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Summoner Or Hellbringer?


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#1 invernomuto

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 07:00 AM

With the current heavy mech sale I am planning to buy my next heavy clan mech.
I'll probabily get the Hellbringer because I will get one as loyalty prize, but I'd prefer a 70 tonner (my fav IS mech is the Warhammer, one of the most versatile mech in the IS side). Is the summoner so bad for Clans? I already have 3 Timberwolves.

#2 Metus regem

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 07:11 AM

The Summoner is not a mech I would recommend to anyone that isn't ready to play with expert difficulty. With the right pilot behind the controls it can be a good mech, but it really does need the right pilot.

The Summoner has a maximum payload of 21t with a little armour stripping, but she does come with 5 JJ's in all configurations. It is also important to note, she is heavily hard point starved, with a maximum weapon hard point count of 5.

The Hellbringer while lacking JJ's and being 5t lighter can bring a payload of 23.5t with a very minor amount of armour stripping, that it will more or less have the same armour value as the Summoner (416 HBR vs 422 SMN). It is also important to note that the maximum hard point count on the Hellbringer is 10 and this will still give you the option to mount ECM by using the prime LT (also the LT that mounts 3E in a high location).

The real nail in the coffin for the Summoner is, everything it can do, the Timber Wolf S can do it better.

#3 Arianrhod

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 07:22 PM

Everyone's going to tell you to go Hellbringer. Obviously it looks better on paper. More pod space. ECM. Plenty of hardpoints to work with.

Whereas the Summoner has very limited hardpoints, locked jump jets taking up space, a very low amount of pod space, no potential for ECM. . . . It has a laundry list of defects if we're being honest.

That said, I must advocate for the Summoner. If, that is, your playstyle revolves around mobility and hit-and-run capability. The Summoner isn't a mech for a brawl and it doesn't bring much firepower for its tonnage as a sniper, but it does move. With the 5% speed quirk, which is not to be discounted just because it is minor, it's the fastest Clan heavy, and the Clan heavy with the furthest flight capability. And it has a pile of awesome quirks to compensate for how objectively poor it is, such as amazing LBX quirks and pretty solid ER PPC quirks.

And the Summoner does have some objective positive qualities:
-High ballistic mounts. I particularly enjoy the right side torso ballistic mount because it is directly beneath the cockpit, meaning anything you can see, you can shoot.
-Good possibilities for assymmetry. With the cockpit on the far right side, you can shove all the weapons onto that side of the mech and have a very efficient side-peeking profile. And strip the left arm.
-Five jump jets means jump like a medium. Very few heavy mechs can mount that many. Use it.

*In the future, the loyalty Summoners will introduce new omnipods that will have side torso energy mounts, which will make the Summoner much, much more viable for an energy-based loadout, or for having small energy weapons as backup weapons.

So yeah, just my thoughts. Of course the main reason I like the Summoner is, it's fun c:

#4 Mercworks

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 05:03 PM

I just have to put the Hellbringer way ahead. The only advantage of the Summoner is the JJ, and the lack of hardpoints, crits and ecm just isn't worth it.

#5 InspectorG

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 05:53 PM

Hellbie in most cases is going to be better.

Summoner has several problems.

BUT.

The new pods might just give it niche roles that no other Clan Mech can do. ERPPC jumpsnipe with powerful quirks and way more agility than the Timby.

One of the torso pods has 1E 1M...which can allow for LRM boats. Usually i say pass BUT it has nice missile spread quirks which may turn LRM10s into LRM5s.

With 2E in the torso nice and high, but not too high like the Ebon, you can snipe quite well and win trades.

Summoner handles like a fat medium, by the way. If mobility mechs appeal to you.

#6 process

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 06:06 AM

To echo what everyone else said: Hellbringer is a better weapons and support platform at the moment. The Summoner is a little more fun to play thanks to its speed quirks and jumpjets, but it feels underpowered. When it gets its new energy side torso omnipods, it will be a much more viable contender.

#7 Ruccus

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 07:36 AM

I own both and like both, so I don't think it's a clear cut choice. If you like the extra mobility of jump jets or if you like missiles more than energy weapons you'll probably like the Summoner over the Hellbringer. My 5xSRM6+Artemis Summoner is a beastly brawler once it closes the distance and is easy mode on smaller maps for an event like the current one that's measuring KMDD.

The Hellbringer also has no quirks while the Summoner has some pretty solid quirks depending on the omnipod. The SMN-Prime right arm has good ERPPC quirks, the SMN-C left arm quirks (-30% UAC jam chance as well as velocity and cooldown quirks) turn the UAC20 into an even more fearsome weapon, and quirks on AMS range and rate of fire give a dual AMS Summoner a good LRM umbrella.

I've tried to make a good Hellbringer build without the ECM but that left torso is just too darn good not to use. But there is something satisfying having a heavy mech with ECM that's able to sneak around the map and unload a good amount of firepower. Conversely, every mech pilot knows that when you see a Hellbringer shoot its left torso because that's not only where three energy hardpoints are but also its ECM.

Edited by Ruccus, 02 October 2016 - 07:36 AM.


#8 Tsar Bomba

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 08:29 AM

Buy both. It's only money and when you die your annoying kids will give it all to that political agenda you hate anyway.

#9 Mole

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 08:38 AM

I own both of these 'mechs and let me tell you their pros and cons. The Summoner is quick and agile. It can take a fairly decent pounding but its far from a tank. Its biggest problem is lack of hardpoints and the build that I most commonly see when I do see one is an SRM splat build which is about the only close to meta thing the Summoner has the hardpoints to do well. I love mine, however, and do well in it. I will show you my build and give you some tips on how to play it.

Here is my Summoner: SMN-PRIME

Now how you play this thing is your LRMs are meant solely as a closing weapon or something to do when your team decides they want to camp and not push. Your primary objective is to get in range to bring your lasers to bear on the enemy. The LRM launcher is only to serve as something you can soften them up a little with while you try to get in range. I also find it has pretty good utility for finishing off a heavily damaged target that just broke line of sight with you to try and save their own life if you launch it before you lose target lock and hit them with a final LRM kill blow since its likely the LRMs will arc over the cover they just ducked behind.


And here's my Hellbringer: HBR-PRIME

First thing you might notice about the Hellbringer in general, and indeed the first thing I noticed and it gave me a real hard time at first actually, is that it is fragile. Like, really fragile. You don't try and tank with this thing. No matter what loadout you're carrying. The build I have here arose out of trying different things and figuring out what worked and what didn't. The missile hardpoints I initially tried SRMs in but I found out quickly that if I was in brawling range in a Hellbringer I was probably in trouble and ultimately found that SRMs on a Hellbringer were not really helpful. I replaced the SRMs with a couple LRM10 launchers to be used in the same manner as described above on the Summoner. The LRMs allow me to strike from safety sometimes but my primary goal is to bring my lasers to bear. I initially tried 6 medium pulse lasers, but it was just too hot. I switched to ER Medium Lasers, which both gave me more range and more heat efficiency, and I've never looked back. Just kinda try and stay back with this Hellbringer. It's not something you wanna go wading into a brawl with.

Edited by Mole, 02 October 2016 - 08:41 AM.


#10 Spheroid

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 08:43 AM

If it is one OR the other, I would recommend the Hellbringer.

#11 maimaimi

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 11:21 PM

http://mwomercs.com/...s?t=201609mechs
last tourney
summoner: 3,406 top score
hellbringer: 4,530 top score

nuf said?

#12 invernomuto

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 02:24 AM

Thanks guys, I went for the Hellbringer during the heavy mechs sale.

#13 SlightlyMobileTurret

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 03:57 AM

The summoner is a very fun mech. It just needs to be carefully built, milking the quirks for what they're worth.

For instance, a 2ERPPC summoner built right has 50%+ cooling efficiency, 15% cooldown and faster-than-gauss ERPPCs.

The splat summoner is something I crap my pants on seeing, largely due to how freakily maneuvrable one is in close combat. Also spreads damage like a boss.

I know Tahribator has tanked a summoner down to 4% and won the match. 4%. And repeated sub-10 health scores again and again.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 03 October 2016 - 03:58 AM.






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