156 replies to this topic

[Wolf Ender]

Wecx, on 09 September 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

The problem wolf is if the MM hates you and your entire team sucks, than you are stuck with them for 4 waves.

At least in the current system you are only stuck with that team for 1 wave.

You are assuming that MM being bad is the cause of stomps. I am saying that MIGHT not be true.
Like I say, take the teams, make them try again, make them change tactics, maybe they will prevail.

The only reason people say MM sucks is because it's the easiest thing to blame. And I'm fully admitting that it might actually be MM but I think when the only evidence you have to go by is 1 round instances, you CANNOT know if it is really the MM making it IMBA or if it was just a bad round, bad positioning, bad strat, etc etc etc

Edited by Wolf Ender, 09 September 2016 - 03:05 PM.

[Wecx]

Wolf Ender, on 09 September 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

You are assuming that MM being bad is the cause of stomps. I am saying that MIGHT not be true.
Like I say, take the teams, make them try again, make them change tactics, maybe they will prevail.

The only reason people say MM sucks is because it's the easiest thing to blame. And I'm fully admitting that it might actually be MM but I think when the only evidence you have to go by is 1 round instances, you CANNOT know if it is really the MM making it IMBA or if it was just a band round, bad positioning, bad strat, etc etc etc

I can know, when all my assault pilots are loaded with LRMs in the back, i know i got a bad team.

[Wolf Ender]

Wecx, on 09 September 2016 - 03:05 PM, said:

I can know, when all my assault pilots are loaded with LRMs in the back, i know i got a bad team.

ok. so you want to reduce the argument to an anecdote of an absurd situation that is fine. I hope others will actually give the idea some thoughtful consideration but I don't think you are opening yourself to consider alternative explanations. thank you for your honest input though.

[Wecx]

Wolf Ender, on 09 September 2016 - 03:08 PM, said:

ok. so you want to reduce the argument to an anecdote of an absurd situation that is fine. I hope others will actually give the idea some thoughtful consideration but I don't think you are opening yourself to consider alternative explanations. thank you for your honest input though.

Absurd situation? I just hopped off MWO like 30 minutes ago and i stomped a team with my KDK-3 because they had 2 Maulers with LRM15s and an Atlas with ER-Large Lasers.

I bet the team i stomped wouldn't have wanted to go another 3 rounds.

Edited by Wecx, 09 September 2016 - 03:10 PM.

[Kirkland Langue]

To those saying "respawns would break immersion"... PGI can Easily get around this.

Easily.

Not only would it be easy, but they have already said they are going to work on the one system that would need modifications for respawns to really make sense.


Multiple Pilots.

You are the boss of a team of mercs - each mech that you buy actually comes with its own pilot. The skill tree changes are actually skills for the pilot of that mech.

While one might wonder why the multiple pilots aren't all dropping at the same time - that can more easily be brushed aside than respawns in general.

[Wecx]

Kirkland Langue, on 09 September 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

To those saying "respawns would break immersion"... PGI can Easily get around this.

Easily.

Not only would it be easy, but they have already said they are going to work on the one system that would need modifications for respawns to really make sense.


Multiple Pilots.

You are the boss of a team of mercs - each mech that you buy actually comes with its own pilot. The skill tree changes are actually skills for the pilot of that mech.

While one might wonder why the multiple pilots aren't all dropping at the same time - that can more easily be brushed aside than respawns in general.

Kirkland, welcome to an elite group of people who post really good ideas that PGI will never implement.

[Johnny Z]

Kirkland Langue, on 09 September 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

To those saying "respawns would break immersion"... PGI can Easily get around this.

Easily.

Not only would it be easy, but they have already said they are going to work on the one system that would need modifications for respawns to really make sense.


Multiple Pilots.

You are the boss of a team of mercs - each mech that you buy actually comes with its own pilot. The skill tree changes are actually skills for the pilot of that mech.

While one might wonder why the multiple pilots aren't all dropping at the same time - that can more easily be brushed aside than respawns in general.

I never liked this idea because it sounds like 3rd person pilots to me. NPC lance mates? Awsome. NPC mechbay crew? Cant wait. Its the player pilot npc I simply don't like the sound of. Maybe that's just me though.

NPC's are the number 1 thing this game is missing. NPC faction leaders and all sorts of NPC's could make this game so much better.

1st person mechbay is tied for number 1 I think also. Showing mech scale and all sorts of things.

Edited by Johnny Z, 09 September 2016 - 04:04 PM.

[Chuanhao]

If u have a good team, u will enjoy your 30 mins investment of time.

If u have a bad random team, u will curse yourself.

Quick play needs to be quick, not extended.

FP has always been the longer game for those that want it.

While QP was fast and furious. Let's not take that away

[Wecx]

Chuanhao, on 09 September 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

If u have a good team, u will enjoy your 30 mins investment of time.

If u have a bad random team, u will curse yourself.

Quick play needs to be quick, not extended.

FP has always been the longer game for those that want it.

While QP was fast and furious. Let's not take that away

Well said.

[DaZur]

Alistair Winter, on 09 September 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

I don't know if everyone is aware of this, but Russ is now saying that if the changes to FP (where they use QP game modes on QP maps with drop decks) are successful, he will look into letting people use drop decks in QP as well. So basically, Skirmish, Domination, Conquest and Assault on maps like Forest Colony and Crimson Strait, except everyone gets to use up to 4 mechs per match.

I think it's potentially a positive for many reasons. Some problems too, but I'm not immediately opposed to the idea. What do you think?

I advocated this a looong time ago right before CW was stillborn.

[Cy Mitchell]

Alistair Winter, on 09 September 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

I don't know if everyone is aware of this, but Russ is now saying that if the changes to FP (where they use QP game modes on QP maps with drop decks) are successful, he will look into letting people use drop decks in QP as well. So basically, Skirmish, Domination, Conquest and Assault on maps like Forest Colony and Crimson Strait, except everyone gets to use up to 4 mechs per match.

I think it's potentially a positive for many reasons. Some problems too, but I'm not immediately opposed to the idea. What do you think?

I am opposed to this because..........quick play. Quick Play is popular because you can quickly drop in one or more maps at a relatively rapid fire pace and have some casual fun. It is perfect for players that grab a few minutes or an hour to play whenever they can. It takes very little investment of time to have some fun. You can switch Mechs or load-outs every few minutes if you want to. This helps during leveling because you can jump in quick games and grab the first win bonuses on several Mechs to earn XP and GXP faster. It is the most popular MWO game mode for some of these reasons.

Faction Play, on the other hand, takes a much bigger commitment of time and resources to compete in successfully. Faction Play games and all re-spawn games take much longer to complete so they require more of a long term commitment even if you are only playing one or two. Bringing re-spawn via drop decks to Quick Play would force the player into the same type of time commitment as Faction Play and take away flexibility.

I never heard Russ commit to drop decks in Quick Play during the poscast and I listened to the entire thing live. I know Phil, for some reason, was pushing the idea and Russ finally said they could look at it but he did not seem enthusiastic about the idea.

I do not know why you would take your most popular game mode and make it mirror your most unpopular game mode even when they introduce the proposed changes into the game. Quick Play is great for the casual player and the new player trying to learn the game. It is perfect for leveling Mechs and trying new load outs. Faction Play can become the ultimate end game for more experienced players who are willing to commit more time and resources to the game. It should incorporate all the content of the game. Faction Play games should be longer, require team work and provide elements of immersion that most Quick Play players care very little about. If there is going to be re-spawn of any type then Faction Play is where it belongs if for no other reason than the amount of time it takes to complete games.

I am not a big fan of re-spawn anyway but I can see its benefits in Faction Play. I honestly do not see the benefit of re-spawn in Quick Play and in my opinion the downsides of including it in Quick Play greatly outweigh any benefit it might bring.

I sincerely hope that they do not do it and risk messing up the only really successful part of MWO.

(other than the artwork on the Mechs. I love Alex's work on the Mechs)

[Mystere]

Alistair Winter, on 09 September 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

I don't know if everyone is aware of this, but Russ is now saying that if the changes to FP (where they use QP game modes on QP maps with drop decks) are successful, he will look into letting people use drop decks in QP as well. So basically, Skirmish, Domination, Conquest and Assault on maps like Forest Colony and Crimson Strait, except everyone gets to use up to 4 mechs per match.

I think it's potentially a positive for many reasons. Some problems too, but I'm not immediately opposed to the idea. What do you think?

Skirmish has to go in QP.

[Red Shrike]

Kirkland Langue, on 09 September 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

To those saying "respawns would break immersion"... PGI can Easily get around this.

Easily.

Not only would it be easy, but they have already said they are going to work on the one system that would need modifications for respawns to really make sense.


Multiple Pilots.

You are the boss of a team of mercs - each mech that you buy actually comes with its own pilot. The skill tree changes are actually skills for the pilot of that mech.

While one might wonder why the multiple pilots aren't all dropping at the same time - that can more easily be brushed aside than respawns in general.

While that would explain the whole multiple drops thing, it would utterly shatter the already fragile illusion that you are the pilot.

Edited by Red Shrike, 09 September 2016 - 05:07 PM.

[Mystere]

AnTi90d, on 09 September 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

Skirmish will end up in a spawn camp for whichever team gains a lead.

Skirmish has to go.

AnTi90d, on 09 September 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

Conquest will end up in a spawn camp for whichever team gains a lead.

Domination will end up in a spawn camp for whichever team gains a lead.

Assault might be OK.. because there are plans for future base defenses.

The spawn points of the QuickPlay maps, (aside for the new Assault mode,) are not engineered for multiple drops. It sounds like a good idea, on paper, but the community doesn't realize what it's asking for.

I don't know about other people, but one of my most memorable moments in CW was my skittle group giving a 12-man a dose of their own medicine by spawn camping them.

I'm fine with spawn camping.

[Alex Morgaine]

I don't know... At least get solaris for single Mech pilots first so they aren't left out to (build multiple Mechs simultaneously instead of experimenting with one at a time)

[DjPush]

I would love having the option 9f picking my mech to fit the map after we find out which one it is. That's it. No respawn. As a matter of fact, that very idea has been proposed to PGI for years.

[Dirkdaring]

I'd rather them put mobile repair bays in the game like Mechcommander has.

[XX Sulla XX]

Respawn in quickplay is a terrible terrible idea.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The Potatoe Whisperer, on 09 September 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

I would love having the option 9f picking my mech to fit the map after we find out which one it is. That's it. No respawn. As a matter of fact, that very idea has been proposed to PGI for years.

Hey, a tonnage-limited Dropdeck to choose a Mech from after knowing the map would encourage Dropdeck diversity... you can't just bring 4 Assaults or 4 Heavies to choose from

[Kirkland Langue]

Prosperity Park, on 09 September 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

Hey, a tonnage-limited Dropdeck to choose a Mech from after knowing the map would encourage Dropdeck diversity... you can't just bring 4 Assaults or 4 Heavies to choose from

Exactly what I've been proposing.

I'm not a fan of the idea of respawns in QP, for the reasons mentioned - but I figure that if PGI adds dropdecks to QP, and then the community really hates the respawns, then it has potential for PGI to go the path of just choosing 1 mech after the map is selected and dropping the respawn.

It really only works if the MM is changed to get rid of PSR and instead just forms balanced teams based upon the mechs selected.