170 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

Is is not Nightmare-mode, balance is very close as is, I see no reason to change Clan XLs to be like is or vise versa. Leader board aside thier are plenty of mechs that are as good as clans mechs as they are now. Your King Crab is not one of them, it can't even compete with the top IS Assualts, much less the Top clan asssualts,

Well, i do see a reason -- because it is unfair. As you said, it is fair to make it function as the Clan XL, so it is unfair otherwise.

If so, shouldn't it be modified to compete? What's the point of having King-Crabs anyways if they're useless junks?

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

If you want absolute fairness then give everyone 1 mech that is non-customizable with the same weapons. That is boring, but that is the only wait it will be "fair". IS mechs have lots of structure quircks that you can run XL engines in just fine and "fair" with mechs that run Clan XL's.

Hey, since we're going overboard into absurdity, why don't we add Demons into the sci-fi mix of MWO? It's if they want sci-fi fiction, let's get weird. I also want Nirvash Type-Zero, so i could surf in the air and go Seven-Swell and auto-win. Let's also add Optimus-Prime and Megatron, with Voltes V, Daimos, and Macross. Also Zoids, i always wanted to pilot a Geno-Breaker, and have my own Organoid.

Since we're having mech classes, we should add 200-ton Mega-Assaults and 300-mph speed Extra-lights!

Seriously though, is that your approach all the time? Creators, whether games, stories, they have lines that they draw for each creations, that they do not cross so it wouldn't be absurd.

But i don't want absolute fairness. I want relative fairness, that IS isn't too debilitated by XL Engines. A small nudge to give IS better chance that doesn't hurt the balancing of the game, after all it is "fair" as you put it.

Of course there could be a divide between IS and Clan mechs, but that XL Engine vulnerability is too much flavor for IS, as IS is already wracked with it's own issues like cumbersome weaponries and inability to change hardpoints etc, etc. And it's fair to do so.

IS mechs are supposed to be a challenge in the first place, flavor, then IS is obviously hard-mode for MWO, no other way to put it.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 August 2016 - 07:35 AM.

[Sader325]

http://imgur.com/a/iuSJs

5 King Crabs - 5 XL 360's/350's

Four Mechs /Two Variants (KGC-000 / KGC - 000B) average 500 damage a game over 500 games in solo queue.

Last Mech / One Varient (KGC-0000) is my brawler which averages 380 damage a game, the riskiest build I have, but still worth it when you're able to alpha someone for 82 damage three times before you overheat.


I'll take my XL, you keep your standard.

[TKSax]

The6thMessenger, on 23 August 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

Well, i do see a reason -- because it is unfair. As you said, it is fair to make it function as the Clan XL, so it is unfair otherwise.

If so, shouldn't it be modified to compete? What's the point of having King-Crabs anyways if they're useless junks?

I will say it again
IS mechs have been adjusted, a lot of the have huge Structure Quirks to compensate for this.

The6thMessenger, on 23 August 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

Hey, since we're going overboard into absurdity, why don't we add Demons into the sci-fi mix of MWO? It's if they want sci-fi fiction, let's get weird. I also want Nirvash Type-Zero, so i could surf and go Seven-Swell and auto-win. Let's also add Optimus-Prime and Megatron, with Voltes V, Daimos, and Macross.

Seriously though, is that your approach all the time?

But i don't want absolute fairness. I want relative fairness, that IS isn't too debilitated by XL Engines. A small nudge to give IS better chance that doesn't hurt the balancing of the game, after all it is "fair" as you put it.

IS mechs are supposed to be a challenge in the first place, flavor, then IS is obviously hard-mode for MWO, no other way to put it.

You are the one being absurd, you did not asked a good question's and I have been answering to the best of my ability.

We have relative fairness now as I said above and before lots of IS mechs have structure quirks and armor quirks which allows them to run IX engines much better than they used to.. Both IS and Clans have their challenges, no side is superior to the other. I played IS when the Clans were first introduced when Clans were truley superior and IS was hard mode, we are no where near that now.

Here I am in a 1v1 against a clan mech running and IS mech with an XL.

https://youtu.be/T8MyPeuRsjs?t=45s

Edited by TKSax, 23 August 2016 - 07:53 AM.

[Sader325]

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

I will say it again
IS mechs have been adjusted, a lot of the have huge Structure Quirks to compensate for this.



You are the one being absurd, you did not asked a good question's and I have been answering to the best of my ability.

We have relative fairness now as I said above and before lots of IS mechs have structure quirks and armor quirks which allows them to run IX engines much better than they used to.. Both IS and Clans have their challenges, no side is superior to the other. I played IS when the Clans were first introduced when Clans were truley superior and IS was hard mode, we are no where near that now.

Here I am in a 1v1 against a clan mech running and IS mech with an XL.

https://youtu.be/T8MyPeuRsjs?t=45s

King Crabs do not have any structure quirks, they work with XL engines regardless.

Appogee, on 23 August 2016 - 06:26 AM, said:

XLs are great.

Especially in a King Crab.

Fixed that for you.

[TKSax]

Sader325, on 23 August 2016 - 07:52 AM, said:

King Crabs do not have any structure quirks, they work with XL engines regardless.

True, and Honestly I have run XL's in my kings crabs also, it not something I recommend for new Pilots. We all know there is a Skill to doing that.

Edited by TKSax, 23 August 2016 - 07:56 AM.

[627]

XL in king crab works like in every other mech, you can hve the same discussion with marauders. Fact is, the XL gives you so much more mobility and firepower that it is totally worth it if you keep some distance.

I mean it is the very definition of glass cannon and it works in MWO. Think gauss/boomjager. Everyone knows you can take em out with 3 alphas max but you still see them a lot.

[El Bandito]

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

If you want absolute fairness then give everyone 1 mech that is non-customizable with the same weapons. That is boring, but that is the only wait it will be "fair". IS mechs have lots of structure quircks that you can run XL engines in just fine and "fair" with mechs that run Clan XL's.

The goal here is to reduce the reliance on quirks by making the techs equal but different.

[TKSax]

El Bandito, on 23 August 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

The goal here is to reduce the reliance on quirks by making the techs equal but different.

Whose goal is that? Personally, I don't mind things like structure/Armor quirks so IS can run XL's. I would like to see some of the absurd weapon and movement quirks.But structure/armor quirks don't bother me.

[The6thMessenger]

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

I will say it again
IS mechs have been adjusted, a lot of the have huge Structure Quirks to compensate for this.

Yeah, but it doesn't compensate enough.

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

You are the one being absurd, you did not asked a good question's and I have been answering to the best of my ability.

No, you're the one being absurd. I never said i wanted absolute fairness, i asked, somewhat, if it can be changed without unbalancing the game, it is after all fair to do so. So far your only issue is "flavor".

And you answered by exaggerating.

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

We have relative fairness now as I said above and before lots of IS mechs have structure quirks and armor quirks which allows them to run IX engines much better than they used to.. Both IS and Clans have their challenges, no side is superior to the other. I played IS when the Clans were first introduced when Clans were truley superior and IS was hard mode, we are no where near that now.

Sure, but it's still relatively fair to adjust the XL IS engine, without unbalancing the game. So far it's just what you want, flavor, but what about what everyone else wants?

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

Here I am in a 1v1 against a clan mech running and IS mech with an XL.

https://youtu.be/T8MyPeuRsjs?t=45s

Okay, cool. But you do know that one game, and one player does not represent what the rest can't or cannot do right?

Besides, that's a grasshopper, not even a King-Crab, Assaults are waaaaaay vulnerable because of their inherent slowness, especially with King-Crabs large body. The next game is an Orion. The Warhammer is using STD engine, else it should have died with only one torso. Shown in 8:53.

TKSax, on 23 August 2016 - 08:00 AM, said:

Whose goal is that? Personally, I don't mind things like structure/Armor quirks so IS can run XL's. I would like to see some of the absurd weapon and movement quirks.But structure/armor quirks don't bother me.

The thing is that, you don't. What about other people? They play too.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 August 2016 - 08:06 AM.

[Almond Brown]

The6thMessenger, on 23 August 2016 - 06:31 AM, said:

Wouldn't it be fair if the XL-engine works like the clan? After all, that's already 1-less torso to kill you.

That depends on after the XL change was made, what would your next Clan "unfair" item become?

Can I get Clan DHS's for my IS Mechs please. Obviously 3 slots vs 2 slots for the same 1t ain't fair either right?

Edited by Almond Brown, 23 August 2016 - 08:09 AM.

[Khobai]

I have always advocated for both IS-XL and C-XL to survive side torso destruction

because it makes IS and Clan mechs much closer to being balanced


And simply give STD engines a considerable buff so STD engines remain worthwhile to consider

Quote

Can I get Clan DHS's for my IS Mechs please. Obviously 3 slots vs 2 slots for the same 1t ain't fair either right?

It is fair since IS mechs get super quirks and clan mechs dont.

By making XL engines equal you can remove some of those ******** structure quirks though and balance the game better

Edited by Khobai, 23 August 2016 - 08:12 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

I'm all for making IS XL behave like clan XL. In theory you're making a choice: damage vs durability. In practice, not being able to safely run XL just means the mech is probably bad, and it was that way before clans, too.

[Clownwarlord]

In heavies and assaults the xl engine for inner sphere mechs is very bad. This is because with your heavier mechs you have bigger hit boxes, you still move slow, and then the xl is easily destroyed with the lose of one side torso. On mediums and lights it is not as bad because your speed and bad hit reg can protect you.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The6thMessenger, on 23 August 2016 - 06:38 AM, said:

As well as they cannot use Omnipods, which prevents that insane versatility OmniMechs offer.

Omnipods only offer versatility if the mech was designed for it, the Viper and Ice Ferret for example are not versatile.

[The6thMessenger]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 August 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

Omnipods only offer versatility if the mech was designed for it, the Viper and Ice Ferret for example are not versatile.

Well, compare that to the general IS Battlemechs, to Clan Omnimechs? Of course Omnimechs -- in general -- are versatile compared to IS Battlemechs.

[Gentleman Reaper]

If we want to balance engines then most engines should get quirks:

STD: CT structure buffs, allowing for strong zombie builds, maybe ST structure too

IS XL: ST structure buffs, so that it's noticeable harder to lose your precious ST than on the Clan XL

Clan XL: No quirks, and maybe on top of its torso-loss penalties it gets a hit to draw regen, making it very difficult to fight after you lose it.

LFE: no quirks, little to no penalty for torso loss, so that it can better stand up to Clan XL since it gives less weight savings. (33% vs 50%)

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Almond Brown, on 23 August 2016 - 08:08 AM, said:

That depends on after the XL change was made, what would your next Clan "unfair" item become?

Can I get Clan DHS's for my IS Mechs please. Obviously 3 slots vs 2 slots for the same 1t ain't fair either right?

I don't have the numbers on hand, but they don't have the same stats anymore.

[Mcgral18]

EvilCow, on 23 August 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

They should introduce LFEs for IS, problem (partially) solved.

XL normalization > MOAR Power Creep and Legacy Tech creating items

[Countess]

El Bandito, on 23 August 2016 - 06:17 AM, said:

For the King Crab? Std 360 is too much--try 325. For energy only mechs such as the Banshee? It is doable.

That said, PGI really needs to balance IS XL and CLan XL 1 to 1. Clan XL is part of a the reason why Clan mechs are so successful in the leaderboards.

Considering XL is a MUST have in pretty much all lights including the Urbie, yeah. I mean, I never ever experienced any component loss in a light because when that happens you're literally dead. I'd like to feel 3 of my 4 weapons gone and still try to kick it with that and ECM instead of insta-death. I've heard in the lore that XL does not mean you're dead with one side torso gone, but that the engine is vulnerable once that happens. If clans don't die from 1 side torso gone, why us?

Edited by Countess, 23 August 2016 - 08:40 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The6thMessenger, on 23 August 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

Well, compare that to the general IS Battlemechs, to Clan Omnimechs? Of course Omnimechs -- in general -- are versatile compared to IS Battlemechs.

Not really, because so many are handicapped by limitations imposed by construction rules that they are forced to do a specific role or set of hardpoints (because those are the best).