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Need More Love For Support Players


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#41 SQW

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 08:46 PM

View PostKBurn85, on 23 August 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

There is no support role in this game. At best, it is an extremely tertiary objective, popping a UAV to scout enemies in the first 2 minutes is pretty much the cutting edge of it. As such, I don't see any need to reward support.

Lights in the original BT game were used to pin down lances from moving into advantageous positions, lest they leave their back armour open. Obviously, this is very hard to translate to this game.

Then, you have this game, where more or less, the objective is to wipe out the OPFOR. There are no passive buffs, etc. So there is no support role, and thus, nothing to reward.


I bet you'll change your mind if you ever play with or against me. Posted Image

I've been playing for over a year now and I can honestly say I've only met one other guy who outfit his mech like mine and plays a proper support light. Just ask yourself, how many times have you seen a narc in play? Out of that, how many of those mechs were on com with regular enemy location updates?

Role play current doesn't exist in MWO not because it doesn't support it (it definitely doesn't encourages it either) but because the player base would MUCH rather prefer doing the shooting and tell everyone else they better be shooting too.

Edited by SQW, 23 August 2016 - 08:48 PM.


#42 Dingo Battler

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 10:26 PM

View PostSQW, on 23 August 2016 - 08:46 PM, said:


I bet you'll change your mind if you ever play with or against me. Posted Image



Show your tier.

Also, your leaderboards stats says totally otherwise. Sorry.

I play lights well (rank 70), and the only kind of "support" I'm doing is picking off the slow and isolated assaults, similar to what is done in battletech. Other than that, I might run through the crowd once in a while, but doesn't work in the higher tiers, as people know not to fall for chase the squirrel.

Don't blame me. Blame PGI

Edited by KBurn85, 23 August 2016 - 10:28 PM.


#43 LordNothing

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 10:29 PM

yes. support players are important. without them, who would clean the latrines?

#44 SQW

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 11:11 PM

View PostKBurn85, on 23 August 2016 - 10:26 PM, said:


Show your tier.

Also, your leaderboards stats says totally otherwise. Sorry.

I play lights well (rank 70), and the only kind of "support" I'm doing is picking off the slow and isolated assaults, similar to what is done in battletech. Other than that, I might run through the crowd once in a while, but doesn't work in the higher tiers, as people know not to fall for chase the squirrel.

Don't blame me. Blame PGI



Tier 3. Took 6+ months hiatus after the Warhmmer pack. Also, you try to level up fast in a 3ML light. Posted Image

Leaderboard score and in-game reward is skewed towards damage hence the purpose of the thread. PGI puts dmg over team work in scoring so people will load up ACH/LCT and chase the score; it reinforces personal heroic over team work and those who care too much about their K/D ratio will gravitate towards that approach. The end result is too many hero lights and not enough scout/spotters for the rest of the team.

I do a respectable 150 dmg on average with my 3MLs and maybe a kill here and there (so around a score of 200 on a win) but how do you quantify giving target info to your whole team? How do you value something that allows your team to know exactly where that KGC and Kodiak are standing around the corner or mark an ECM light mech like that ACH so it can do nothing but run away and eat LRM? You might not see it much but my build totally negates aggressive lights. Unless I do something stupid and get myself kill early, the other team's lights rarely does much dmg because 40+sec worth of narc completely removes their threat assuming they doesn't get killed.

Speaking of squirrel, a scout mech shouldn't even come within 400-500m of his/her target so no, squirrel baiting is not something I do. Shocking right? A light mech that threaten the other team without getting into SMPL range. Posted Image

Am I saying a support RVN is better than your rank 70 attack light? Of course not. I just want PGI to tweak the reward/score system so it doesn't look like personal dmg is the only thing that counts and maybe convince a few more light pilots to try an alternative route.

#45 Besh

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 01:25 AM

View PostSQW, on 23 August 2016 - 11:11 PM, said:


[...]

Leaderboard score and in-game reward is skewed towards damage hence the purpose of the thread. PGI puts dmg over team work in scoring so people will load up ACH/LCT and chase the score; it reinforces personal heroic over team work and those who care too much about their K/D ratio will gravitate towards that approach. The end result is too many hero lights and not enough scout/spotters for the rest of the team.

I do a respectable 150 dmg on average with my 3MLs and maybe a kill here and there (so around a score of 200 on a win) but how do you quantify giving target info to your whole team? How do you value something that allows your team to know exactly where that KGC and Kodiak are standing around the corner or mark an ECM light mech like that ACH so it can do nothing but run away and eat LRM? You might not see it much but my build totally negates aggressive lights. Unless I do something stupid and get myself kill early, the other team's lights rarely does much dmg because 40+sec worth of narc completely removes their threat assuming they doesn't get killed.
[...]



Agreed, score and rewards are skewed towards damage . That is in fact one of, if not THE main Gripe many people have with the spot most of the Lights are in . In this Game, where the best way to "earn" anything worthwhile is to simply do loads of dmg., KMDDs, and SoloKills, Lights are handicapped. All Lights . The "combat oriented" ones as well as the "scouting" ones .

But do not think simply loading up an ACH or LCT with some lazors is a ticket to scoring big . "Hero" Lights may do well as long a they are hopping around in T5/T4 SQ QP. As soon as you routinely start playing people who actually know how to pilot a 'Mech, and aim weapons - not so much anymore . Even harder when playing GQ much . To even survive a Match is often an exercise in positioning, smarts, sneakiness etc...going ahead and score a Kill or 2, and do dmg in xcess of lets say 400, is a feat. in those Chassis mentioned .

Also, please do not assume a "combat oriented" Light does nothing to help its Team in terms of "scouting" . Ofc I will drop UAVs ( often risking my 'Mech for it ), and not rarely is that alone enough to simply turn, or make a Game . I will ofc ALSO spot enemies if I see them while making my - hopefully hidden - way around the Map - but here is the kicker : as soon as I spot an enemy ( hit "R" ), they know it through the accoustic warning . My Chassis does not have ECM . I am immediately in danger . So, sometimes I just opt. NOT to do it....depends on a few factors though .

While running around, I WILL inform my Team about enemy movement, positions, suggest positions for my Team, even Call out Targets . Not always, but whenever possible and helpfull . I tend to think playing my Light the way I do, I am almost as helpfull in Terms of "scouting" as a dedicated "scout 'Mech"....but am additionally able to very effectively disrupt the enemy Team by harassing, providing support on several spots in rapid succession etc .

p.s.: When I am out in my Locust, and someone in my Team goes "Raven X is NARCing"...I go hunting . Sometimes I win ( neuter the Raven/take him out ), sometimes I loose ( mostly if I position bad, its often not rly hard to hunt it down at a moment and/or in terrain where his LRM buddies can not reach me and/or are Target saturated, NARC or not XD). But no, I am mostly not made useless because of the NARC Raven . I have played in excess of 300 Games in Lights since the introduction of QP LeaderBoards, there were I think 2 Games where a NARC RVN simply came in, NARCed me and I got subsequently killed by LRMs

Edited by Besh, 24 August 2016 - 01:45 AM.


#46 SQW

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 02:08 AM

View PostBesh, on 24 August 2016 - 01:25 AM, said:


p.s.: When I am out in my Locust, and someone in my Team goes "Raven X is NARCing"...I go hunting . Sometimes I win ( neuter the Raven/take him out ), sometimes I loose ( mostly if I position bad, its often not rly hard to hunt it down at a moment and/or in terrain where his LRM buddies can not reach me and/or are Target saturated, NARC or not XD). But no, I am not made useless because of the NARC Raven .


Haha, correct. The dance between a Narc light and a screening light in their respective roles are probably the only dynamic thing among the dominant brawl/peek-a-boo style of MWO. If I'm closer to the enemy side of map, getting caught by another light is usually a bad day for me. If I happen to be closer to my own team, the other light usually gets the short end of the stick. I probably spend as much time looking at the mini-map as my crosshair because of that.

The reason why I say I counter aggressive light is because the mere fact that you are visible at all times for 40sec is a huge deterrent. You can no longer sneak behind the assaults to wreck havoc as you please and may even have to remain under cover just to avoid the lrm.

Also, I have to state again that I'm not saying an aggressive light is by definition not a team player or less skilled. I readily acknowledge their contribution and the more...active support they provide to the team. Posted Image

Edited by SQW, 24 August 2016 - 03:15 AM.


#47 nimdabew

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 02:21 AM

View PostSQW, on 22 August 2016 - 09:51 PM, said:

I'm sure more than a few light pilots would love to role play if just given half a incentive to do so.

If they made role skill trees, most of my lights would go towards stuff like increast info gathering time, reduced missile lock for other team mates on that one target (ala tag but no laser), increase time before being spotted (semi ecm stealth), or other such things. Assaults can get the reduced crit chance skills, reduced ballistic reload times (ballistic cooldown quirks), and a bunch of stuff. They need to make the quirks skills that can be purchased across all mechs so you can get a super tanky atlas that has slow to load weapons, or a fast zeus with increased crit chance from missiles but low health.

So much potential lost by not making it a skill tree quirk and trying to make mech specific quirks. GG PGI. You got me hooked but can't make the juice worth the squeeze.

#48 Stone Wall

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 02:36 AM

View PostNavid A1, on 22 August 2016 - 09:49 PM, said:

Anything outside of pure damage is not rewarded.

reason?
Paulconomy is the answer.

PGI is afraid players might abuse the system to farm rewards.... or earn too much (lol).
Yet they don't have an idea about HOW players can abuse the system.
They are just like: Screw the rewards... that is the only way to be sure it is not abused.


The maps in MechWarrior 4 were so large, it was extremely helpful to have scouts.

The maps here are pretty small, making Lights not matter.

Another way MWO has moved away from MechWarrior.

#49 SQW

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 03:30 AM

View PostStone Wall, on 24 August 2016 - 02:36 AM, said:

The maps in MechWarrior 4 were so large, it was extremely helpful to have scouts.

The maps here are pretty small, making Lights not matter.

Another way MWO has moved away from MechWarrior.


I disagree and I'm not just talking about larger maps like Polar. Sure, a few maps are close brawlers but even on maps like Canyon, Crimson and Mining, giving your team advance knowledge of the location of beta/charlie lance and their movement can really dictate how the initial engagement occur. Not to mention it is a good idea to have a 30 tonner running around watching for flanking maneuver instead of a 70 tonner.

Just had a game last night in Canyon. I was running my usual RVN-3L. Tagged two mechs in the center and the rest of the team settled in the usual spot around the big ramp for some sniping. I flanked left to tag a mech I saw earlier and ran smack into 2 lances going for a ninja base cap. My warning to the team gave them enough time to swing around and ended the game 6-12 with half of the bar left on the base cap. Had it not been for the scouting, that would have been a loss - the typical response to a base cap audio warning would have been too slow and too little.

#50 Stone Wall

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 03:36 AM

Don't get me wrong. I love Lights. I wish we had larger maps to give them more options than running in trenches and tunnels.

I saw a Scat trolling my team in Alpine with 1 ER PPC. He ran for our spawn, camped the mountain, and began shooting all the Assaults in the back.

With larger maps, Lights would be feared and Heavies would be the go to Mechs.





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