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Cataphract 4X. What Am I Supposed To Do With This Thing?


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#1 AncientRaig

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 05:40 PM

I'm at my wits end with this mech. Usually I can find something at least halfway decent for most any mech, be it meta or nonmeta, but I just can't get this thing to do work. Quad AC5s, LBX+MPL brawler, big engine, small engine, XL, STD, no matter what I try I just can't get this thing to put out damage. My best game so far has been a 400ish damage game, and my average is lower than 200. I just want to get the basic level of skills so I can sell it and get a better mech, since I'm trying to unlock elite skills for my 0XP, but it's just such a painful grind of matches where sometimes I'm not even breaking 100 xp. It's not that I'm a bad pilot, in most other machines I can average at least 500 damage, but I just can't get the hang of this machine. Any advice?

#2 East Indy

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 06:07 PM

There will be different interpretations, but from my experience the 4X is from a bygone era in mid/late-2013 when Heat Scale had just come into force, autocannons enjoyed 3x maximum range, AC/5 velocity was 15% higher, and a brutally low engine cap for that variant was acceptable compared to other choices.

Short answer: cut your losses. If you can swing seven bucks, get it to Basics; or if you can take the cash dent, swap for a new variant; but either way don't look back until balance changes or you really want to invest in a niche playstyle.

#3 Audacious Aubergine

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 07:06 PM

The -4X was my first ever mech and made me nearly quit the game, but eventually I think I came to grips with it. It really suffers in the current high alpha environment, since my most effective games in it were with quad-AC5 dps-style build. I've recently retrofitted it with 2x AC10 instead and that was a little better.
You have to be very patient given the horribly low engine cap - stick with the assaults since they'll mostly be moving at the same speed. You'll generally be able to hit about as hard as they can, but you'll need them to help spread the damage since they'll have upwards of 20t more weight and armour on you. Best advice I can also offer is to outright ignore that missile hardpoint - it only grants you a single slot, leaving you with the choice of a single LRM5 (utterly pointless) or an SRM4 (mostly wasted tonnage that could be used for more guns and/or bullets)

Re-read your post, so I won't bother linking a quad 5's build. CTF-4X That's the AC10 build I used a few times, the arms have a full range of movement and it has turn speed and torso twist speed quirks, so it can brawl with them better than you might think

Edited by Audacious Aubergine, 24 September 2016 - 07:18 PM.


#4 Kaptain

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 07:16 PM

I like all the other Cataphracts, not this one. I've found that if I want ballistics I would far rather have a jumping 3D or a jager mech.

I did enjoy success with 2XAC2s + 2xUltra5s and a 255XL in the past but I don't run it anymore.

Edited by Kaptain, 24 September 2016 - 07:16 PM.


#5 Arianrhod

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 07:29 PM

Because the 4X has like, no useful hardpoints, when I had one I just loaded on all the ballistics I could. So, either the ol' DualGauss™ rifles, or, and bear with me here, 1 LB-10x, 1 AC/5, and 2 AC/2s. Purely because MOAR DAKKA. Those were the best I could ever come up with. The low speed is just brutal, but I could even work around that if only the arms were higher.

Ultimately I ended up breaking the golden rule of not selling mechs and dumping this one.

#6 BLOOD WOLF

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 07:40 PM

2AC10's largepulse or 2xmed pulse with srm 4. dude the 4x can go far

#7 habu86

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 07:53 PM

The key is to play it like a small assault.

Quad AC5, XL255, front load your armor even more than usual, stick with the bigs, and be VERY, VERY aware of your surroundings.

It's got structure buffs and torso yaw quirks, so it's surprisingly durable if you twist, and it's got accel quirks so it's got good footwork.

Just have to approach it same as any other slow heavy and make an effort to stay ahead of the battle.

#8 Kaptain

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 08:09 PM

At this point there is really no reason the engine cap could not be lifted to 300. That would breath a little life into this thing.

#9 Archie4Strings

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 04:06 AM

Do what Habu86 said:

Biggest Xl Engine, 4 AC5, stay low and behind and try to dakka as much as possible. Always keep in mind that you are a slow moving mech, so take care that you dont get lost behind and get rushed away by lights, especially in nascar sessions. And once you got the skills, sell it. Or keep it if you dont need the C-Bills. If you find a good spot to shoot and the enemy doesnt really notice you or focusses other targets first, then you will do really much damage!

It was my first mech 2 1/2 half years ago i think. I hated it for its slow speed. That is something you can work with, its almost like the night gyr. But the night gyr ist still a little faster, got JJ and higher weapon slots.
Btw: I sold it pretty fast :D

#10 invernomuto

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 04:26 AM

View PostKaptain, on 24 September 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

At this point there is really no reason the engine cap could not be lifted to 300. That would breath a little life into this thing.


But then the Ilya would become obsolete...

#11 TercieI

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 04:47 AM

View Postinvernomuto, on 29 September 2016 - 04:26 AM, said:


But then the Ilya would become obsolete...


It already is. The 4X is just more obsolete.

#12 invernomuto

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 05:23 AM

View PostTercieI, on 29 September 2016 - 04:47 AM, said:

It already is. The 4X is just more obsolete.


Probabily in T1. In T4 I get solid results with my 3UAC/5 Ilya + XL300. A 70 tonner heavy mech that move at about 75 kph and can shot 15 dmg every 1,66 secs with the possibility to double tap and with a 25% in range increase (750m optimal range), an additional 20% in projectiles velocity and 10% cooldown.
X4 is hugely penalized by its low engine cap.

#13 Bud Crue

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 05:24 AM

View PostTercieI, on 29 September 2016 - 04:47 AM, said:

It already is. The 4X is just more obsolete.


Last time I debated this with someone it was asserted by them that the 4x with its 4 ballistic hard points made it "unique" relative to the Illya. I countered with the Black Widow, where upon it was asserted that the higher hard points of the BW provided no noticeable benefit. The fact that you rarely see 4AC5 4xs in game vs a steady stream of BWs was also said to be a irrelevant and untrue. I then slapped my forehead and stopped arguing.

View Postinvernomuto, on 29 September 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:


Probabily in T1. In T4 I get solid results with my 3UAC/5 Ilya + XL300. A 70 tonner heavy mech that move at about 75 kph and can shot 15 dmg every 1,66 secs with the possibility to double tap and with a 25% in range increase (750m optimal range), an additional 20% in projectiles velocity and 10% cooldown.
X4 is hugely penalized by its low engine cap.


Try it with 3LBX or even 3AC10. Lots of fun the Illya.

Edited by Bud Crue, 29 September 2016 - 05:26 AM.


#14 TercieI

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 05:39 AM

View Postinvernomuto, on 29 September 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:


Probabily in T1. In T4 I get solid results with my 3UAC/5 Ilya + XL300. A 70 tonner heavy mech that move at about 75 kph and can shot 15 dmg every 1,66 secs with the possibility to double tap and with a 25% in range increase (750m optimal range), an additional 20% in projectiles velocity and 10% cooldown.
X4 is hugely penalized by its low engine cap.


Oh, I'm sure it can be ok PUGging (what can't?) but the Ilya, like the 4X, is clearly inferior to other options now available (Black Widow and Night Gyr at the very least). That's what I meant by obsolete: Clearly superseded by other options.

Edited by TercieI, 29 September 2016 - 06:08 AM.


#15 oldradagast

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 06:00 AM

There's not much to be done with the 4X at this point, really. Both it and the 0XP (oh, what a fitting name for that one!) are rather useless since they have no high-mounted hardpoints. Other Cataphracts can at least mount some heavy energy weapons high up so they can do a bit of hill peeking, but the ones that can't much expose an insane amount of their body to fire on a target, meaning they'll be torn to shreds. Cataphracts have some of the lowest mounted arm weapons in the game for their size, and my 4X spent way too much time creating craters vs. hitting people. In the end, I sold it. Cataphracts are, overall, obsolete, but the ones without high energy hardpoints are nearly unplayable these days.

#16 S 0 L E N Y A

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 03:12 PM

View Postinvernomuto, on 29 September 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:


Probabily in T1. In T4 I get solid results with my 3UAC/5 Ilya + XL300.



You (meaning anyone) can get away with just about anything in tier5 and 4 and make it work. I have the smurf accounts to prove it.

#17 Kaptain

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 03:36 PM

View Postinvernomuto, on 29 September 2016 - 04:26 AM, said:

But then the Ilya would become obsolete...


Do you not own them?
Are you not familiar with Smurfy?
Or do you just post things without thinking/evidence?

Genuinely curious how such a demonstrably false claim is made.

Can the 4X do This?
Or this?
Or this?

The 4x needs a boost in engine rating to 300. It is still a pile but 300xls would make it less so.

EDIT: to be clear, I agree with Terciel that there are better options in other mechs BUT to say a small engine limit boost to one of the worst heavies in the game somehow obsoletes the IM... is demonstrably false. See evidence above.

Edited by Kaptain, 06 October 2016 - 03:41 PM.


#18 hordes1ayer2

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 04:32 PM

I mastered the catphracts. I had trouble at first with getting damage until I bult this

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8e63bc3686c351c

Just let is rip with the ac2s and the meds and srm are for close range. It was a lot of fun playing this build. I hope you enjoy. Send me a message if u need help:)

#19 Bohxim

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 05:58 PM

I bought 2 phract in anticipation for the free one I'm getting soon (Ilya and 4x). While the ilya can spot 3 ac10 for a unique experience, my 4x plays better. Think you just have to play around its weaknesses and build upon its strengths. You'll always lose trades because of low speeds and mounts. BUT you have lower arm actuated 4 ac5 and 2 medium lasers as backup. Play it as an escort mech for assaults and while they take some of the beating, get into the open and pound away with ur cannons. This beast packs a very good sustainable punch and often are more ignored for other higher priority targets. Just go to town and pound them left right with the cannons, firing the ML when in range. Try to engage the reds down slope or on open land to avoid shooting the floor. The 4x works as an excellent escorts too as th3 lower actuators help you hit lights and fast mediums easier.
Hope this helps
Cheers

#20 Kmieciu

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 12:00 AM

I bought my CTF-4X in 2013.

Got basic skills and shelved it. It simply was not fun - too sluggish. That's because the low engine cap affected turn and twist rates.
But now it's got quirks. +45% torso turn rate and +40% turn rate.
It has XL255, but it twists and turns like Warhammer Black Widow with XL340.
It has 104 points of bonus structure and arms that do block incoming damage. I rate it second talkiest heavy after MAD-3R.

Forget medium lasers. Go with 2xUAC5 2xAC5 and 8 tonnes of ammo. It will last for about 73 seconds of dakka. Enough for 1200 damage. May not sound like much, but it has 17.7 average DPS. Black Widow only reaches 16 DPS with the same build.

On numerous occasions I was able to take down dakka-Kodiaks and dakka-Direwolves 1vs1. The only requirement is to fight them on flat terrain :-)


TLDR:

CTF-4X vs Black Widow (XL255 2xUAC5 2xAC5 build)

CTF-4X:
+better structure quirks
+better mobility quirks
+better hitboxes
+better DPS
+better ballistic speed and range


Black Widow:
+ arm armor can be shaved for 1 additional tonne of ammo
+ able to hill hump
+ c-bill boost





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