58 replies to this topic

[Sunstruck]

Hands down the Jagermech S with 2AC2 2AC5 2 med lasers, is the best lore build that really works in this game I've seen. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/JagerMech
http://imgur.com/JQs6lns - mechlab

Edited by Sunstruck, 26 August 2016 - 11:19 AM.

[SpootieBloot]

I didnt try the Jagermech in battle. The gauss were a pain for me to use in the testing ground. I need more practice maybe.

Your Jagermech works well in battle?

Edited by SpootieBloot, 26 August 2016 - 11:24 AM.

[SnagaDance]

For me the Jenner really captures the feel of its TT counterpart. A fast and maneuverable backstabbing hit-and-run mech with a punch.

Welcome to the game btw.

[oldradagast]

While I can't say I recommend Awesomes for new players, some of them, particularly the ones running energy heavy builds, can be run in "super stock" mode (Double heat sinks, better engine, etc.) while retaining the traditional weapons of lore and do pretty well.

Hunchbacks and Centurions are another set that tend to be similar in setup in MWO and tabletop.

Welcome, and good luck!

[Koniving]

SpootieBloot, on 26 August 2016 - 11:23 AM, said:

I didnt try the Jagermech in battle. The gauss were a pain for me to use in the testing ground. I need more practice maybe.

Your Jagermech works well in battle?

Jager with gauss.


Now for some fun...
Organized group of four with designated roles: One tank, two attackers (I'm DPS and MkMHppy is heavy hitting), one missile spam.


Atlas/Jager pair. You can see the Atlas playing tank for me on a few occasions. This first one's particularly good.

More of those battles. Some good, some meh.

Now those aren't fantastic, but the build is far from optimal. Also during 8vs8.

And this one is using the 'mech as a brawler with a troll build, tanking pretty dang good.

Though a large part of it is the flamers -- which back then most people found them lousy and I found them great... and now people find them good and I hate them. The flamers back then were great for blinding people. The flamers now can't blind anyone but are good for heating up enemies.

I really liked the blinders.
Few of these have good soundtracks, too.

Jagers are pretty sweet. Mainly because ACs are.

Edited by Koniving, 26 August 2016 - 01:11 PM.

[Koniving]

SpootieBloot, on 26 August 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

I am being blocked from hitting "like this" on everyones responses. Thanks though.

I do not understand why an erppc can fire within 90m but a ppc cant. I dont want to seem like a complainer but that doesnt make sense. To me anyway.

I have seen the word "meta" used a few times; "Meta block", "meta cul-de-sac", - what is this?

If I had to choose between a StormCrow, ShadowCat, Hunchback or Centurion, which is the best all round? I liked both the Stormcrow and ShadowCat in battles. I used the Hunchback in the academy but I havent tried the Centurion at all.

I have watched videos for each and it seems the Stormcrow has alot of different loadout options.

All mechs have a plethora of options.

"Meta" is sort of the game within the game to get the "best" stuff to get the best score, or "the only things anyone seriously playing to win should ever use". In other words people full of themselves and robbing any fun out of the game. Most of them just exploit the most abusable mechanics within the game, and since this is always changing the meta changes too.

A meta block I imagine is when people are so blinded by what is said to be meta that they fail to see other potential, including superior potential, since "meta is the only way to play". So perhaps meta block is the box that these "get all the scores" kids get stuck in to the point of being trapped by a very toxic mindset.

Cul de sac sounds like a tour de force? Bundle of tricks, the most meta-ble meta mech?

Anyway silly obsessions aside...
All this below relates to battletech.

PPC and ER PPC and the 90 meter thing.
As mentioned before PGI did basic reading if that on weapons.
PGI saw "90 meter minimum range" on Sarna and that was it.
Meanwhile ER PPC has no minimum.

So as said before, PGI didn't dig into it. Consider...
Minimum accurate range penalty: increased difficulty of hitting a target within this range.
Following weapons have this issue:
Inner Sphere LRMs, always meant to fire at a ballistic angle (up and over), min accurate range is 180 meters. (Just more difficult to hit someone due to having to aim lower and rely on just lobbing missiles at enemy).
AC/2s and all denominations:. Minimum accurate range of 120 meters.
AC/5s of all denominations: minimum range of 90 meters.
AC/10s of all denominations: minimum range of 30 meters.
AC/20 have no minimum range.
Gauss rifle has a minimum range of 60 meters.

But why?
Originally before the harmony gold days, AC/2s and AC/5s were in arms or on body turrets while 10s and 20s were on torsos, so this is part of it. The explanation is that ACs are heavy and hard to quickly move around.... which only makes sense when ac/2 and /5 are hand-held or on arms, since they are half the weight of 10s and 20s. PPCs had a similar issue and the description made no sense.

Gauss Rifles and Standard PPCs became "powered weapons.". Gauss rifle, can blow up in your face while charged/primed. In BT changing its state and recharge times are quite long. In fact there is a specific battle where a twin Gauss user had the timing between each Gauss rifle delayed due to power issues preventing the Clan from firing at the same time. The time between pulling the trigger and firing is pretty short once the gun is primed however, a 7-8 second ordeal.

PPCs could blow up in your face and so the inhibitor slows it down. Lord's Light is a PPC known for its two second firing delay which does quite a light show before firing. Thing is the PPC only actually weighs 2.5 tons including the barrel and standard capacitors, the rest is weapon mounted heatsinks, cooling and power cables, and the inhibitor.
ER PPCs put less weight into the cooling jackets and instead focus them on making the weapon's frame thicker and better able to handle it's naturally fast prime to fire rate (of less than 0.5 seconds between trigger pull and fire). This way it won't blow up and is able to fire quickly, but has a 50% increase in total heat generated!

Thus why it has a 90 meter minimum (accurate) range; try hitting something fast with a charge up weapon like the Gauss up close at 90 meters or less. PPCs are supposed to have a somewhat longer firing delay in Battletech and yet even with a quick charge up it is difficult isn't it?

ACs just have an issue with calculating for convergence and environmental conditions when firing on your target (this issue is that it isn't instant). AC/10s and AC/20s are giant MGs in BT with insane firing rates (the highest common caliber between AC/5 through 20 is 120mm, which the Whirlwind/5 shoots "a painfully slow" 3-4 shots per second and needs 3 shots to get its 5 damage, the weapon can overheat to possible barrel or mechanism damage and jamming if fired for too long without rest. Meanwhile the AC/10 delivers twice that firepower without issues (but has them if it goes for 4* it), and the AC/20 can do twice the AC/10 in the same amount of time with no issue at all. Firing that fast let's you "bleed" the bullets over your target without having to stop firing before you made significant hits. This is why the smaller ACs have minimum (accurate) ranges while the big one does not.

Again though, PGI looked at it most likely on Sarna and said "We can't use all the minimum ranges from tabletop because it makes no sense bullets don't just not do damage leaving the barrel"
...Actual quote from 2012. Clearly showing a lack of understanding or comprehension of what the minimum accurate range penalties were for, to reflect the difficulty of hitting fast, nimble machines at close range with heavy weaponry.

(Edit: Sarna.net not santa)

Edited by Koniving, 27 August 2016 - 09:29 AM.

[SpootieBloot]

I think I see what youre saying.

I tried to hit a couple of light mechs with the ppcs on the Vindicator -- FAIL. I then fired at a bigger slower mech who charged me and took no damage.

So instead of taking into account the difficulty of hitting a fast mover with ppcs close range, they just made it so that anything within the minimum range takes no damage? THAT is why they charged me then and I forced me to do a "tactical retreat" a.k.a. haul butt.

[Koniving]

SpootieBloot, on 27 August 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

I think I see what youre saying.

I tried to hit a couple of light mechs with the ppcs on the Vindicator -- FAIL. I then fired at a bigger slower mech who charged me and took no damage.

So instead of taking into account the difficulty of hitting a fast mover with ppcs close range, they just made it so that anything within the minimum range takes no damage? THAT is why they charged me then and I forced me to do a "tactical retreat" a.k.a. haul butt.

Exactly.
Me and several others have 'fought tooth and nail' about this issue with PGI for a while, and we're "on an island." o.O; In the grand scheme of things it is a pretty minor issue to work around. Personally I like lugging two PPCs; one standard and one ER. That way I have 'something'.
Alternatively, fill all the other slots with small lasers. That'll fix someone's ***.

An example build.
They'll have a hard time when they pull that again.

Edited by Koniving, 27 August 2016 - 09:39 AM.

[SpootieBloot]

I wish the trial had that loadout.

I read on a site that the Blackjacks are a really good bang for the buck. They are pretty cheap and have high set weapons. Would you guys recommend them for a rookie? I am really liking the high set weapons on the Battlemaster trial right now, but I like the maneuverability of the mediums.

[SpootieBloot]

Metamechs.com was the site.

It recommended to get the Black Knight, Banshee and Blackjack as a core then other useful mechs were listed after. It had a link to the Blackjack master page. I am drawn to the high weapon mounts and I will buy them.

Thanks for the welcome and advice. See you out there!

[Void Angel]

SpootieBloot, on 23 August 2016 - 03:48 AM, said:

Hello! Pleasure to meet everyone.

I noticed there is already a thread asking for advice in buying a first mech. I really didnt want to start another and make you guys repeat everything.

My question is = Which mech, in your opinion, made the best transition from TT/lore to the battlefields of MWO?

Background info -- I wore out the old Mechwarrior snes game, (srm spam FTW!) then became interested in the lore of the Battletech universe. I Played the tabletop game a few times with friends and bought MW 2 and 4 because I liked the SNES version so much. I never played a MW game against any other players until now. I learned the basics of mech movement/fighting from them though.

I like the training academy they put in this game. I used every mech available to try different classes. I really like the Catapults they had.

I chose a name that I hoped would be memorable, while also showing that I do not take myself too seriously.

None of them. The game format here necessitated significant deviations from the tabletop rules, which in turn altered way good tabletop builds used to work. If you want to try to relive tabletop builds, you'll generally be in for a bad day. Most builds from tabletop aren't going to work well, because many of them were unfocused.

That being said, the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow are very strong 'mechs: among, if not the, best in their weight classes. On the Inner Sphere side the Warhammer, Marauder, and Thunderbolts all work well, as do the Shadowhawks, Hunchbacks, and Blackjacks. Much of it depends on what you want, but using the tier lists (with a grain of salt) over at Metamechs should give you an idea of how well a chassis is regarded.

[Koniving]

SpootieBloot, on 27 August 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

I wish the trial had that loadout.

I read on a site that the Blackjacks are a really good bang for the buck. They are pretty cheap and have high set weapons. Would you guys recommend them for a rookie? I am really liking the high set weapons on the Battlemaster trial right now, but I like the maneuverability of the mediums.

They are pretty fun.
These are some customized loadouts, but are pre-quirks. So they're actually better than you see here....then again so is everything else.
BJ-1X (the experimental testbed before the official Blackjacks of lore. PGI gave it a huge engine cap.) (Music is a version of Ninja Re Bang Bang; note if you look this song up it is at your own risk. Weird to watch; best to watch AMV versions as they are equally weird but more fitting to the song itself.)

BJ-1 (armed with twin UAC/5s and a small laser, XL 180 engine and plenty of ammo). (Music from classic Homeworld and Homeworld 2.)


Cockpit snake jokes from previous videos refer to this snake.

[SpootieBloot]

Thanks. I want to copy that small pulse laser build on the 1X.

[Koniving]

SpootieBloot, on 28 August 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

Thanks. I want to copy that small pulse laser build on the 1X.

Biggest XL engine you can shove in, as many pulse lasers as you have Hardpoints for, max out armor on all but cockpit, and cram in double heatsinks til full. Pretty simple one really.

Edited by Koniving, 28 August 2016 - 11:48 AM.

[Xaat Xuun]

SpootieBloot, on 27 August 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

I think I see what youre saying.

I tried to hit a couple of light mechs with the ppcs on the Vindicator -- FAIL. I then fired at a bigger slower mech who charged me and took no damage.

So instead of taking into account the difficulty of hitting a fast mover with ppcs close range, they just made it so that anything within the minimum range takes no damage? THAT is why they charged me then and I forced me to do a "tactical retreat" a.k.a. haul butt.

kind of reminds me of the movie 'Hunt for Red October', where they turn into the Torpedoes, to avoid getting hit (exploded) then the other sub capt sez remove all safeties so that don't happen again.

So maybe you just need to remove all safeties

[SpootieBloot]

Xaat Xuun, on 28 August 2016 - 01:53 PM, said:

kind of reminds me of the movie 'Hunt for Red October', where they turn into the Torpedoes, to avoid getting hit (exploded) then the other sub capt sez remove all safeties so that don't happen again.

So maybe you just need to remove all safeties

Lol. *checking console for safety override*

My comment about the damage removal within 90m on the ppcs sounded disrespectful. I didnt mean it to be.

[Koniving]

SpootieBloot, on 28 August 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

Lol. *checking console for safety override*

My comment about the damage removal within 90m on the ppcs sounded disrespectful. I didnt mean it to be.

I didn't view it as such. I digress I also found it difficult to comprehend, then again I didn't bother much about it at first due to the way it was animated originally. The effect would start when you pulled the trigger but couldn't fire until permission was given by the server -- and back then there was no lag compensation -- and so it looked like it had to charge before releasing. I eventually learned this was a bug due to network lag and while it was cool, turning to see a PPC blast fired in the air would show the effect floating stationary in the air before it "grew" and then suddenly launched forward at incredible speeds (2000 meters per second back then).

Just wow.

[SpootieBloot]

I think it would be cool to see a charge mechanism on the ppcs/erppcs that builds up and looks cool while doing it. Kind of like the gauss charge setup (which I am horrible with.)

Edited by SpootieBloot, 29 August 2016 - 01:57 PM.

[Koniving]

Always imagined a tap-to-charge mechanic rather than a hold-to-charge mechanic. Being unlimited ammo there isn't a reason not to use a tap-to-charge.

A tap-to-charge mechanic is where you tap the trigger and it charges up...and once charged it fires on its own without further interaction from you.

Saw someone's"Zero-G" battle animation.... which very plainly had gravity rather than actual magnetic boots/feet... anyway. It inspired me up again to pick up a project I had put down. Making models and animations for a "how I picture Battletech" sort of animation/video.

Charge up PPCs are definitely gonna be in it.