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How Worried Should I Be About Ammo With This Setup?


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#1 Whiskey Dharma

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 02:18 PM

SHD-2D2

AC/10 with 3 tons ammo
4xSRM4 with 5 tons of ammo

no other weapons.

Normally I would add 1 ML, but that would require me to lose more tonnage to armor the arms.

#2 Exard3k

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 02:33 PM

plenty of ammo.

I always go for 2-2,5ton for an AC10 and about one ton per SRM4.

But it's all about how much of your ammo is actually hitting the target. If you want to snapfire the AC10s at everything around ~500m, get more than 2tons. same with SRMs....


Advice: start with lower amount of ammo (2x AC10 ammo, 4x SRM ammo) and bigger engines. increase ammo and downgrade engine if you feel you run out of ammo on a regular basis. Instead of bigger engine you may as well get 2x medium laser.

And remember...when your last AC10 bullet kills the last enemy mech, tonnage choice for ammo was perfect Posted Image

Edited by Exard3k, 25 August 2016 - 02:45 PM.


#3 Wedge Red Leader

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 06:41 PM

I'd say you have enough ammo. I'd say you could start with one less ton on both the AC10 and SRMs, that said I wouldn't bother with adding a ML.

#4 TercieI

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 07:11 PM

View PostWhiskey Dharma, on 25 August 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

SHD-2D2

AC/10 with 3 tons ammo
4xSRM4 with 5 tons of ammo

no other weapons.

Normally I would add 1 ML, but that would require me to lose more tonnage to armor the arms.


2 tons is 40 AC10 shots. If you get through that, you did good. I'd lose the third ton for DHS, engine, JJ, etc. 5 tons for 4SRM4s is perfect IMO.

#5 Void Angel

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 07:50 PM

Ammo is fine - but have you discovered Smurfy's Mechlab? It's a great reference site, with everything from equipment stats to the MechLab itself - you've been around long enough that you might know, but not everyone has played for the whole time since their account creation. In any case, the linked build is my 2H; it requires that you torso twist well, but the Shadowhawk has good hitboxes for that - even with the huge AC shoulder.

However, none of us can give you more than a rough idea of whether you have too much or too little ammunition - it depends on your pilot skills. The amount of ammunition you need will vary based on the 'mech, and will generally fall as you gain skill. That build is a good starting point, but to determine if you need to add or remove ammo (or any equipment,) you should simply pay attention to how well it's working. Do you always have a lot of ammo left over? Swap some of it out for a heat sink, jump jet, or larger engine - depending on your other needs. Use the same iterative process with all aspects of your build: do you get killed from behind a lot? Overheat? Can't get up onto things with the jump jets like you want? Make a change and see if it works better for a few matches.

Edited by Void Angel, 25 August 2016 - 07:52 PM.


#6 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 10:51 PM

I agree with the consensus, you should have plenty of ammo, if you want an ML (not that 1 ML will help much) I would drop 1 ton of SRM ammo, I usually go 1 ton of ammo for 4 SRM tubes and that will last me most of the match, remember if you never run out of ammo you are wasting tonnage you could use for something else (engine, heat sinks, more/bigger weapons, Active probe to name a few options)

#7 Audacious Aubergine

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 11:03 PM

Depends on your cause of worry - is it running out, having too much, or having some of it explode prematurely from crit hits?

#8 Whiskey Dharma

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 03:58 AM

Running out. This is my first build with no lasers, and I don't want to be "that guy" who can't finish a match for the team because I've fired all my ammo.

I actually dropped from a 275XL to a 265XL for more ammo; in 6-7 games I haven't run out yet, but I did get an SRM ammo warning once. That was a pretty high damage game (>700).

Thanks for the advice; I may go back to the 275 and see what happens.

#9 Old-dirty B

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 04:37 AM

View PostWhiskey Dharma, on 26 August 2016 - 03:58 AM, said:

Running out. This is my first build with no lasers, and I don't want to be "that guy" who can't finish a match for the team because I've fired all my ammo.

I actually dropped from a 275XL to a 265XL for more ammo; in 6-7 games I haven't run out yet, but I did get an SRM ammo warning once. That was a pretty high damage game (>700).

Thanks for the advice; I may go back to the 275 and see what happens.


My rule of thumb is 3 tons ammo per AC and 1 ton ammo per SRM. In the end the amount is not that important rather what you do with it. If you snapshot at everything that moves, spread out your damage over the whole enemy team and all of their components you will run out, perhaps with lots of damage but also without being all that efficient. The more focussed and concentrated your shots are, the more precision shot placement you have, allows you to bring less ammo whilst still being just or even more effective in favour for perhaps more amor, more speed via a bigger engine or more firepower trough more weapons.

Edited by B3R3ND, 26 August 2016 - 04:38 AM.


#10 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 04:42 AM

I do not remember if the warning is set to 20 or 25% but if you have only dropped to 20% ammo on SRMS once in 7 games, that means you can safely reduce all ammo by 20%.

If you never run out you are brining too much, on a build with no energy weapons bring enough that you will usually be about empty at match end if you finish the match

#11 TercieI

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 08:30 AM

View PostWhiskey Dharma, on 26 August 2016 - 03:58 AM, said:

Running out. This is my first build with no lasers, and I don't want to be "that guy" who can't finish a match for the team because I've fired all my ammo.

I actually dropped from a 275XL to a 265XL for more ammo; in 6-7 games I haven't run out yet, but I did get an SRM ammo warning once. That was a pretty high damage game (>700).

Thanks for the advice; I may go back to the 275 and see what happens.


Don't worry about being that guy. Worry about being the guy who brought a badly designed mech instead. A properly built ammo dependent mech should run out in very good games and should hit the 25% warning in good games. That's the nature of the beast. You drive more wins by being tightly optimized than by having a safety net of extra ammo.

#12 ImperialKnight

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 09:27 AM

something like this would probably be more effective than an AC10/4xSRM4 build

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...62aeed75df4c459

it also kind of solves your ammo conundrum

Edited by knightsljx, 26 August 2016 - 09:27 AM.


#13 Whiskey Dharma

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 12:23 PM

View Postknightsljx, on 26 August 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

something like this would probably be more effective than an AC10/4xSRM4 build

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...62aeed75df4c459

it also kind of solves your ammo conundrum


Thanks, I'll give that a shot.

#14 jss78

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 01:25 PM

Personally I'd probably go 2 tons (40 shots) for the AC/10, 4 tons (25 salvos) for the SRM/4's. Maybe a fifth ton for the SRM's to play it safe.

But all of the people talking about "iterative builds" are right: try it out. If you never run out of ammo, you're packing too much. But if you run out more than once in several games, you have too little.

One thing I'd put out there, though you didn't ask for it, is that this might be a rare case where I'd consider the LB-10X instead of AC/10.

It has the same damage, but saves you 1 ton and 1 slot. Normally the LB-10X really suffers of the pellet spread, but it's less of an issue here as you should be playing within your SRM max range anyway. Also, the LB-10X is 33% cooler running compared to AC/10 (0.80 vs. 1.20 heat). The "modus operandi" of SRM 'mechs is to keep pouring out damage while your enemy overheats, so it kind of plays to that strength.

You could fit in for example XL-280, 11 DHS, 2 JJ, LB-10X (2 tons ammo), 4xSRM4 (5 tons ammo). Though if you remove 1 DHS and either 1 JJ or 0.5 ton SRM ammo, you can go all the way to XL300.

#15 Whiskey Dharma

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 04:46 AM

Thanks, I'll look into that. I finally set up an account at smurfy's - here's what I'm currently using:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8761fcc2a5b5f5b

Here's what an LBX rig might look like - I used the extra ton to give it a third JJ and some more AC ammo:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e9006d4bacdb4ee

Edited by Whiskey Dharma, 27 August 2016 - 04:51 AM.


#16 Exard3k

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 04:53 AM

View PostWhiskey Dharma, on 27 August 2016 - 04:46 AM, said:

Thanks, I'll look into that. I finally set up an account at smurfy's - here's what I'm currently using:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8761fcc2a5b5f5b


Hint: Never use 275XL engine. Always go for 280XL. same weight, more speed Posted Image


LB10-Setup gets your Autocannon more in line with the SRMs while having better heat efficiency. The AC10 however shines at >300m compared to the LB10 and gives you some midrange option while the LB10 is more for brawling like SRMs.

Edited by Exard3k, 27 August 2016 - 04:55 AM.


#17 Whiskey Dharma

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 05:21 AM

I just tried the LBX out. 2 kills, 405 damage. My average damage with the SHD has been around 350, so I'd say that's a success. I did draw a favorable map and scenario, tho (Mining Collective/Skirmish). And I did take some long-range fire that I couldn't return, although arguably I shouldn't be trading at range with a single AC/10 anyway.

#18 PaquIS

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 05:55 AM

View PostWhiskey Dharma, on 27 August 2016 - 04:46 AM, said:

Thanks, I'll look into that. I finally set up an account at smurfy's - here's what I'm currently using:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8761fcc2a5b5f5b

Here's what an LBX rig might look like - I used the extra ton to give it a third JJ and some more AC ammo:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e9006d4bacdb4ee

Shave off one ton from the SRM ammo and put that ton into the armor on arms. And well yeah you could get XL280 without any penalties as it weights the same, but if you are low on cbills it may not be worth the investment.

Anyways Shadowhawk has great arms for shielding the vulnerable side torsos and even the CT. Loadout what you have is perfect for minimizing the required facetime. So basically what you want to do is to just fire both the AC10 and SRM's when you are within range, immediately twist your torso to the side (dont stay and look until your rockets hit the target or anything) twist back, fire, twist to the side, fire, twist, fire, etc. Its the arm you want the enemy to see most of the time and when enemy does see your front it means there is a volley coming his way. It will greatly increase your survivability on the field. If you manage to lose both arms before going down you can consider that as a success. Posted Image





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