new monitor.

[TooDumbToQuit]

One reason I want more power is so I can broadcast.

[Digital_Angel]

I was not taking that into account in my recommendations. I was just trying to get you something that would play (and run things like TS or other chat programs in the background) well on a cheap price point while leaving some head room to still take advantage of future monitor upgrades and such without needing to replace the card again.

I know a lot of the recording software for AMD cards is supposed to have a fairly low overhead with them, but I don't actually do any recording or streaming myself to know exactly what kind of hit you take from that. For live broadcast, a few of the streamers that I follow have said before that YouTube's streaming has less overheard than Twitch does just as side comments in some of their videos before.

[Digital_Angel]

LikeUntoGod, on 19 July 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

(I really will feel bad not using a perfectly good video card...E-Waste and all).

You can always keep it as a backup in case of part failure, sell it for a couple bucks on Craigslist or just give it to someone you know who is putting a low end system together for office work or a starter computer for their kid. I got rid of 5 milk crate of parts that way back in 2005 before I moved where I live now, just so I didn't have to move extra boxes.

LikeUntoGod, on 19 July 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

Do you think the deal with stay till the first of next month? What do you think of the two other versions of the 750 Ti? I've been in the situation where I bought something "good enough" and the game then needs more power later down the road.

Looking at those specifically (priced as of today) they come out to the same price after refund, and the 3rd option is clearly better performance than the 2nd. You can always go back to the link for search criteria across all of Newegg that I posted in an earlier post and see what the best value is at the time when you have the $ to pull the trigger.

[ImperialKnight]

LikeUntoGod, on 19 July 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

Hardware wise.

And if I turned my detail down would that help?

I'm running at 37 FPS ATM.

TURN OFF EVERYTHING!!!

[Dauphni]

I have a bit of a franken-pc right now, and it seems a good cpu is actually worth more than a good gpu. I recently upgraded to an i5-6500 while keeping my old GTX460, and I'm getting about 80-100 fps now. I really didn't expect my fps to be so high given how old my graphics card is.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Digital_Angel, on 20 July 2016 - 10:26 AM, said:

You can always keep it as a backup in case of part failure, sell it for a couple bucks on Craigslist or just give it to someone you know who is putting a low end system together for office work or a starter computer for their kid. I got rid of 5 milk crate of parts that way back in 2005 before I moved where I live now, just so I didn't have to move extra boxes. Looking at those specifically (priced as of today) they come out to the same price after refund, and the 3rd option is clearly better performance than the 2nd. You can always go back to the link for search criteria across all of Newegg that I posted in an earlier post and see what the best value is at the time when you have the $ to pull the trigger.

Thanks so much. And I need to ask, does the 3rd one need any other power supply? I can do a basic video card install but beyond that...uh....I used to do this stuff but because of some problems, my brain just does not work well anymore. I'm looking hard at the 3rd option. Thanks again!

Dauphni, on 22 July 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

I have a bit of a franken-pc right now, and it seems a good cpu is actually worth more than a good gpu. I recently upgraded to an i5-6500 while keeping my old GTX460, and I'm getting about 80-100 fps now. I really didn't expect my fps to be so high given how old my graphics card is.

I do not even know what CPU I would look for as an upgrade. I know from experience that PC repair shops, like most places, will try to push and sell you what they have in stock, not what is maybe the best option.

A new CPU seems to run about $300 plus so the Video card will come first. Then maybe a better monitor or the CPU next year. I do not know anything about this Motherboard and what upgrades it will take. Any input would be wonderful

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 22 July 2016 - 07:17 AM.

[ImperialKnight]

if you want to play MWO at 80+ FPS, AND do streams, you pretty much have to get an i7-6600K or better. maybe an X99 i7-6800K, depending on how much you're willing to spend.

GPU is not very important, a mainstream card would do just fine for MWO, depending on how much you're willing to spend
$150: GTX 960
$200: RX480 4GB
$250: RX480 8GB or GTX 1060 6GB

I'd go for the RX480 or GTX1060 at this point for the price-performance ratio

even then, you're going to have to turn a lot of settings to medium/high to hit 80+FPS consistently. especially after the latest patch, which tanked the graphics performance.

I'm using an i5-6600K with GTX1070 with only objective details and environment set to very high, the rest are high with Shadows medium. it can barely hold the game consistently above 60FPS. that shows you how ridiculously bad the optimisation this game has in terms of graphics.

[Digital_Angel]

LikeUntoGod, on 22 July 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

Thanks so much. And I need to ask, does the 3rd one need any other power supply? I can do a basic video card install but beyond that...uh....I used to do this stuff but because of some problems, my brain just does not work well anymore. I'm looking hard at the 3rd option. Thanks again!



I do not even know what CPU I would look for as an upgrade. I know from experience that PC repair shops, like most places, will try to push and sell you what they have in stock, not what is maybe the best option.

A new CPU seems to run about $300 plus so the Video card will come first. Then maybe a better monitor or the CPU next year. I do not know anything about this Motherboard and what upgrades it will take. Any input would be wonderful

The GTX 750ti specs on the link do not say that it has a connector to the PS. It looks like it is pulling all power through the MBD, but it does recommend at least a 400W power supply. Honestly 400W isn't all that big by today's standards. If you need to double check, there should be a sticker on the side of the power supply; just pop open the case and double check.

My 7800 has a 6pin connector direct to the power supply as well as pulling some across the PCI slot. Actually a little surprised that the GTX 750ti on the link doesn't on any of those 3 versions. That will be one thing to look out for. Make sure your power supply has connectors available and a high enough wattage rating to handle what you upgrade to. My setup above could have gotten away with a 500-550W supply, but I got the 700 for safety's sake. I've put upgrades in a system that the PS couldn't handle before. In newer systems the cards will usually slow themselves down to work with the power available, but older systems (and sometimes still on new components) will end up rebooting the entire system if you try to push past what your PS can handle. Basically the PS can't keep 12V at the draw it is getting and when the voltage drops momentarily causing the same effect as hitting the reset button on the case. Most of your major brands like Gateway are bad about only putting enough power supply to handle what they sell it with, since they really never expect you to upgrade much instead of just buying another rig every few years.


CPU-wise, that 3770 is already basically the very top of the 3rd gen Core processors. Your CPU isn't the problem with your box, the video card is. Going to a 4th 5th or 6th gen model would require a new motherboard because the CPU socket changed. Also 4th, 5th, and 6th en all use different sockets as well, so can't upgrade between them on the same board either. Realistically, even streaming, that 3770 is still a pretty good CPU, even for most gaming, if you have a video card that will do the job . The 5th and 6th gen CPUs upgrade memory from DDR3 to DDR4, but DDR3 1600 vs DDR4 is fairly small difference in every benchmark I've ever seen unless you are trying to overclock things. Basically, you can't get any real CPU upgrade without changing out half of your PC, and honestly the CPU is not what is holding you up. $50 will get you a good 600-700W PS if yours won't handle it, but that may push you back on being able to afford a newer card budget wise. I've found that Nvidia usually has lower power requirements than AMD cards.

Depending on what resolution you run, dropping resolution on my laptop only 1 notch within MWO usually netted me an extra 5-6 FPS as well as a free way to up FPS by tweaking settings until you are ready to upgrade.

knightsljx, on 22 July 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:

if you want to play MWO at 80+ FPS, AND do streams, you pretty much have to get an i7-6600K or better. maybe an X99 i7-6800K, depending on how much you're willing to spend.

GPU is not very important, a mainstream card would do just fine for MWO, depending on how much you're willing to spend
$150: GTX 960
$200: RX480 4GB
$250: RX480 8GB or GTX 1060 6GB

I'd go for the RX480 or GTX1060 at this point for the price-performance ratio

even then, you're going to have to turn a lot of settings to medium/high to hit 80+FPS consistently. especially after the latest patch, which tanked the graphics performance.

I'm using an i5-6600K with GTX1070 with only objective details and environment set to very high, the rest are high with Shadows medium. it can barely hold the game consistently above 60FPS. that shows you how ridiculously bad the optimization this game has in terms of graphics.

You are doing something wrong then, or trying to run a pretty high resolution on your rig. On the specs I've listed above (4th gen I5 4690K with only mild OC, 2GB Radeon HD 7800) MWO give me no issues at all with what should be a far inferior system to what you say you are running. I've also posted the exact setting I run under above. If my monitor would handle a higher resolution would hit my setup a good bit on FPS at those settings, but 1440x900 with most settings on high to very high at 100+ FPS is pretty good in my book. I will say that my rig only gets around 60-65 in the hangar for some reason. The graphics load on that screen seems to be horrible for everyone I've seen, but in drops 120-135 FPS range is my average depending on the map and time of day.

Your card might also be under clocking itself if it is power starved by your PS as well.

Edited by Digital_Angel, 22 July 2016 - 09:49 AM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Wow, my mind is spinning, lol.

OK, first check my power supply (I wish it was in system info but no biggie).

The CPU idea was scaring me for just the reasons you gave, a new motherboard would be needed.

OK, 400W Power supplies are cheap, and used bigger ones are not too bad. Stupid question here. How do I know if another/bigger one will fit?

I'm about ready to order, I'll take the side off of my PC tonight.

Playing EverQuest was hard on my PCs. I used to keep the side doors off and I had extra fans blowing on them. They would get HOT, lol.

You have been a HUGE help DA!

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 22 July 2016 - 09:56 AM.