58 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

SpootieBloot, on 24 August 2016 - 04:13 AM, said:

Thank you for the responses. I remember reading about Jaime Wolf using his Archer to wipe out a bunch of mechs by himself. Is it that good in MWO?

This was my first run in a customized one. Big thing is how you play and luck of the battle.

[SpootieBloot]

Koniving, on 24 August 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

This was my first run in a customized one. Big thing is how you play and luck of the battle.

That was a good watch. Thanks and NICE SHOT on that fast mech. I had to rewind it to see how you even hit it. I did notice that you didnt let him get behind you.

Since I am a newer pilot, would it be a bad idea to have a mech setup that can run out of ammo? I hate the thought of running out of ammo.

[invernomuto]

Koniving, on 23 August 2016 - 06:43 AM, said:

This is because rather than forcing some normalising between stock armor and max armor so the ratio between all mechs is maintained, they allowed tabletop mech creation rules with a few of their own, rather than tabletop campaign mech customization rules...which would have kept the unique flavors, perks and issues of each mech intact).

Hi Koniving, I found your posts always very informative.
Could you please summarize the "campaign mech customization rules" you're referring to? I had the TT game and I know the mech creation rules but I do know anything about the other rules...

[SpootieBloot]

Is the Catapult a good mech for newer players? Idont know why but I love the way they looked and worked in the academy. I have not been able to actually use one outside of the academy, in battle.

[Koniving]

invernomuto, on 24 August 2016 - 01:42 PM, said:

Hi Koniving, I found your posts always very informative.
Could you please summarize the "campaign mech customization rules" you're referring to? I had the TT game and I know the mech creation rules but I do know anything about the other rules...

I don't know the specifics since no local TT gamers here, so I use Megamek. There's a plethora of options, each referring to pages of specific books where the rules come from and some marked as unofficial. There's pricing, availability, 'local acquisition only' which if checked then technicians cannot order parts that are not within the system (and I've noticed that local acquisitions are always in bad to horrific shape since they come from salvage yards and bottom-feeder merchants). Whether purchases are done in cbills or a specific faction currency. An example of an unofficial rule is "Shared ammo" where all LRMs share ammo, SRMs share ammo, ACs share ammo so that your stockpile doesn't need to get more missiles when you have some for the LRM-15s and want to use them for an LRM-20.

Changes to Battlemechs can take a while (even with all the parts some large scale changes might take upwards of 4 to 5 weeks while smaller ones might be done in days to a week and a half. Just depends on how well the job can be done, what there is available to do it with, and more importantly how competent the technician(s) are and how many AsTechs they have. These changes can be expedited if you change 'certain' equipment with certain other equipment. Such as an SRM-6 can be quickly changed with a LRM-15, but an LRM-10 or SRM-4 would take longer. Between this and the fact that SRMs are 96 to 100 missiles per ton of ammo, while LRMs are 120 missiles per ton... goes to show that Short Range Missiles are larger and that as Sarna mentions, an SRM-6 is easily interchangeable with an LRM-15 or MRM-20 or Mortar/4, but would take some time switching out with something smaller or larger. LRM-20 is easily interchangeable with an MRM-40 and Artemis IV. This suggest 'sized' 'softpoints' (not a hard restriction like MWO, but definitely restrictive in terms of what you can do in a short amount of time if you need to get ready before an offensive shows up -- and yes you can be caught before you are ready for it).

Then if you go a bit further, several classic battletech mechs make specific references to issues they have, such as the Atlas not having enough physical room for equipment despite all the 'slots' free. Those slots are meant for the 'create a mech' setup, but supposedly at stock builds for the Atlases D, D-DC, and RS... however many slots are consumed are exactly how many you're supposed to be able to use rather than all the empty ones. Quad mech Scorpion makes mention of this, as does numerous others. Hunchback for example, if just 'refitting' it, the ammo should stay in the left torso (except for the 4SP), as it is loaded into the drum on its back due to the Hunchback's very short size (it is about the height of MWO's commando in Battletech).

Megamek's "MegaMek HQ" has a lot of rule listings from several sources which has a big effect on customization.

Since it refers to TacOps, StratOps, Field Manual Mercenaries (revised), LOTS of Total Warfare, AToW (A Time of War)...and several others I imagine that the rules aren't just in a single book (though Total Warfare would be my best guess for a single stop).

There's evidently rules for pilot cybernetic implants, special skills, "BAR" or Barrier Armor Rating which is important for through-armor-crits and damage absorbtion/negation. (All Mech/Vehicle weapons have a BAR of 10. Short of Rifles. Mech Rifles hitting a BAR of 8 or higher lose 3 damage). ...There's even rules for "procreating", prisoner capture/interrogation...

Quite a bit of fun to be had.

Edited by Koniving, 24 August 2016 - 04:55 PM.

[Karl the Plumber]

SpootieBloot, on 24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

Is the Catapult a good mech for newer players? Idont know why but I love the way they looked and worked in the academy. I have not been able to actually use one outside of the academy, in battle.

Catapult's a good rig to start with if you like missiles, yeah. You'll need three of the same mech to unlock the basic skills, and then two of the same weight class basic'd to unlock the elite skills. When you unlock elite, it gives you a double bonus for the basics: check out the skills section in the homepage if you're not sure what I'm talking about. Point being—you'll want to unlock the basic and elite skill levels before you can play the mech at its best, and since you need three mechs to unlock the skills, the catapult is good to learn on because you can get the all-missile A1, the mixed energy/missile C1, and the mixed ballistic/energy K2. You can see which playstyle you like best.

Also it looks good.

Edited by Karl the Plumber, 24 August 2016 - 04:45 PM.

[Koniving]

SpootieBloot, on 24 August 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

That was a good watch. Thanks and NICE SHOT on that fast mech. I had to rewind it to see how you even hit it. I did notice that you didnt let him get behind you. Since I am a newer pilot, would it be a bad idea to have a mech setup that can run out of ammo? I hate the thought of running out of ammo.

The shot on the fast mech, if referring to the one near 5:12, was done using SRMs from the Arms.

Note the "o" crosshair that moves separately from the "+" crosshair (Armlock is off). I aimed quite a bit ahead of the Commando with my arms and he just runs into the missiles as they launch. You can see multiple times over I keep gauging the aim early, expecting him to swing by faster or sooner, or that he might be trying to sneak around me the other way before I finally see him. Never let a light get behind you as it is almost impossible to get them back in front of you.

I would suggest having a setup that uses other weapons. That particular Archer doesn't really have much in laser weaponry and to be honest the build was sort of a joke because "Zomg I'm a missile mech".

Good combination is shown here, and more "arm aiming". Especially taking out that Hunchback sneaking off behind me.

SpootieBloot, on 24 August 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

Is the Catapult a good mech for newer players? Idont know why but I love the way they looked and worked in the academy. I have not been able to actually use one outside of the academy, in battle.

The Catapult always used to be good for new players. Given how much smaller it is after the rescale, I don't see why not.
Another missile joke build.

(Hit detection mentioned here was a lot worse than it is now, though something like this issue still exists just not as bad as 4 SRM-6s are popular.)
While aggressive solo attacks like this are not recommended, this a C4 Catapult being used to harass enemies in a hit-and-run config of 4 Streak SRM-2s and 2 MPL. With a friend in tow, I keep giving updates. "Alright, I got him. Missile doors closed, pulling away." "Going for Echo again. Okay I got line of sight. Losing him. Charlie." Lots of first/third person switching for fun.


This is a good Centurion vid. Good production value on it too. Two man team.


And finally, if you watch nothing else, this Cicada video with 'edited' Battle and main computer voices will give quite a bit of insight into skirmishes while they happen... There's also a one versus two fight where I turn it around from near defeat by switching from 'alpha' firing to chain fire... otherwise I would have died at their hands.

Spoiler contains unedited version.

Spoiler

Edited by Koniving, 24 August 2016 - 05:32 PM.

[Kali Rinpoche]

The stock Summoner Prime feels and plays like the TT version, but your wouldn't want to take it out with Stock Armor levels.

For me the Centurion and Hunchback were my favorite mediums of lore and TT.

[Rerednaw]

Welcome to MWO. I just started myself (had not played since beta) game is very different now. Long TT player MCmdr, MW1-4, etc...

IMHO, keep playing the trials till you get the one that feels right. I have tried most of them, but invariably end up in my Jenner or Centurion or Hunchback. I run both pretty much stock, but have fun with different configs in the lab and academy. I have a pair of Atlases...but not quite my style at least not yet. Not buying any mechs till I get a better feel myself and they will have to be on sale.

Good luck and have fun!

[Rogue Jedi]

With regards to ammo, if you never run out you are bringing too much, usualy I aim to run out about 10 minutes into a match, but I always try to have enough energy based weapons that I can keep fighting.

I have figured a few basic ammo usage "rules", which are a good starting point for ammounts of ammo to take, there are many Mechs on which I take more or less but here are my starting points
SRM, half ton for each 2 tubes
LRM, 1 ton for 5 tubes
AC 2, 2 tons per gun
AC 5, 10 and 20, 3 tons per gun
Gauss, 3 ton per gun
Machine Gun, Half ton per gun

I use these as a starting point and after a few games I will reevaluate

[Koniving]

Karl the Plumber, on 24 August 2016 - 04:38 PM, said:

Catapult's a good rig to start with if you like missiles, yeah. You'll need three of the same mech to unlock the basic skills, and then two of the same weight class basic'd to unlock the elite skills. When you unlock elite, it gives you a double bonus for the basics: check out the skills section in the homepage if you're not sure what I'm talking about. Point being—you'll want to unlock the basic and elite skill levels before you can play the mech at its best, and since you need three mechs to unlock the skills, the catapult is good to learn on because you can get the all-missile A1, the mixed energy/missile C1, and the mixed ballistic/energy K2. You can see which playstyle you like best.

Also it looks good.

To clarify this...
You should start unlocking basics immediately.
Complete basics on three unique variants to unlock access to elites.
Use any three mechs of the same weight class to unlock access to master.

[SpootieBloot]

I am a little overwhelmed by all of the options available.

Thanks so much for the welcom, videos and advice.

[Koniving]

invernomuto, on 24 August 2016 - 01:42 PM, said:

Hi Koniving, I found your posts always very informative.
Could you please summarize the "campaign mech customization rules" you're referring to? I had the TT game and I know the mech creation rules but I do know anything about the other rules...

Thought of it a bit more, and looking at it right now...
First off, the rules as mentioned before that MWO is using are Construction rules for building a brand new, "from the factory or field, 'this is how I imagine it' " 'Mech.
The rules for customizing an already existing 'Mech "Aftermarket" are evidently referred to as the following which the specific term has changed a few times since 1986: "Field refit" "Field modifications (Field Mods for short), "After Acquisition Customization" (translated title from German Battletech), and "mech customization for campaigns."

(Since kinda stretching the topic I stuffed it in a spoiler)

Spoiler

Some noteworthy things about the campaign customization ("Refit") rules:

• Ammo bins. If your mech has 1 ton of ammo, then you get 1 ton of ammo. If it has 5, then you get 5. You can change the ammo in your bin within an hour's time. Want more ammo than you have bins for? You're looking at a minimum of 3 days.
  
• You can have a slot/ton dedicated for ammo...and have no ammo.
  
• Armor. You can repair/replace armor within hours if you make no changes. If you make changes to how 'thick' the armor is or its allocation, it could take days. If you try to replace the type of armor altogether for a location (Patchwork armor) or the whole mech... it could take a substantial amount of time. How much depends on where you are and what access you have to facilities. In some situations it isn't even possible.
  
• Structure. Changing structure types is impossible without access to the factory it was manufactured in, even then there is a substantially high risk for failure, costing you the entire 'Mech. There seems to be an optional sub-rule that if you add endo-steel structure to a 'Mech, you must add a design quirk that increases its targeting profile (making you easier to shoot). I.E. if you take a normal mech and add endo-steel, it just became thicker/taller than before. (If it was originally "low profile" it becomes "normal," and if it was "normal" it becomes "High profile". If it was high profile, you add another notch to it which makes you that much easier to hit. Evidently in addition to repair/rearm costs and availability issues, having endo steel made you easier to hit. (An edge for Summoners over Timber Wolves? o.O; Just a thought.)
  
• Virtually no access to brand new 'perfect condition' 'Mechs. A perfect "F" condition is practically unattainable without cheating. (The condition "A" is barely if not non-functional.)
  
• Bit more on the soft point system. Doesn't have actual mention of autocannon or laser swapping. Evidently those are just difficult and don't get 'breaks' like missile launcher changing.
  
• Omnimechs are excluded from the softpoint system and its quirks, since Omnimechs can change their entire loadout within hours as opposed to weeks or months for Battlemechs. (This is why Omnimechs can't change 'other' stuff. It isn't because they actually can't, it is because why would you? Sure you can make the changes to their engines and the like, but one you'd then have to make extensive changes to all the compatible omnipod weaponry and equipment, and two it'd take too damn long and keep the 'Mech out of action. Economically and in terms of time it is simply unreasonable to 'want' to make those changes.)
  
• Battlemechs in customization, if equipped with modular weapons, can swap them out for other hand-held modular weapons with incredible ease. As in you could do it during a battle. The issue is an enemy 'Mech that has similar compatibility for modular weaponry could just yank the weapon out of your hand and use it against you; an evidently terrifying prospect during the Succession Wars leading to the dramatic reductions in their use. (Example 'Mechs: Thunderbolt, Griffin, Wolverine, Battlemaster, and Phoenix Hawk just to name a quick few).
  
• I have a note to list modular weapons and how they work, but to be honest laziness.
  
• Attachable jetpacks. All 'Mechs have a set amount of 'extra' weight they can haul. Jetpacks are among them. These are effectively backpacks, have a finite amount of fuel and are usually used for 'air drops'. They can also be used for improvised jumpjets but their utility is super-limited due to fuel issues. They detach automatically when the fuel is consumed or lost due to attack.
  
• "Refit Kits" are awesome. Once you customize a BattleMech, which is like strapping a missile launcher to your car after pulling out the the passenger seat... the Technician can submit design specs into something that a manufacturer can produce. That way you can buy the car right out of a lot with missile launcher professionally installed without any of the issues. So when 'ordered' they can deliver a refit kit for turning one mech variant into another in a single shipment order which is considerably cheaper, arrives all at once, and can be done a lot quicker. This is because there isn't time lost to the technician having to "figure out how to go about making it work" as well as reduced 'failure' risks due to having a manual explaining exactly how to do it. Mistakes can still happen but it is because of technician incompetence.
  
• Modifying a mech runs the risks of less than optimal weapon and equipment. Say a bad attachment job results in a laser with a poor cooling jacket connection; it'll produce extra heat. Or installing an AC that wasn't meant for the 'Mech could lead to issues with the ammo feed, causing potential jams. (Imagine if MWO's MGs could permanently jam and have to be brought back to a mechbay in order to unjam; one that's been forced onto a mech and improperly mounted can.)

I once captured a Dire Wolf and ran it for a number of missions. Before I lost it, this is a bit of what it looked like.

The quirks aren't listed here as those are a campaign thing handled in MekHQ rather than MekLab.

But basically I had poor to no cooling jackets on some lasers so the mech generates quite a bit more heat than shown.. Lost omnimech status so it is a Battlemech now after having to replace the engine. The new engine got fused with permanent 'one crit' damage that can't be fixed and the engine could not be removed after. Faulty computer tidbits making the mech more difficult to pilot. Somewhere I wrote this big story about it but for some reason google isn't coming up with it or the original picture.

Anyway, long story short I finally lost the thing. It made it through some six or seven battles and every single battle it depreciated. When I captured the 'Mech it was worth nearly 30 million!

So yeah. Figured I'd share some more of what I could think of.

[SpootieBloot]

You are definitely an avid student of Battletech and MWO.

I played the Orion trial in one match and got 2 kills. One because he was focused on another teammate. The other was a Raven that thought he was hidden but his beak was sticking out and my ac20 caught it. I woulda been pissed if I were him. TOTAL luck on my part.

I had to turn the sensitivity down to .3, otherwise my shot were going everywhere but on target. Is that about normal, or do you guys run it wide open?

[762 NATO]

Stock load out that plays well... With some armor, ammo and engine tweaking, I would pick the Yen Lo Wang and the Hunchback 4G. The next best (IMO) is the Centurion 9D with SRM4s, LB10 and 2 MLas, leave the engine alone, 1.5 tons of SRM ammo and the rest in LB ammo. Adjust armor as preferred. It is not super TT because of the SRMs, but its pretty fast and dumps shells out twice as fast as the lasers cycle (with current cooldown mod and cooldowns). Ghostheat 2.0 will change that last bit some.

Also had good results with them in the public test server, so they will probably still work well in a few months.

Cheers!

[SpootieBloot]

Thanks! I seem to be having more success with medium mechs maneuverability so I am thinking of going that direction. I liked using the Hunchback on the TT game with the ac20. I never used the Centurion but I liked the Yen Lo Wang in the books. Also, that video Koniving shared showed me that the Centurion is pretty durable.

I liked using the Trebuchet trial with the lrms. I didnt get any kills but I stayed in the middle of the group and got alot of assists. I also used the Vindicator but I dont like that damage doesnt register with the ppcs in close. I had to run away a couple of times when they charged and my ppc shots did nothing. Lasers seem to be better for me. I really enjoy the pulse lasers.

I did the best with the Stormcrow and the pulse lasers. Second best would have to be the ShadowCat. It seems though, that the clan mechs overheat faster than the inner sphere mechs. In lore they are supposed to run cooler.

What is Ghostheat 2.0?

Should I start a topic for each question, or post them here? Another question lol.

[Koniving]

SpootieBloot, on 25 August 2016 - 08:51 PM, said:

You are definitely an avid student of Battletech and MWO.

I played the Orion trial in one match and got 2 kills. One because he was focused on another teammate. The other was a Raven that thought he was hidden but his beak was sticking out and my ac20 caught it. I woulda been pissed if I were him. TOTAL luck on my part.

I had to turn the sensitivity down to .3, otherwise my shot were going everywhere but on target. Is that about normal, or do you guys run it wide open?

Some say to go as far down as 0.1. I personally keep mine at regular one and tap a sensitivity button on my mouse on the fly to jump from barely sensitive for precision aiming to whip a full 180 torso twist. In the Urban mech I keep it high because 360 degree torso twist! Also use a joystock for that one so I can spin for fun. Makes up for the lack of arm horizontal movement and arm flipping of the original BT version. There, only the seat spun around the controls attached to your chair. Course cheap mech is cheap so super simple controls.

[Koniving]

.

SpootieBloot, on 26 August 2016 - 03:27 AM, said:

Thanks! I seem to be having more success with medium mechs maneuverability so I am thinking of going that direction. I liked using the Hunchback on the TT game with the ac20. I never used the Centurion but I liked the Yen Lo Wang in the books. Also, that video Koniving shared showed me that the Centurion is pretty durable.

I liked using the Trebuchet trial with the lrms. I didnt get any kills but I stayed in the middle of the group and got alot of assists. I also used the Vindicator but I dont like that damage doesnt register with the ppcs in close. I had to run away a couple of times when they charged and my ppc shots did nothing. Lasers seem to be better for me. I really enjoy the pulse lasers.

I did the best with the Stormcrow and the pulse lasers. Second best would have to be the ShadowCat. It seems though, that the clan mechs overheat faster than the inner sphere mechs. In lore they are supposed to run cooler.

What is Ghostheat 2.0?

Should I start a topic for each question, or post them here? Another question lol.

Ghost heat a punishment for firing too much of a set selection of weapons. It is broken in its exploitability if you think outside the meta box.
Ghost heat 2.0 is PGI's oversimplified "powerdraw" mechanic. Which would be neat, and kinda funny yet really balanced if your power for weapons was the inverse of your engine size, encouraging a trade-off between high speeds or high firepower rather than "you are this size, here is your power draw limit" which is the direction it is going in.
What it is trying to do is address the fact that MWO has a problem with its MWO-only (never existed before) rising mech threshold (,in addition to cooling the overall max heat you can generate also raises per heatsink, once allowing a maximum practical threshold of 136.? Heat. I can't remember the decimal. Basically more than 4 times the alpha heat potential of BT "before cooling". MW3 expansion and MW4 both had hard locked caps of 60 heat. You can see the problem.

Locking the threshold at thirty would solve a lot of problems, but the FLD nature of IS and subsequently the "FLD" of Clan burst fire ACs compared to autocannons of lore (giant MGs so to speak that fire a minimum of 2 shots (203mm AC/20) and a maximum of 100 (30mm AC/20) to get their full rated damage, makes it a problem that ACs would dominate the field in the form PGI has given them (Battletech's"Mech Rifle", basically slow firing tank rounds).

Sadly with any system there is always ways to exploit it.

Damage at 90m and under has the issue of PGI interpreting "minimum accurate range" for PPCs as "no damage". Depending on the source, (FASA early, before Clans: the PPC was huge, heavy, and awkward. FASA and others during 90s and Clans, the PPC has a firing inhibitor (charges to fire slowly) to prevent damage to the user and itself. This delay in firing (minor charge up) can be skipped by turning off the inhibitor but the weapon generates extra heat and might blow up in your face, or at least damage you each time it is fired like that).

PGI didn't look into it. "Minimum range 90 meters? Sure."
Same for IS LRMs.

An ER PPC will fix that.

Anyway, hunchbacks are durable too.

Also using the same topic is good; the title is quite broad.

Edited by Koniving, 26 August 2016 - 04:23 AM.

[Koniving]

Stormcrow.Chase cam by Lordred.

[SpootieBloot]

I am being blocked from hitting "like this" on everyones responses. Thanks though.

I do not understand why an erppc can fire within 90m but a ppc cant. I dont want to seem like a complainer but that doesnt make sense. To me anyway.

I have seen the word "meta" used a few times; "Meta block", "meta cul-de-sac", - what is this?

If I had to choose between a StormCrow, ShadowCat, Hunchback or Centurion, which is the best all round? I liked both the Stormcrow and ShadowCat in battles. I used the Hunchback in the academy but I havent tried the Centurion at all.

I have watched videos for each and it seems the Stormcrow has alot of different loadout options.

Edited by SpootieBloot, 26 August 2016 - 09:02 AM.