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Next Quirk Pass Should Buff Weak Mechs


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#1 Aerei

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 07:17 AM

Okay so I don't know about anyone else on IS (or in the very rare case, clan side), but quirk rebalance is becoming a bit of a matter of dread for me--especially given this last patch when some mediocre mechs (Marauder, Centurion) really got nerfed unnecessarily, and some mechs (like the Blackjack 1X) went from viable to mediocrity.

More to the point, there are quite a few chassis that flat out never see play, whether its Faction War or PGI's tournament (which, while using May patch, few if any mechs saw a positive quirk buff, so the point remains). Mechs like the Centurion, Vindicator, Viper, Phoenix Hawk, Ice Ferret, and Kintaro, just to name a few medium mechs, see very little play. If quirks, and quirk adjustments are meant to level the playing field, then I think it's time for the underdogs to get a little love.

And yeah, cynicism "PGI this, promise this, do that, blah blah". I think there's enough of that on the boards as is. What I'm curious to see is how many people agree with this statement.

So yeah, who thinks that bottom mechs need to start pushing their way up now? What mechs come to mind?

#2 Metus regem

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 07:23 AM

.... So you mean it should go back to what it was originally meant to do?

The Blackjack should never have been given the quirks that made it as tough as heavy to low assault mech in the first place, that was just silly on PGI's part. Just like when they gave the Thunderbolt the mind boggling 50% heat reduction to ERPPCs as well as giving them 50%+ speed to PPC's, that mech was never known in lore as a PPC boat, it was known to be tough as nails, and should've been quriked to be tough as nails.

I've always been a firm believer that quirks need to support the stock load out, stock load out needs to support the lore, and lore needs to support the stock load out and the quirks. The first mech where I feel PGI got it right for how quirks should be used in the Cyclops with the ability to boost your teams fighting ability passively.

#3 mogs01gt

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 07:28 AM

View PostAerei, on 29 July 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

Okay so I don't know about anyone else on IS (or in the very rare case, clan side), but quirk rebalance is becoming a bit of a matter of dread for me--especially given this last patch when some mediocre mechs (Marauder, Centurion) really got nerfed unnecessarily, and some mechs (like the Blackjack 1X) went from viable to mediocrity.
More to the point, there are quite a few chassis that flat out never see play, whether its Faction War or PGI's tournament (which, while using May patch, few if any mechs saw a positive quirk buff, so the point remains). Mechs like the Centurion, Vindicator, Viper, Phoenix Hawk, Ice Ferret, and Kintaro, just to name a few medium mechs, see very little play. If quirks, and quirk adjustments are meant to level the playing field, then I think it's time for the underdogs to get a little love.
And yeah, cynicism "PGI this, promise this, do that, blah blah". I think there's enough of that on the boards as is. What I'm curious to see is how many people agree with this statement.
So yeah, who thinks that bottom mechs need to start pushing their way up now? What mechs come to mind?

wait sec, you want to buff Cents....yes pls ;P

#4 Metus regem

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 07:30 AM

View Postmogs01gt, on 29 July 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

wait sec, you want to buff Cents....yes pls ;P



I'm all for that, I love my Centurions, even in their current state, they are more than playable. That being said, they are not top shelf mediums, but they are far from bad....

#5 mogs01gt

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 07:31 AM

View PostMetus regem, on 29 July 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

I'm all for that, I love my Centurions, even in their current state, they are more than playable. That being said, they are not top shelf mediums, but they are far from bad....

When Im in them they are top shelf ;)...Sadly they are too map dependent.

#6 Metus regem

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 07:35 AM

View Postmogs01gt, on 29 July 2016 - 07:31 AM, said:

When Im in them they are top shelf Posted Image...Sadly they are too map dependent.



Very true, if one is good in a Centurion they are good in most mechs, but that being said things like the Storm Crow, Hunchback (IIC & IS) and Griffin are all seen as 'better' than the Centurion... still I like my Centurions, good solid mechs that are really a force multiplier, jack of all trades, master of none.

#7 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 07:41 AM

View PostMetus regem, on 29 July 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

The Blackjack should never have been given the quirks that made it as tough as heavy to low assault mech in the first place, that was just silly on PGI's part. Just like when they gave the Thunderbolt the mind boggling 50% heat reduction to ERPPCs as well as giving them 50%+ speed to PPC's, that mech was never known in lore as a PPC boat, it was known to be tough as nails, and should've been quriked to be tough as nails.

I'm pretty sure you are putting words in his mouth, while the Blackjack got structure nerfs, it got no buffs in return supportive of stock or otherwise, which is the problem.

That said, quirks that support stock are silly in quite a few cases, like the DGN-5N's UAC5 quirks when it can only mount one or the Battlemasters that all have relatively the same quirks because the stock configs are so similar.

#8 Aerei

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 08:42 AM

View PostMetus regem, on 29 July 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

The Blackjack should never have been given the quirks that made it as tough as heavy to low assault mech in the first place, that was just silly on PGI's part.


I fully agree, the first nerf was needed; having more structure points than a Grasshopper was just stupid. Hell, the second nerf along with the rescale was good, and I thought they had finally balanced the Blackjack as a good, viable mech, but not stupid OP. Then it was nerfed again, to where mechs with ballistic loadouts have better energy quirks. This brings me to a concern I have with any mech that gets good, or perhaps with today's quirks, are chosen by default. PGI doesn't wait to see how their latest quirk adjustments play out.

But perhaps I should qualify my concern in this regard a little more. When there is a mech that's really good, PGI eventually nerfs it, and so they should! However, in the next patch or two, they'll nerf that same mech again, and then again, each month. In my mind, thirty days is not usually enough time for a metagame to settle down and actually demonstrate the consequences of a buff or nerf, unless the buff or nerf involved a sledgehammer.

To put it shortly: If you make too many changes in a short period of time, you can't identify which changes achieved the desired result in the first place.

Edited by Aerei, 29 July 2016 - 08:55 AM.


#9 Davers

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 09:32 AM

I thought everyone wanted increased TTK? You won't get that by buffing more mechs. Better to nerf the ones who are outperforming the others.

#10 Moldur

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 10:05 AM

Next quirk pass should make the game better.

hahahaha, get it? Because it won't. It'll make a stupid ******* side-grade change with a zero-net-gain of people that like and dislike the new balance as opposed to the balance at some other point in the game's lifetime. Way to go PGI, putting time and effort into appeasing these idiots.

#11 Aerei

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 10:24 AM

View PostMoldur, on 29 July 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

Next quirk pass should make the game better.

hahahaha, get it? Because it won't. It'll make a stupid ******* side-grade change with a zero-net-gain of people that like and dislike the new balance as opposed to the balance at some other point in the game's lifetime. Way to go PGI, putting time and effort into appeasing these idiots.


Your eloquent and constructive argument truly hits home the points you wish to make. Good job.

#12 Baulven

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 01:48 PM

But if you start giving quirks to under performers the dartboard of Destiny is going to get sad and lonely. You wouldn't want the dartboard to be sad would you.

#13 Airu

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 01:52 PM

sdr 5v it must happen, give me 200% accel/decel, that is the only thing that mech is for anyway

#14 FupDup

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 02:01 PM

View PostDavers, on 29 July 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

I thought everyone wanted increased TTK? You won't get that by buffing more mechs. Better to nerf the ones who are outperforming the others.

Nerfing structure and agility does not increase TTK. It has the opposite effect, really.

#15 Felicitatem Parco

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 02:15 PM

Am I the only one who thinks Nerfing good Mechs is not a bad thing?

Look, if your favorite Mech got nerfed, and it was your favorite because you found it to be performing very, very well... then... well... there's a distinct chance that it wasn't just your skill that kept you on top of the charts. If it was skill, then you should have been topping charts with other mechs, too.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 29 July 2016 - 02:16 PM.


#16 Deathlike

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 02:36 PM

Guys...

This thread title reads differently...

What Our Balance Overlord Actually Read said:

Next Quirk Pass Will Add More Nerfbat


#17 Voq

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 08:03 PM


@Prosperity - I don't think most people have a problem with real balancing (incl. nerfing excelling mechs), it's the ugly haphazard way it's done. You have many many high performing mechs left entirely alone, while random mediocre ones get hit...

Centurion is perfectly adequate, but is it really outperforming EBJs, Crows, Griffin's, etc? (Chosen randomly as understood decent mechs). If it isn't, why was it chosen for nerfing?

It ends up feeling non-sensical, targeted, or something of the kind.

But really the problem is always the same: no communication. Many MMOs have outlined rationale behind balance changes. We really don't seem to get that here.

#18 Aerei

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 08:21 PM

View PostProsperity Park, on 29 July 2016 - 02:15 PM, said:

Am I the only one who thinks Nerfing good Mechs is not a bad thing?

Look, if your favorite Mech got nerfed, and it was your favorite because you found it to be performing very, very well... then... well... there's a distinct chance that it wasn't just your skill that kept you on top of the charts. If it was skill, then you should have been topping charts with other mechs, too.


As a matter of fact, my favorite mech has been untouched by recent quirk passes. I swear some people aren't reading into this enough. There's a difference between nerfing a mech that's making a splash on the metagame, and nerfing a mech that, quite frankly, isn't seeing play at the time.

Voq nailed my concern. Sometimes it feels like PGI is using a dartboard. I could fully understand the reasoning for nerfs in May and June patches, regardless of whether I liked them or not. However, the ones in this month's patch had almost no logic to them. I mean how many people complained about the Marauder being too nimble?

Edited by Aerei, 29 July 2016 - 08:21 PM.


#19 Chuck Jager

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 09:45 PM

Short range game play in pugs is the worst unless your in a light and into farming DCs and chasing newbs off the back.

I can take a 4erll Hbringer into pugs and still be the first into combat on the front line

#20 A Shoddy Rental Mech

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 10:00 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 29 July 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

Guys...

This thread title reads differently...



I'm all for more Nerf Bat :)

Edited by The Nerf Bat, 29 July 2016 - 10:01 PM.






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