170 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

So far, my experience with XL-Engine for my King Crab is quite debilitating, that one torso and then my mech is dead immediately.

I suppose that the XL-Engine isn't really for front-line build? Although my other mechs are Clan, which have XL-engines but would survive one-torso destroyed, whereas IS wouldn't. Simply they are too vulnerable when equipped with XL-Engine. In larger mechs, like assaults, they have large hitboxes compared to smaller mechs, making them the least advisable mechs to be equipped with XL engines.

But does anybody even use STD-360 engines? Those weigh so much.

I think it would be fair that it would take 4 destroyed critical engine slots than 3 to down a mech. That way it would be the same for the Clan by destroying both torso, just as the IS, without altering the size of the XL critical slots on the torso.

UPDATE: August 27, 2016

As suggested by several members, LFE or Light-Fusion Engines could be another way to solve this. Another type of engine that has the same amount of critical slots as the Clan XL -- which is two on each side torso than three. But middle ground in terms of weight between Standard and XL.

Another take in this, since King Crab has an overwhelming disadvantage; aggravated by immense hit-box and slow movement speed, I propose to increase the tonnage of the King Crab and maximum armor point, perhaps an additional 5, 10, 15, or 20 tons of extra armor; 160, 320, 480, 640 points of armor.

That way, people have many options, that they can invest with better armor, better engine, or better firepower.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 26 August 2016 - 11:43 PM.

[El Bandito]

For the King Crab? Std 360 is too much--try 325. For energy only mechs such as the Banshee? It is doable.

That said, PGI really needs to balance IS XL and CLan XL 1 to 1. Clan XL is part of a the reason why Clan mechs are so successful in the leaderboards.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 August 2016 - 06:26 AM.

[TKSax]

El Bandito, on 23 August 2016 - 06:17 AM, said:

For the King Crab? Std 360 is too much. For energy only mechs such as the Banshee? It is doable.

That said, PGI really needs to balance IS XL and CLan XL 1 to 1. Clan XL is part of a the reason why Clan mechs are so successful in the leaderboards.

I would bever run an XL engine in a Crab, its side torso can be hit far too easily.

[Lily from animove]

I gues not, the extra speed form that start to limit the pew pew, and thats more important than the puny delta a 360 delivers comapred to a 300.

But damn the challange made me pilot my atlas again and geeeses, STD's OP, losing ST's without penalty and still stomping around is so LAWL. I wihs I couldslap a STD in my direwolf. I really know nnow why I don't play clan asaults, the only ones with chickenlegs have XL's and that sucks even if clan XL. Nothing delivers as Assault feeling much as the durability of a STD.

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

I would bever run an XL engine in a Crab, its side torso can be hit far too easily.

this even if it were a clan XL it owuld suck compared to an STD.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 August 2016 - 06:21 AM.

[El Bandito]

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

I would bever run an XL engine in a Crab, its side torso can be hit far too easily.

Std 325 is what I would run.

Lily from animove, on 23 August 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

I gues not, the extra speed form that start to limit the pew pew, and thats more important than the puny delta a 360 delivers comapred to a 300.

But damn the challange made me pilot my atlas again and geeeses, STD's OP, losing ST's without penalty and still stomping around is so LAWL. I wihs I couldslap a STD in my direwolf. I really know nnow why I don't play clan asaults, the only ones with chickenlegs have XL's and that sucks even if clan XL. Nothing delivers as Assault feeling much as the durability of a STD.

If you lose both STs, you might as well be a noncombatant in most cases. Unless there is some slot issue with certain weapons, I would always pick Clan XL over Std engine.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 August 2016 - 06:26 AM.

[TheArisen]

The KC has big torsos, if you go XL your build better be a support build.

Clan XLs are different from IS XLs.

[Appogee]

XLs are great.

But not in a King Crab.

[The6thMessenger]

Wouldn't it be fair if the XL-engine works like the clan? After all, that's already 1-less torso to kill you.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 August 2016 - 06:33 AM.

[TKSax]

The6thMessenger, on 23 August 2016 - 06:31 AM, said:

Wouldn't it be fair if the XL-engine works like the clan?

Fair yes, but adds flavor to the game. I really don't find IS XL engines that big of a deal. You just have to be careful on what mechs your run them in. Also most clan mechs cannot change their engine so they have no choice but to run an XL.

[EvilCow]

They should introduce LFEs for IS, problem (partially) solved.

[The6thMessenger]

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 06:33 AM, said:

Fair yes, but adds flavor to the game. I really don't find IS XL engines that big of a deal. You just have to be careful on what mechs your run them in. Also most clan mechs cannot change their engine so they have no choice but to run an XL.

I honestly don't want that kind of flavor if it's fair. Weapons of IS is already much cumbersome than the Clan. As well as they cannot use Omnipods, which prevents that insane versatility OmniMechs offer. Anyways IS and Clan has their own strengths and weaknesses. It's just that this is too much of a vulnerability, and since you said that it's fair to have the IS XL work like Clan XL, this current setup is unfair.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 August 2016 - 06:43 AM.

[El Bandito]

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 06:33 AM, said:

Fair yes, but adds flavor to the game. I really don't find IS XL engines that big of a deal. You just have to be careful on what mechs your run them in. Also most clan mechs cannot change their engine so they have no choice but to run an XL.

But Clan mechs that can change engines still run XL, and be on top of leaderboards, such as the Kodiak, the HBK-IIC, and Jenner-IIC. They all run CXL for their top builds. Not Std.

EvilCow, on 23 August 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

They should introduce LFEs for IS, problem (partially) solved.

LFE will basically obsolete the IS Std engine, not be the replacement for IS XL. As I said, losing both STs would mean one is considered non-combatant in most cases. PGI can add it and see how it goes.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 August 2016 - 06:41 AM.

[TKSax]

The6thMessenger, on 23 August 2016 - 06:38 AM, said:

I honestly don't want that kind of flavor if it's fair. Weapons of IS is already much cumbersome than the Clan. As well as they cannot use Omnipods. Anyways IS and Clan has their own strengths and weaknesses. It's just that this is too much of a vulnerability.

Clan vs IS balance is as close as it has been in recent years at least until the rescal. The recent rescale hurt some of the top performing IS mechs as well as a few nerfs mechs, but IS still can compete just fine with Clans

El Bandito, on 23 August 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

But Clan mechs that can change engines still run XL, and be on top of leaderboards, such as the Kodiak, the HBK-IIC, and Jenner-IIC. They all run CXL for their top builds. Not Std.

I know, but those are the outliers there are for more Omnimechs than Battlemechs. I want balance but I just don't like the idea of changing the IS XL's. I mean I run around in a Dual orGuass Warhammer with and XL engine in it, and I have no real issues unless I do something stupid. With some of the structure quirks the IS mechs have the are very XL friendly and I think that is an ok way to handle the difference, but obviously there still needs to be some balance adjustments always.

[EvilCow]

El Bandito, on 23 August 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

LFE will basically obsolete the IS Std engine, not be the replacement for IS XL.

And what is the problem? LFEs are meant to obsolete them. STDs would still have some use in assaults.

[Kotzi]

I would just use engines according to my loadout. Long range XL, close combat and torsotwist no XL. With some exceptions though but thats mechspecific.

[El Bandito]

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 06:46 AM, said:

I know, but those are the outliers there are for more Omnimechs than Battlemechs. I want balance but I just don't like the idea of changing the IS XL's. I mean I run around in a Dual orGuass Warhammer with and XL engine in it, and I have no real issues unless I do something stupid. With some of the structure quirks the IS mechs have the are very XL friendly and I think that is an ok way to handle the difference, but obviously there still needs to be some balance adjustments always.

IS XL doesn't have to be exactly like Clan XL, but they need to be more on par with each other, through some other means. Current heat and speed penalty for CXL is way better prospect than instant death for IS XL.

EvilCow, on 23 August 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

And what is the problem? LFEs are meant to obsolete them. STDs would still have some use in assaults.

The problem is that even LFE will still not be as good as CXL.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 August 2016 - 06:53 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 06:46 AM, said:

Clan vs IS balance is as close as it has been in recent years at least until the rescal. The recent rescale hurt some of the top performing IS mechs as well as a few nerfs mechs, but IS still can compete just fine with Clans

But still, you admitted that it is fair. So it follows that the current setup is quite unfair. Besides, if the rescale did hurt the top-performing IS mechs, shouldn't they actually try to level it? after all, balance? What is IS supposed to be Nightmare-mode in playing MWO?

IS is even already debilitated with weaponry.

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 06:46 AM, said:

I know, but those are the outliers there are for more Omnimechs than Battlemechs. I want balance but I just don't like the idea of changing the IS XL's. I mean I run around in a Dual orGuass Warhammer with and XL engine in it, and I have no real issues unless I do something stupid. With some of the structure quirks the IS mechs have the are very XL friendly and I think that is an ok way to handle the difference, but obviously there still needs to be some balance adjustments always.

That is on you if you don't like it, however if you don't like the idea of changing IS XL for balance, then you are against balance. If it's fair to have it function like the clan, then it's unfair otherwise.

Perhaps there could be negative-quirks?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 August 2016 - 06:59 AM.

[EvilCow]

El Bandito, on 23 August 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

The problem is that even LFE will still not be as good as CXL.

You are moving the target

And again, what would be the problem? LFEs would be closer to clan XLs without being equivalents, exactly what is needed.

Ligt and fast Mediums would use XLs.
Mediums, Heavies and some Assaults would use LFEs.
Some Assaults could use STDs where space constrained.

It would be a strikingly good compromise.

Edited by EvilCow, 23 August 2016 - 07:19 AM.

[Crushko]

The6thMessenger, on 23 August 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

So far, my experience with XL-Engine for my King Crab is quite debilitating, that one torso and then my mech is dead immediately.

Yea King Crab is one of those mechs that always losses a side torso. So XL engine seems not to be an option. However losing a side torso is so punishing (usually minimum 50 % of your firepower is gone) that without a torso you wont do that much anyway, dead or alive.

That said Im certainly in favour for reducing the IS XL engine drawbacks, especially insta death.

[TKSax]

The6thMessenger, on 23 August 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

But still, you admitted that it is fair. So it follows that the current setup is quite unfair. Besides, if the rescale did hurt the top-performing IS mechs, shouldn't they actually try to level it? after all, balance? What is IS supposed to be Nightmare-mode in playing MWO?

IS is even already debilitated with weaponry.

Is is not Nightmare-mode, balance is very close as is, I see no reason to change Clan XLs to be like is or vise versa. Leader board aside thier are plenty of mechs that are as good as clans mechs as they are now. Your King Crab is not one of them, it can't even compete with the top IS Assualts, much less the Top clan asssualts,

The6thMessenger, on 23 August 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

That is on you if you don't like it, however if you don't like the idea of changing IS XL for balance, then you are against balance. If it's fair to have it function like the clan, then it's unfair otherwise.

Perhaps there could be negative-quirks?

If you want absolute fairness then give everyone 1 mech that is non-customizable with the same weapons. That is boring, but that is the only wait it will be "fair". IS mechs have lots of structure quircks that you can run XL engines in just fine and "fair" with mechs that run Clan XL's.