24 replies to this topic

[Saxifrage]

So I've been playing for maybe three months, and I feel like I'm missing something. I'm having trouble improving my performance. I've a suspicion it's down to me not identifying either the tactics being used by the enemy or my team, or a simple ignorance of the pacing and correct times to push, fall back, etc.

My raw piloting skills have improved, I can navigate well enough, and my aim is better than it was. Some in-game advice lead me to metamechs and that was very helpful. However, the pace still seems odd to me. It's usually very slow until it isn't, and then it very much isn't. My question is, how can I more accurately identify the stages of the match, so that I can act more appropriately at the given time?

I've read/watched several tutorials, but I'm hoping that somebody can give me a more specific answer than they are able to provide.

Thanks in advance.

[Rogue Jedi]

unfortunately I have yet to fogure this out myself, if I am playing in an organised group that is a lot easier but playing in a solo queue Pick Up Group it is near impossible to predict the flow of the match, sometimes the enemy will charge you realy early in the match, leaving your team out of position and in serious trouble, other times a few Mechs will keep poking out while the rest of the team moves to flank
keep checking your minimap and keep an eye on the top of the HUD were you will get indications of enemy activity, and if you notice something let the team know.

in general the side which takes the initiative has a huge advantage because they are forcing the enemy to react to them.

the most important things to improve situational awareness are:

press R, if you target an enemy you can see his loadout and perhaps more importantly your allies can see where it is and target it weather or not they have line of sight, you should have something targeted whenever possible

communicate, some people will have VOIP and text chat disabled but in a PUG even having 2-3 people working together on your team is a massive advantage

[Saxifrage]

Sounds like I've just got more to learn than I realized, frankly. May just be a case of needing more battles under my belt. Thanks for the encouragement.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

It all comes down to information.
Information takes several forms.
The most basic form is visual, be it from what you can physically see through your cockpit or what is coming up via sensors. That includes both friendly and enemy location and movement, incomming and outgoimg weapons fire, and game condition status (ie- is the base getting capped?).

The most advanced and valuable form of information is verbal communication.

[SpiralFace]

You pick it up as you start to learn the in's and outs of maps and mechs.

Maps tend to play out in very similar ways in Quick play. So studying how the general flow of the map works across a match will give you an idea of what to look for when you see mechs pushing in certain directions.

From there, its about learning what mechs are capable of doing and recognizing when something fishy is going on. Is that Shadow hawk swinging wide of your position? He's probably trying to establish a flanking position. You need to have lights and mediums respond.

You see the minimap with your mechs being encircled by the enemy, you need to push a single direction IMMEDIATELY and break out of their concave before they have you in a full surround.

Also, if you haven't seen the intro tactics comics, its highly recommended if you want to make yourself more map aware. As recognizing what works and why will be the biggest step in reading the data as you get it in the minimap.

[mailin]

It really depends on which mech you are piloting. What to do in a light with ECM is a LOT different than what heavies and assaults should be doing.

Assuming you're in a non-light, the first rules tend to be pretty much the same: always stay with your team, lock your current target, and fire on what your team mates are firing on unless they are out of range or there is a different target closer to you.

Staying with your team mates is where the minimap comes in handy. You never want to be alone. Keep your team mates closer because there is safety in numbers.

You always want to lock your current target (hopefully before you shoot). By looking at the enemy paper doll in the top right corner of your HUD you can see his weapons and where he is damaged, if at all. You always want to try to engage the enemy in a way that doesn't play into their strengths. In other words, you want to engage snipers from up close and brawlers from a distance.

You always want to fire on the same mech as your team mates because it is a lot easier to take a single enemy down if several mechs are all shooting it at the same time. (This is one area where being on comms and listening to comms can really help. Just call the target and his location and tell everyone to focus their fire on him. When he drops, lather, rinse, repeat.


If you pilot lights however, you can somewhat throw one of the above away. Lights don't have to stay with their team, but it might be a good idea if they do. It's great fun to pilot a light and watch the enemy get so focused on you that they forget about shooting mechs that weigh three or four times as much as you.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Saxifrage, on 28 July 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

Sounds like I've just got more to learn than I realized, frankly. May just be a case of needing more battles under my belt. Thanks for the encouragement.

Speak up in the match!

Part of the problem is that there often is no plan.

[mailin]

LikeUntoGod, on 28 July 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

Speak up in the match!

Part of the problem is that there often is no plan.

In skirmish mode the general plan that I say is, "okay, this is skirmish mode. This means we don't have a base to worry about or points to capture, so let's just ball up around our heavies and assaults and keep moving forward. Lock the enemy as soon as you see him and if he's in range everybody fire on him."

I will sometimes have to remind my team to "Keep moving forward people. It's okay to get your paint scratched."

Sometimes it works beautifully, and sometimes not so much. But, it's better than nothing.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

The match starts out in 3 different ways.

1) the most common is both teams will converge towards the center and take up defensive possitions and trade shots with each other until one of the two teams has an advantage. Then the team with the numerical advantage will snow ball into the enemy for a decisive victory.

2) another common situation is both teams will converge towards the center of the map and rotate around trying to eat up the opposing teams stragglers... This parasitic event will continue until one of the teams has more frustrated members then advocates of the nascar, in which chaos will ensue until one of the teams is victorious...

3) one team rushes to a location and collides with the opponent before they can defensivelly setup. The victory for this match is usually decided shortly after.

[Aerei]

Pugs are notoriously disorganized, and players in general are not good at listening unless a particularly strong personality is present. As such, players often revert to habit. "Nascaring" as the rotation Alex Kerensky mentioned, has become very common. Ironically, this very "tactic" often produces stragglers in the form of assault mechs, or players not watching the map often enough. If they aren't nascaring, they'll often poke from cover to try and trade shots. Normally this devolves into a brawl in the following ways:

1) A team stops nascaring, turns around, and engages.

2) Multiple fast mechs have rushed into the other formation.

3) If one team simply has fewer numbers.

4) If a map is generally too large for the mid range pug meta. Frozen City, I've noticed, has more attempted pushes early as a result.

5) If one team is getting massacred on trades, and the team realizes it.

6) Something unexpected happens. Pugs are slow to adapt, so they'll either scream until they get help, or at left to die.

7) Big one here. If very few mechs are shooting at your team, they will advance at will.

Of course, some groups are inherently more aggressive than others, and again, as pugs are disorganized and inconsistent, so pushes can come suddenly, and from seemingly from nowhere without a lick of sense. The mini map can sort of help here, as can your eyes. While this isn't always the case--as a rule of thumb in my experience, if you see a heavy mech or an assault mech advancing towards you, chances are they're trying to advance towards your position.

The Seismic Sensor Module, and Advanced Seismic, in particular, can also give you warning if someone is getting close to you.

[Ruhkil]

I would reccomend equiping UAVS and not being so hard on yourself. as others have said pugs are so disorganized and people play very timidly or very aggressively and there is very little in between. try to learn the maps and speak up a bit something like "enemy mech in b4" or something the specific reason i think UAVS are a good idea is that they essentially allow you to wallhack this game is all about chokepoints and getting in and out of cover fast dropping a uav so you can see if it is just one mech around a blind corner or 5 mechs is very important. In addition most people in pugs sort of mill around and wait for others to engage dropping a UAV to get your teammates target data often leads to support from your lrm boats and brawlers converging on a single location since they can see the general parameters they are walking into. A good UAV can really energize the teams efforts and earn you some nice XP to level your mechs skills.

[InspectorG]

Saxifrage, on 28 July 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

Thanks in advance.

Always bee looking at the Radar. Most newbs ignore this. You have to get a feel for the 'flow' of a Drop. group drops will be different because of the communication.

But in Solo there are 4 main things that can happen:

1. Rush to center map.

2. Rush to the right...this can become a NASCAR.

3. Camp a bad area or choke point...yeah dont do this.

4. Murderball and push into the enemy and push a flank like an amoeba.


Number 1 is pretty typical and hopefully leads to #4.

Number 2 is when too many scrubs blindly follow a fast light. Now, light pilots have the right to 'wolfpack' should they want and its a good idea to let them but pace yourself accordingly and ask for help when needed but they may figure they can ignore you and still win if the enemy is bad enough.
This devolves into a toilette-swirl around the center map. OR, if one team has a brain, the team 'counter turns' back counter-clockwise and brings its firepower onto the enemy before their fatmechs can catch up but before their lights can run off. Takes a good timing and, of course, needs teammates on the same page.

Number 3 happens wen too many scrublets get too scared to push or even peek. Now there is a time to peek and a time not to.
But if your team's collective DPS drops just count on the enemy surrounding you, getting the choice firing lanes, and will murder you all with ease.
This my be a good time to YOLO rush and try to get the ball moving, or if you are in a light, run off to try to kill a strangler on the red team.

Number 4 is the best usual condition sans any leadership or deep understanding of MWO between more than 4 teammates.


Once you understand those 4, focus on your positioning and getting angles and free trades on enemies out of position or enemies who over/under-commit.

[mailin]

There are really two disastrous "tactics" that I see happening over and over again in pugs. The first is Nascaring, which is described above, and the other is camping, which is mentioned, but not fully discussed.

The problem with moving to an area, whether it is a good position to be in or not, is that if the team stops and trades shots with the enemy you give the enemy the initiative.

What then happens one side will eventually push into the other side. If the enemy comes at you one or two mechs at a time it's not a problem. But, if the enemy comes at your team in force very often some of your team mates will retreat in the hopes of finding a better or different place to trade shots from. You never want to retreat in this case, especially if you are in an assault.

On the other hand, if both teams are camping and your forces gather for an all out push on the enemy, very likely some of their mechs will break away. This is exactly the kind of numerical advantage that you want to see. This is especially true if some of the mechs that break away are supposed to be support for the assaults. But this only ends in a victory if the entire team pushes at the same time, focuses all of their fire on the fewest number of mechs and does not stop the push. When you push, your team needs to understand that they will take fire and some will die. They need to let go of their egos, stop thinking about their KDRs, and maybe take one for the team.

Generally speaking the most organized AND aggressive team wins.

Edited by mailin, 28 July 2016 - 11:54 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Saxifrage, on 28 July 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

My question is, how can I more accurately identify the stages of the match, so that I can act more appropriately at the given time?

Well, this might be an unorthodox suggestion ...

How about dictating your own pace? Be aggressive, create your own stages, don't think whats appropriate, think on what you want to do and can do to ruin your opponents day and win. Lead by example, lead using VoIP. You'll make mistakes, you'll die horribly and you'll be bashed but you'll learn, you'll become confident, eventually skilled.

This is warfare. Controlled aggression trumps passive strategies.

Find a mech that suits you the most, allows such aggressive harassment and easy repositioning. From there you can go towards quick decisions (lights) or planning in advance (assaults) whichever you feel like works better for you.

[Audacious Aubergine]

PhoenixFire55, on 29 July 2016 - 01:03 AM, said:

Well, this might be an unorthodox suggestion ...

How about dictating your own pace? Be aggressive, create your own stages, don't think whats appropriate, think on what you want to do and can do to ruin your opponents day and win. Lead by example, lead using VoIP. You'll make mistakes, you'll die horribly and you'll be bashed but you'll learn, you'll become confident, eventually skilled.

This is warfare. Controlled aggression trumps passive strategies.

Find a mech that suits you the most, allows such aggressive harassment and easy repositioning. From there you can go towards quick decisions (lights) or planning in advance (assaults) whichever you feel like works better for you.

I concur with this. As I tend to say to myself (mostly when I'm facepalming at my team), "Victory favours the bold". Having said that, victory does NOT favour the suicidal, and 3/4 of the time that's what it seems more like

Edited by Audacious Aubergine, 29 July 2016 - 04:48 AM.

[Chryckan]

Audacious Aubergine, on 29 July 2016 - 04:47 AM, said:

I concur with this. As I tend to say to myself (mostly when I'm facepalming at my team), "Victory favours the bold". Having said that, victory does NOT favour the suicidal, and 3/4 of the time that's what it seems more like

It does if you're on the other team.

[mailin]

I am all for patience, but not at the length of the absurd. Be patient in gathering in one spot because assaults are slow. But, if you start to think that you are waiting in one spot for too long, you probably are waiting in one spot for too long. The problem is, what to do about it.

If your team already has several people on comms, the solution can be pretty easy to work out. Sometimes it's a good idea to stay put, others it's a good idea to push. It is largely map and terrain dependent.

I tend to favor movement rather than static sniping. I like to take the initiative, rather than let the enemy decide where to close.

[justcallme A S H]

As others have said - Minimap.

Pay attention to what you see, where the mechs are moving.

Also, ADV seismic sensor. the best module you can fit. Radar Derps is also worth it. Knowing if mechs are around a corner and coming at you, means you can effectively avoid a push or know there is a single mech to go and pick off easily.

Just be wary of the "Nascar" situation on a few maps at the moment. NFI why, but everyone wants to run around in circles the past 4-5 weeks, it's worse than normal. This will lead to the team being split up etc.
So ensure you use in game VOIP and if people are spreading too far - get on the comms and tell people to "tighten it back up" etc. That'll also help.

[BWS2K]

A lot of great advice here. I, too, just started a few months back. My life is a series of stories where I realize after-the-fact that I have made the most difficult choice possible. In keeping with that theme (unwittingly) I bought a Mist Lynx and have used it almost exclusively since. Some folks say Lights aren't for new players but I can't see it working well the other way 'round.

BW's Tip #1): There's only room for one pilot in your seat. Pick a mech, any mech, and then get good with that thing. Who cares what everyone thinks is the best? Unlock those shinies, optimize those hardpoints, hone your abilities. I've been laughed at in matches where I'm the last one standing and I've got a handful of kills in my belt. Find what you like, get good with it, and earn that 'GG'.

BW's Tip #2): Patience is a virtue, even if you're driving a giant robot. The opening seconds drag on into minutes and you're wanting to let loose with those ballistics... don't. Stay with your buddies. Wait for it. You'll develop a Spidey-Sense after a while and you'll just know when it's time to go on the offensive. I rarely, if ever, fire any serious shots before the two-minute mark. That's when the rookies are out there flexing muscles and the veterans are scoping the field - why would I want to show them my cards? Let the newbs handle the newbs. You run in after the pawns, not before.

BW's Tip #3): Tactics are for tacticians. If #1 and #2 are in full effect, then you'll start to pick up on the lingo the veterans are using to win the day. Focusing fire (concentrating on just one mech even when three others are shooting your face) is hard but rarely fails to work well. Calling targets, or literally just saying/typing "I think I saw something red around E4", always helps your team and it'll get you in the right frame of mind - don't react by running off on your own, act by working as part of a team. Learning maps and weapons and all that will come eventually, if you want it to, you just have to be willing to give up some of the individual glory. It's totally worth it.

Happy Gaming!

Edited by BWS2K, 29 July 2016 - 09:06 AM.

[Spetulhu]

A lot of good advice already, and not much a middling mechwarrior like me could add. Except ofc the maps...

In quick play (or faction play if you try) there's only so many different maps. Once you learn the maps, as in where can you go, will they come here and is this a good place to be you will be so much better off. There's usually only a few places on a map where random (or premade) guys choose to fight, and once you know those you can steer clear of the worst killing zones and maybe also tell your team to pull left of the "laser light valley".