90 replies to this topic

[SilentWolff]

Alistair Winter, on 20 August 2016 - 11:34 AM, said:

If it could detect and target ECM mechs an additional 100 meters away, that would be a very unique and useful ability.

They probably wanted to avoid P2W accusations, so they avoided making the special ability too strong. Not it's just a tiny nod to the lore, and it doesn't have any drawbacks.

Thats actually a cool idea. Your probably right about the P2W thing too.

[Ghostrider0067]

You have to remember that as far as lore is concerned, despite it being an assault class mech, it has been primarily utilized as a command platform.

[Zimm Kotare]

I have to disagree with the suggestion that sensor range is unimportant, perhaps I'm a PGI apologist, happy with what we have, aware that things could be better, but convinced that they are doing good works and on a steady path of improvement.

But regardless, I am often pleased by the rewarding and immersive details and facets of mwo, particularly the importance of information on your opponent. Sure you can just lay into another mech, but the target info available, if used well, can drastically alter your effectiveness and sensor range ties into this.

I'm not saying this because I think anyone who disagrees stupid, I see some high tier markers here, obviously there are players discussing this from a perspective of great knowledge and familiarity with the game. But personally, I don't see that sensors and by extension, their range, are anything other than critical. Even if info warfare has some evolution left in it yet.

[Yosharian]

Actually I quite like the idea of a sensor-focused mech, and I think it has its uses in-game. Very minimal uses, but still.

[Scout Derek]

Yosharian, on 20 August 2016 - 01:07 PM, said:

Actually I quite like the idea of a sensor-focused mech, and I think it has its uses in-game. Very minimal uses, but still.

I mean the Cyclops, rather the description on the wiki says it right there, that it's more of a command mech right there:

"...Other aspects of the 'Mech are less than stellar however. The diverse array of weapons means the 'Mech does suffer somewhat from ammunition issues while meager armoring provides less protection than that found on similar machines, though it is enough to stave off attackers until reinforcements arrive. In particular the armoring on the head section, while as heavily protected as allowed by the internal structure, leaves the pilot and the sophisticated command and control equipment more vulnerable than usual. When operating as the command vehicle at regimental and higher echelons with an ample support apparatus and guarded by a headquarters lance, these deficiencies are far less noticeable and the Cyclops could be kept in reserve until employed to turn the tide of battle or exploit a weakness..."


So PGI kinda following the lore... one could say. Not supposed to be up front, it's a command mech pretty much (sensor boost).

Regardless one can or could modify it to become something else, which is fine. This mech chassis can do a variety of loadouts and roles.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

jss78, on 20 August 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

Yeah, I feel like they chose the wrong mechanic for the B-2000 computer. Right now its usefulness revolves around the utility of >800 m sensor range. And that's just very, very situational. Maybe in that 1-in-100 lurm-fest game at Polar it'll make a real difference.

I wonder if they might attempt extending the B-2000 effects to target info gathering (i.e. quicker paper dolls to you, and to team mates near you). Now THAT would be universally useful. Assuming level of play where people hit R and look at the paper dolls.

You know, have the Tacticon allow you and any friendlies in your aura to get instantly populated paper dolls would be huge. Even if it were only a 50% boost (half the time as normal base, or near-instantaneous with the Target Info Gathering module), it'd still be situationally huge.

What I'd really like to see, though, is the ability to target multiple hostiles. Even if they killed every other aspect of the Tacticon, if you gained sticky targeting (once you target a mech it stays targeted), or better, if it auto-targeted every enemy in range and LoS, that would make it amazing, and make taking out a Cyclops a huge deal.

[Scout Derek]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 20 August 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

You know, have the Tacticon allow you and any friendlies in your aura to get instantly populated paper dolls would be huge. Even if it were only a 50% boost (half the time as normal base, or near-instantaneous with the Target Info Gathering module), it'd still be situationally huge.

What I'd really like to see, though, is the ability to target multiple hostiles. Even if they killed every other aspect of the Tacticon, if you gained sticky targeting (once you target a mech it stays targeted), or better, if it auto-targeted every enemy in range and LoS, that would make it amazing, and make taking out a Cyclops a huge deal.

Umm... then you make the Cyclops basically one of the better and possibly best LRM boats out there.

That, my friend, is power creep at it's finest. No offense to your idea however.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Scout Derek, on 20 August 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

Umm... then you make the Cyclops basically one of the better and possibly best LRM boats out there.

That, my friend, is power creep at it's finest. No offense to your idea however.

The thing is under-quirked and doesn't have the best hitbox or hardpoint arrangements out there, based on the visuals. The current sensor boons are decidedly weak, though they are interesting and if infowarfare ever becomes a real thing maybe they'll matter more, but if you want to emulate lore while also making it a truly meaningful advantage, then something like sticky or automatic targeting would do the job nicely.

[Scout Derek]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 20 August 2016 - 02:00 PM, said:

The thing is under-quirked and doesn't have the best hitbox or hardpoint arrangements out there, based on the visuals. The current sensor boons are decidedly weak, though they are interesting and if infowarfare ever becomes a real thing maybe they'll matter more, but if you want to emulate lore while also making it a truly meaningful advantage, then something like sticky or automatic targeting would do the job nicely.

.-.


Still power creep, come on man.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

It is a fast 90 ton assault mech with decent hard point location and allotment. There is abuild that can laser vomit, one that can dakka all day, and one that can do 7SRM4's easily. The Cyclops is a more mobile and smaller frontal profile Mauler with a gimic of extra sensor range. Yes the stock configrations have low armor but guess what, easily fixed, slap endo on the stock builds and DHS then bump up that armor with the saved tonnage and you have a mech that can actually not die when sneezed at and hit things back at in somewhat respectable manner. Just because the damn thing isn't power creep doesn't mean the dev's don't play their own game or that it is DoA. Hell, the info stuff is a bit of fluff that is to carry over to infotech which is supposed to come back one day, just requires a lot more tweaking before they put it on PTS again.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

This thread is so LOL.
Never heard of mechlab?
trololo

[C E Dwyer]

extra 150 meters of sensor range, extra 150 of knowing where the mech has an open torso arm or leg . 100 for your team mates.

Seems pretty useful to me.

Once its out for C-bills perhaps it'll get buffed

[Shadowomega1]

Guess someone missed the memo on Information Warfare 2.0.

[GrimRiver]

The B-2000 should give the team stat boosts of a max tier tac-com, CC and BAP.

To make it really worth to take/take out.

It'll give the team a moral boost but if the enemy see's it, it'll make them a target so it has to be worth it's risk.

[Gas Guzzler]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 20 August 2016 - 02:11 PM, said:

There is abuild that can laser vomit

There is? Oh.. you mean the one with 6 energy hardpoints in the arms?'

Yeah no, laser vomit is gonna be sub par on this thing.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

giving targeting time decrease with that would be semi decent.

[C E Dwyer]

Scout Derek, on 20 August 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

Umm... then you make the Cyclops basically one of the better and possibly best LRM boats out there.

That, my friend, is power creep at it's finest. No offense to your idea however.

but Lurms are weapons for noobs with no leet skillz remember

[Dee Eight]

ImyerHuckleberry, on 20 August 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

Its not the fact that you can max armor, its the fact that PGI thinks thats sensor range matters. I know you can max the armor, again, that wasnt the point.

To some people...YES it does... people with LRMs but without adv sensors or an active probe will appreciate another hundred meters to be able to get their own locks by standing near a cyclops. Cyclops pilots themselves... command console, beagle, adv sensor range... we're up to 1400 meters. I'll be able to stand back OUTSIDE of enemy missile range, and for that matter many enemy direct fire weapon ranges and still lock targets for people operating closer to the front.. that's exactly the role cyclops mechs were meant for... to COMMAND forces and oversee a large battlefield.

Edited by Dee Eight, 20 August 2016 - 03:53 PM.

[Sorbic]

ImyerHuckleberry, on 20 August 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

Yeah except when has PGI payed any attention to lore?

Plenty of times but you're currently upset and only looking through one eye.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Max sensor range is actually a lot more powerful than you give it credit for. With pugs it allows you to lock a target for those whose sensor range doesn't go out as far as yours does. This is actually why ECM is considered broken to a lot of people who play solo queue because many players are blind to any mech without a red triangle over it. This is partially why ECM range got cut in half from it's canon disruption range of 180m to 90m radius. It was due to players were having issues spotting targets due to they were not used to doing it with their eyes. The best way to look at this is that the player base of MWO is spoiled with information overload that we currently have.