35 replies to this topic

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 23 August 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

I will sum up my counter argument to the science portion here-

You keep claiming that the evidence says "the evolution from ape to man was done very quickly" however you have yet to source a single claim to prove that. And as the age of **** Erectus is like 2 million years or so, it very much contradicts your claims. Just look up the ages of the transitional fossils we have of apes to humans, and you will find just how blatantly wrong you are.

Quoting wikipedia is the absolute worst thing ever. Wikipedia is banned from any university or scientific paper because it is so error filled because it is the wiki anyone can edit. If your backing evidence is wikipedia then I need not ever even debate you.

Unless you can find a source that says cro magnon man did not emerge fairly recently, every article, paper and source I have ever seen says the evolution of cro magnon man was like an explosion in comparison to the gradual changes over long periods of time model evolution espouses. :/

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 23 August 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

Also scientists never refuted climate change (well the majority didn't). They are the ones who discovered it actually.

Climate change research clashed with corporate profiteering self interests. This led to climate change research being repressed and a lot of pseudo science claiming climate change is false being funded by the heartland institute and other bodies known for taking large donations from big oil, general motors and those with a self interest in seeing climate change debunked.

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 23 August 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

Also science does have an explanation for the unlikelyhood of the big bang. The fact that we are here means that that unlikelyhood we slipped into and now we are here. However the multiverse is another theory and one that I am actually completely open too.

That's cool.

No one knows all of the facts on the issue & the question is a philosophical one moreso than one involving science imo. It can't be proven one way or the other.

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 23 August 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

Next the finely tuned argument retort-

Blackholes are something that defy the notion of fine tuning in the universe.

That's something I haven't heard before. How does it work?

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 23 August 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

Also if you look at the number of habitable worlds out there by calculations, this universe is NOT finely tuned for life at all. Quite the opposite as the odds are actually quite against us. Also if the multiverse exists then the entire Fine tuning argument goes down in smoke because then we are just one of many universes and just happened to be in the one where the odds played out in our favor.

Next the universe may is more likely not fine tuned at all, because we animals on earth constantly adapted to the universe, more particularly our planet. Meaning that it is not fine tuned at all, because that would imply it was finely tuned for our existence. Which if it was there would be no need for evolution at all.

For more arguments against it:
http://debunkingchri...g-argument.html
https://www.outerpla...tuning-argument
http://www.goodreads...gument-debunked
http://www.strongath...of_fine_tuning/

I'll check those out later.

Fine tuning has very credible support from Stephen Hawking and other astrophysicists.

Its not so much the info that is in dispute, its how the info is interpreted and accounted for.

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 23 August 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

What a piece of propaganda Zeretul. I would never have expected you to spread such an outrageous lie. Should I just bring up how many people religion indoctrinates into its ignorant beliefs? Muslims believing that Muhammad cracked the Moon, Christians being taught evolution is a lie to the place where nearly 48% of the USA population now believes that nonsense!? Christians being taught told by their preachers that being gay is wrong and they crowd and love their leaders like Kent Hovind who said himself that if gays were put to death that America would be a better place!!!!!

You have the balls to tell me that religion gives us free will? No it doesn't. Throughout history there has never been a war in the name atheism. However when you look at the world just take a look at who massacred the most people, because they led their followers to believe it was right: RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. The Crusades, World War II ({Godwin's Law} was Christian and German churches helped him to manipulate followers), Stalin (who made deals with the Russian Orthodox church so they would help him in his genocides), and now we have the war on terrorism and Christian terrorism. All because of religion.

Frankly religion hasn't made anything moral in this world.

Religion says that God loves humanity. And that people are deserving of rights, freedom and the pursuit of happiness.

As far as I can tell, the only thing atheism says about freedom or rights is people are biological machines. If that is true and people are machines, do machines deserve rights or freedom?

There's a slippery slope there where the corporate sector and tyrants may have realized that its more economical to oppress atheists than it is to oppress christians being that atheists don't necessarily believe they deserve things like rights or freedom, anyway.

And this could be the reason for educational institutions producing a very high percentage of left leaning atheists.

If I were saying something on the topic, it would be something like that.

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 23 August 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

At this point Zeretul I have begun to see what kind of person you are, and know that no argument I ever make, no matter how much evidence supports me, will ever convince you. So I am done. You obviously are ignorant of the science currently out there, and don't want to know it because you keep saying the same things that I have addressed and you refuse to acknowledge it. Have a nice time, I am done debating you.

That's cool.

Disagreement isn't a bad thing, in my opinion. People having different ideas can be a source of innovation and advancement in the sciences and in society in general.

So I hope you don't take it as an insult.

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 23 August 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

The Jewish texts more or less have most of the old Testament that Christians do. And the Bible comes from: Sumerian, Egyptian, and then several you mentioned, as well as also even some Indian beliefs as well which got mixed into it later.

The Bible is the greatest source of plagiarism in history.

There are lots of similar stories like the epic of gilgamesh.

The dead sea scrolls and the history of it is interesting to say the least.

[Rogue Jedi]

I actually quite enjoy debates with Jehovah Witnesses, I have one who comes to see me for a discussion about every 2 months, he always argues his point scientifically, the first time he stopped by I explained that I am willing to be convinced but it would take a lot of evidence, we will have a half hour or so of well reasoned debate when he does stop by (although he still has a long way to go before convincing me he does pose strong arguments with well reasoned points).

in my experience Jehovah Witnesses seem to be far from the religious zealots many people think they are.

[Inner Wolf]

Rogue Jedi, I agree with you totally. I am married to a full time minister of Jehovah. I support her fully and I think...personally...the witnesses are closer to the truth than every other religion I have been a part of.

They don't believe everything was created in seven 24 hour days. The Bible says a thousand years is as a day to God... He could have used a big bang to bring it all about. He could have set everything up and, with a certain degree of showmanship, said..."Hey son, watch this"...BANG!..."TADAA!"

[Inner Wolf]

You are clearly not talking to Jehovahs witnesses. They do NOT believe and act that way. If they tell you differently, they are just trying to cast a bad light on JW's. They also do not use the cross or any other symbol of murder etc.. in their worship.

Being an athiest, do you believe in the possibility of alien life?

Edited by Inner Wolf, 30 August 2016 - 01:23 PM.

[SeaLabCaptn]

Threads like this make me very proud to be a racist. Who do I hate?

The human race.

[Inner Wolf]

I'm sure not all athiests believe in sentient alien life. I should have left the, "Being an athiest," part off of the question.

The reason I ask is that I have seen that many people that do not believe in God, do believe in aliens. Sentient species from some other place among the heavens...

If they are able to believe in sentient alien life, they should be able to believe in God. An IMMENSELY powerful being. One so advanced he set up the laws that our scientists study and try to understand. A father whose first born son agreed to come down to earth and disprove accusations made against his father by his rebellious younger brothers. To quote his firstborn son: "My kingdom is no part of this world."

Maybe people should stop trying to disprove the existence of God, and try to understand who and what he really is.

[SeaLabCaptn]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 30 August 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

You and me both.

Thanks for the inspiration.

Time to bring it down again.
Don't just call me pessimist.
Try and read between the lines.

[SeaLabCaptn]

OFC you aren't stupid ever, SMH.

[Inner Wolf]

(This is what I tell myself when confronted with new/different ideas and thoughts shared by others): Maybe you are looking at things the wrong way. Maybe you could take a step back, open your mind, take off the blinders and look at things from another's viewpoint before deciding they are just wrong.

Even if I don't agree, I do try look at it fairly. You missed my point BTW.

[SeaLabCaptn]

Being prejudice against a group of human beings based on your own biased interactions seems like foolish behavior to me. Publicly badmouthing people of faith when you're one yourself also seems like a pretty stupid position.

That is, unless, you personally performed all the experiments your faith is based on, and can back them up more factually than your religion can. http://mwomercs.com/...31-for-science/

Don't mind me, just a self professed dimwit hypocrite.

[Inner Wolf]

"There is no evidence for the supernatural"... I was making the point that God is not "supernatural". To me, he is real. He is not a three fold being a.k.a. Father/Son/Holy Spirit three headed, confusing amalgam that is aloof to the plight of mankind. He is a father who tried to create a home for his progeny and at the same time made it so we can enjoy life. We could survive by seeing things in black and white, but our eyes were designed to take in all of the beautiful colors. Sadly some are color blind, but he promises to fix that. He promises to make it so noone dies anymore, noone is sick, noone wants to cause any harm to anyone else. That is the hope I referred to earlier in this thread. He promises to set up his own kingdom/government, ran by his firstborn son (that earned the right by being faithful as a human when we .)

That kingdom will put an end to all of the problems and suffering and confusion of mankind..... HOPE.

Religions have brought about a narrow minded, confusing view of what God really is. He has been portrayed as aloof, uncaring, judfemental, beyond all human comprehension due to his supernatural divinity.

To me, he is an immensely powerful -- REAL -- being. As humans, we have a tendency to limit things based on their own limited understanding or views. We tend to become the center of our own universe. We limit God/Jehovah/****** based on our limited views. He told us his name to let us get to know him.

"...all it takes for life to develop are amino acids to form chains...." Who/what brought the amino acids to the party?

Edit -- Why did it block Y-A-H-W-E-H?

Edited by Inner Wolf, 31 August 2016 - 03:57 AM.

[SeaLabCaptn]

You haven't "broken the foundation of my argument", I instead see you failing to understand/refute the point, supporting it through ignorance, and many contradictions in your argument.

Your faith is better than theirs because it is supported by others that believe the same as you. You trust in the "intellectual majority", they trust in their own beliefs.

We agree science isn't perfect, what we seem to disagree on is the trust earned by other human beings.

[Rushin Roulette]

Hehe, the last time I answered the door with a few of those guys on the other side I happened to be in a white Tshirt covered in blood. For some wierd reason they didnt want to come in when I told them I was in the middle of sacrificing a chicken and kind of busy at the moment.
Well, actually I had just cut up the steaks (one of them slipped up a bit while taking it out of the fridge... causing the blood part in the overall look ) and chicken to prepare for grilling them the next day... but close enough.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 31 August 2016 - 08:30 AM.

[Inner Wolf]

Scientifically it is possible to keep a bush from burning up while on fire. If one can control the energies involved. Men cannot do that so we have a tendency to think, "if I cannot understand how it is done, or do it myself, it is impossible/fallacy."

You limited your viewpoints to human limits. My point was to try and help you see that you are wrong about JW's and are limiting yourself to a narrow minded view from studying the work of other human beings. Some can say the same about me. I was just trying to get you to open up your perception and think outside the lines you drew around yourself and refuse to cross.

Not trying to upset you, just reason with you. Go in peace.

Edit: Even if there is no God, as some believe. You have to agree that the world would be a better place if everyone lived up to the Bible's standards..."Love your neigh or as yourself." No more murder, theft, adultery, cruelty, everyone would have enough to eat, no more worry about money... THAT is what JW's believe is in the future for mankind with Jehovah's kingdom, and are just trying to share that hope with others.

Edited by Inner Wolf, 31 August 2016 - 09:56 AM.

[SeaLabCaptn]

I assure you, atheists and agnostics alike have faith. I think your definition of "faith" could stand a revisit. "Word game" accusation is rich coming from you.

You claim to have an understanding of multiple religions, yet you incorrectly associate bad qualities of human beings to a religion that does not promote these behaviors. Instead of recognizing terrible people acting terribly you blame the religion they are inappropriately associating themselves with. Your problem is not actually with religion, but with those who misinterpret religion and claim it as a wrongful basis of their actions.

The experiment shows a sinle neuron creating an interference pattern with itself (?!), which is not the case if the neuron is observed. The behavior of the neuron changes dependant on the observer. Science fails to understand/acknowledge this.

Since prejudice seems to be the norm in this thread, allow me a parting joke: how do you tell the difference between the atheist and the believer? Don't worry, the atheist will TELL you.

[Inner Wolf]

If I came of as prejudiced or anything of the like, I sincerely apologize. I do know JW teachings by personal association. I have been around many other religions in the past and became didillusioned and quit them. Despite my history with religions, I still cannot help but try to get people (and myself) to look at things from different angles. There are thousands of answers to the common questions that every religion, branch of scientific study, creationist, evolutionist etc.. ask.

I firmly believe there is only one true answer to any question. Even if the only right answer is, "that depends on your opinion".

I fully realize I could be wrong about anything at any time, so I try to look at things objectively... and refuse to say anything is impossible just because I don't understand it. A work in progress...