156 replies to this topic

[Kangarad]

I will probably have to mothball my assaults due to drop limitations unless I can just bring 3 mechs instead of 4...

[Dolph Hoskins]

Alistair Winter, on 09 September 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

I actually take issue with this post.

As someone who personally served in Afghanistan in 2004-2005 and was wounded in battle, do you think I could just die and drop again in a dropship with a fresh vehicle from my "drop deck"?

F*ck no!

I actually had to disconnect after 2 minutes and respawn in Iraq, where I won a battle and got double XP.

As you can imagine, dropdecks would break all immersion for me.

Humor understood I knew MWO was life and death to anyone with a T1 displayed

Between stuff like this and looking at the lolrus bukkit pictures in the faction warfare forums I have been laughing to myself all day.. Thank you MWO forums.

[Johnny Z]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 02:02 PM, said:

Its not about if, it is about how many. If a majority of matches in domination or skirmish actually play worse than their QP counterpart, then it is definitely on topic to say that this is not a positive thing.

Gameplay is excellent in this game. What more is there to say. How many matches have been played on all the various maps and modes?

"stomps" is an entirely different subject that I am trying not to get sucked into.

Most stomps I have seen is where its 10 v 12 or similar problems or some mechs go invulnerable or theres botting involved. Has nothing to do with this subject.

Edited by Johnny Z, 09 September 2016 - 02:06 PM.

[Besh]

I am afraid this may be a shift towards a little bit of P2W . As in how does a T5, T4's DropDeck hold up against those of T3, T2 Guys ? Or against other T5s and T4s who have dropped Money into 'Mechpacks ?

Edited by Besh, 09 September 2016 - 02:06 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Besh, on 09 September 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

I am afraid this may be a shift towards a little bit of P2W . As in how does a T5, T4's DropDeck hold up against those of T3, T2 Guys ? Or against other T5s and T4s who have dropped Money into 'Mechpacks ?

That's a newbie vrs veteran player question. Its actually a good one.

Edited by Johnny Z, 09 September 2016 - 02:10 PM.

[Besh]

Johnny Z, on 09 September 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

That's a newbie vrs veteran player question. Its actually a good one.

A T4 may be matched up against T2 at least in QP . And afaik, T4 can happen if 2, 3 of your very first games happen to be really good ones . This can create Games where unexpreienced people owning literally Zero 'Mechs will have to multipledrop against people with 4 fully skilled and moduled 'Mechs .

Talk about "lopsided" and "Stomps"...

Edited by Besh, 09 September 2016 - 02:16 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Johnny Z, on 09 September 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

Has nothing to do with this subject.

Actually it does, because stomps have nothing to do with anything you described, they can happen against equally skilled players where one team just made a bad decision that allowed for a snowball effect to occur. How a snowball plays out in a respawn mode does have an impact on how people like a game mode, especially if the game mode isn't designed to somewhat safeguard someone from this.

[Wolf Ender]

I've always thought that respawns make MORE sense in casual quickplay and no-respawn makes a lot more sense in competitive matches where you actually have skilled teams and the outcome really matters.

I don't see how Assault works with respawns though. Not if the base cap is also the spawn point. To avoid a spawn-camping situation you have to make the spawn point either safe from the enemy or heavily defended by dropships or turret weapons.. but if the assault mode requires you to take that base then that makes it too hard to achieve a cap victory.

So for assault the base cap needs to be far enough away from the spawn zone to make it defensible but not unassailable.

[Johnny Z]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

Actually it does, because stomps have nothing to do with anything you described, they can happen against equally skilled players where one team just made a bad decision that allowed for a snowball effect to occur. How a snowball plays out in a respawn mode does have an impact on how people like a game mode, especially if the game mode isn't designed to somewhat safeguard someone from this.

Ok then our definitions of stomps are different.

If your talking about equally skilled players like you mentioned then matches can happen in all sorts of ways including legit crushing defeats.

With dropships an equally skilled team not trying to sabotage the match will recover to a degree the next drop, and if they are fighting a legit team then who knows what happens.

Dropship support can even the match up even for a weaker team if they use them for cover. Yes stomping teams hate that and is one more excuse for them to turn on any hacks they don't already have running true but who cares hopefully those guys get banned.

Edited by Johnny Z, 09 September 2016 - 02:38 PM.

[Wolf Ender]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

How a snowball plays out in a respawn mode does have an impact on how people like a game mode

You are right they REALLY need to consider this and put in ways to make a really imbalanced match go out of control. Can you imagine how salty people will be if a 12-0 roll ends going on for 4 drops straight. Good lord.

I wonder if it would be better like if they do it in waves.. like counter-strike style where it's the same teams but you play 4 rounds of no-respawn. you wait until all 12 die then respawn all 24 players with new mechs even the winning team. Then it's just 4 games without having to reconnect.

Maybe the same team that just stomped you 10-12 isn't actually imbalanced but your team just made mistakes and they could come back and win on another round.

[Wecx]

Wolf Ender, on 09 September 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

You are right they REALLY need to consider this and put in ways to make a really imbalanced match go out of control. Can you imagine how salty people will be if a 12-0 roll ends going on for 4 drops straight. Good lord.

I wonder if it would be better like if they do it in waves.. like counter-strike style where it's the same teams but you play 4 rounds of no-respawn. you wait until all 12 die then respawn all 24 players with new mechs even the winning team. Then it's just 4 games without having to reconnect.

Maybe the same team that just stomped you 10-12 isn't actually imbalanced but your team just made mistakes and they could come back and win on another round.

I'd rage-quit if i had to play another 3 waves after a 12-0 Stomp. At least when a game goes bad in the current system you just play another.

I'm super skeptical that PGI can even balance this game-mode, considering how they "balanced" other things in the past.

Edited by Wecx, 09 September 2016 - 02:41 PM.

[TheArisen]

It's worth testing on the Pts. Some maps are too small & camping after gaining the lead will likely be prevalent.

[Wecx]

TheArisen, on 09 September 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

It's worth testing on the Pts. Some maps are too small & camping after gaining the lead will likely be prevalent.

I can imagine assaults taking like MASSIVE amounts of LRM ammo.

[Wolf Ender]

Wecx, on 09 September 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

I'd rage-quit if i had to play another 3 waves after a 12-0 Stomp. At least when a game goes bad in the current system you just play another.

I'm super skeptical that PGI can even balance this game-mode, considering how they "balanced" other things in the past.

Yes I would rage quit too and that is the fear I was saying they need to guard against.
But on the other hand I would NOT assume that just because a 12 v 12 fight goes bad one round, that it's going to go the same level of bad for the next 3 also. Maybe the team will regroup and play better.

The guy who separated from the group will realize he needs to stay with the team.
Or the assaults that got left behind and picked apart by light mechs might convince the team to stick together for round 2.

One of the things about the current game modes is that if you see a 12-0 stomp you just say... "the matchmaker failed, that team was better than the other team" you might not consider how important positioning and overall strategy was. If you take those same 2 teams and make them go 4 rounds, you will force people to play differently and kinda up their game.

[DerMaulwurf]

Yeah, because what I really want is to hang around 4 times as long, when the matchmaker has decided it hates me now.

The point of QP are quick and fast matches. Adding respawns actively detracts from that.

[Nameless King]

No I will not and I would stop playing. (probably)

[Wecx]

Wolf Ender, on 09 September 2016 - 02:47 PM, said:

Yes I would rage quit too and that is the fear I was saying they need to guard against.
But on the other hand I would NOT assume that just because a 12 v 12 fight goes bad one round, that it's going to go the same level of bad for the next 3 also. Maybe the team will regroup and play better.

The guy who separated from the group will realize he needs to stay with the team.
Or the assaults that got left behind and picked apart by light mechs might convince the team to stick together for round 2.

One of the things about the current game modes is that if you see a 12-0 stomp you just say... "the matchmaker failed, that team was better than the other team" you might not consider how important positioning and overall strategy was. If you take those same 2 teams and make them go 4 rounds, you will force people to play differently and kinda up their game.

The problem wolf is if the MM hates you and your entire team sucks, than you are stuck with them for 4 waves.

At least in the current system you are only stuck with that team for 1 wave.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Johnny Z, on 09 September 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

With dropships an equally skilled team not trying to sabotage the match will recover to a degree the next drop

No they won't, because dropships are not really close together like they are on CW maps, they are often split with 2 lances grouped up together, and one lance somewhere else. This sort of layout could easily be abused, Forest comes to mind immediately. Camp the lance spread out the furthest, and then destroy the other group. Conquest is the only one that is reasonable because it takes enough time to capture objectives that it won't happen within one respawn, but it is also easy enough to accumulate enough points so that killing the enemies' 4 waves is not really going to happen.

[xX PUG Xx]

IF you listen to what was said, the DD option was ruled OUT for QP because it would increase the length of matches, the antithesis of QUICK play.

But I guess if you want big numbers for views and comments you need to rattle everyones cage and stir up sh**.

[Vincent Quatermain]

Alistair Winter, on 09 September 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

I don't know if everyone is aware of this, but Russ is now saying that if the changes to FP (where they use QP game modes on QP maps with drop decks) are successful, he will look into letting people use drop decks in QP as well.

It's important to note that this was not a trial balloon on Russ' part. Sean Lang asked whether they might do drop decks in QP in the distant future, and Russ simply said maybe. It doesn't sound like there were/are any plans to do this at all.

That being said, I think it's a bad idea because the Q in QP stands for quick. A drop deck game will always take longer.

Edited by Vincent Quatermain, 09 September 2016 - 03:02 PM.