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You Know, Psr Not The Problem, Op Mechs Are.


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#1 JC Daxion

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 12:08 PM

I keep seeing the PSR is broke, it is an EXP bar.. type posts all the time.. and for me this is just NOT the case at all. In 1k+ games my bar has moved a few pixles.

I don't play group, so i don't get boosted by good teams..

I also don't play what is typically the top mechs, or top builds. I like to brawl, i like to push, i use up my armor first more often than not, but i think i am a decent player..


But what i don't do is load up these major meta/OP mechs, and play that Peak and poke, getting 600+ damage.. (i swear some of my best games are ones with 3-4 kills, and maybe 300 damage, because i am hitting the target where i need to, to make the kill)


so it got me thinking, are Players that are not so good, just being rewarded for their bad aim, and OP mechs.. I dunno what i would change,, it was just something i was pondering after reading the PSR is an EXP bar for the 100th time, thinking my PSR has barely budged in a year..

#2 RestosIII

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 12:11 PM

I sincerely doubt it's just people running meta builds that are raising. I run almost solely lore builds and I'm rising when I should DEFINATELY not be rising. I admit that I blow chunks at this game, but I'm still rising. PSR is broke all to hell.

#3 Davers

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 04:05 PM

View PostJC Daxion, on 26 September 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

I keep seeing the PSR is broke, it is an EXP bar.. type posts all the time.. and for me this is just NOT the case at all. In 1k+ games my bar has moved a few pixles.

I don't play group, so i don't get boosted by good teams..

I also don't play what is typically the top mechs, or top builds. I like to brawl, i like to push, i use up my armor first more often than not, but i think i am a decent player..


But what i don't do is load up these major meta/OP mechs, and play that Peak and poke, getting 600+ damage.. (i swear some of my best games are ones with 3-4 kills, and maybe 300 damage, because i am hitting the target where i need to, to make the kill)


so it got me thinking, are Players that are not so good, just being rewarded for their bad aim, and OP mechs.. I dunno what i would change,, it was just something i was pondering after reading the PSR is an EXP bar for the 100th time, thinking my PSR has barely budged in a year..


PSR is directly tied to damage. If you were doing 600+ damage a match you will see quicker improvement. Killing mechs efficiently may give you a better w/l but doesn't give you as much of a bump to your PSR. Plus, the more games you play the slower your PSR changes.



#4 El Bandito

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 04:40 PM

The damage bonus to PSR should be cut in half, at the least.

#5 Lootee

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 04:42 PM

Naw the 4 pillars of Minimal Viability Online crowdfunding were:

1) Damage
2) Damage
3) Damage
4) E-sports

#6 lagartx3

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 04:49 PM

View PostLootee, on 26 September 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

Naw the 4 pillars of Minimal Viability Online crowdfunding were:

1) Damage
2) Damage
3) Damage
4) E-sports


I couldnt help but to read the damage with the B33F voice XD

#7 Davers

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 04:57 PM

View Postlagartx3, on 26 September 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:


I couldnt help but to read the damage with the B33F voice XD


Reading anything in the B33f's voice makes it awesome.

#8 Lootee

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 05:00 PM

View PostDavers, on 26 September 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

Reading anything in the B33f's voice makes it awesome.


Trudat

#9 Cabusha

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 06:03 PM

PSR is biased to raise you up. Recently had a match in the KingCrab. I did 0 damage, one point of scouting. (totally gang-banged when I came around a corner) Our team went on to pull out a victory.

I literally did NOTHING that round, and my PSR was an = sign. That's crap.

But it's a small population and they've gotta provide food for tiers 1-3. Amirite?

#10 Bandilly

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 06:45 PM

It's primarily based on damage and kills, and it is biased to go up. From what I've heard if this is still the correct info there are 8 potential results, 4 for winning and 4 for losing. Out of those 8 results 4 are up, 2 are even, and 2 are down. Basically you are twice as likely to gain than to lose. Looks kinda like this:

Win
Amazing Score - Up Up Up
Good Score - Up Up
Mediocre Score - Up
Pathetic Score - Even

Lose
Amazing Score - Up
Good Score - Even
Mediocre Score - Down
Pathetic Score - Down Down


You have to lose AND not perform particularly well in order to lose points. The rest of the time you are pretty much going up.

Edited by Bandilly, 26 September 2016 - 06:46 PM.


#11 MrMadguy

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 07:37 PM

View PostJC Daxion, on 26 September 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

I keep seeing the PSR is broke, it is an EXP bar.. type posts all the time.. and for me this is just NOT the case at all. In 1k+ games my bar has moved a few pixles.

I don't play group, so i don't get boosted by good teams..

I also don't play what is typically the top mechs, or top builds. I like to brawl, i like to push, i use up my armor first more often than not, but i think i am a decent player..


But what i don't do is load up these major meta/OP mechs, and play that Peak and poke, getting 600+ damage.. (i swear some of my best games are ones with 3-4 kills, and maybe 300 damage, because i am hitting the target where i need to, to make the kill)


so it got me thinking, are Players that are not so good, just being rewarded for their bad aim, and OP mechs.. I dunno what i would change,, it was just something i was pondering after reading the PSR is an EXP bar for the 100th time, thinking my PSR has barely budged in a year..

You know, if PSR would work correctly, game wouldn't have to be balanced, cuz several things would happen:
1) You wouldn't have to play with/against OP 'Mechs - OP 'Mechs would play with/against OP 'Mechs only.
2) You would have your rating dropping as fast, when having poor performance, as you have your rating rising, when you have good performance - you wouldn't have to lose 100500 matches in a row with <100 dmg and 0 kills, when some game unbalancing event happens, such as new OP 'Mech salary or some challenge.
3) Crappy 'Mechs, like old IS ones, would be distinguished from OP ones, so your rating wouldn't be "greatest common denominator" and wouldn't make all your 'Mechs/variants/builds, except Meta ones, completely unplayable and useless.

Edited by MrMadguy, 26 September 2016 - 07:37 PM.


#12 Cementi

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 08:49 PM

The problem is in battletech mechs were not meant to be equal. The game had BV to balance forces and BV takes into consideration not only the mech and build but the pilots skill. Mwo does not have that.

I played in an online ladder league once upon a time for hockey. They had a system that broke the various teams up into tiers. When you beat someone you got points that were modified by the teams tier and the pilots win loss. If good players wanted to earn decent points and hey had to play a lower tier team when playing inexperienced players. The result was surprisingly even games. I cannot help but wonder if a similar system woups help mwo.

When I run table top battletech I actually modify the players pilot and gunnery skill up or down for the purposes of building opponents. It works quite well there as well.

#13 DovisKhan

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 11:37 PM

If you want to raise in PSR


1) Do damage


And yeah it doesn't reward precise killing as much, like you will end up much better with LRMs or lasers than with Gauss


But if you win at least half the time you will be going up

Edited by DovisKhan, 26 September 2016 - 11:38 PM.


#14 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 12:04 AM

View PostJC Daxion, on 26 September 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

I keep seeing the PSR is broke, it is an EXP bar.. type posts all the time.. and for me this is just NOT the case at all. In 1k+ games my bar has moved a few pixles.


PSR is an exp bar for average and better than average players. If yours has only moved a few pixels ... well, the rest of your post kinda proves it.

#15 Rhent

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 12:13 AM

All you have to do is 100 pts damage and win and you go up in PSR, that is a recipe for disaster. Next, you can lose and run a LRM mech and break 650 damage and go up in points. You have to to truly try not to get 650 in a properly speced LRM mech even in a losing match.

PSR should be based on skill, things like the ability to hit the same target until the target is destroyed (precision) and the ability to hit the same target consistently (accuracy) are what PSR should be based on. Right now PSR is a glorified XP bar, everyone will be tier 1 eventually.

#16 Ghogiel

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 01:14 AM

If PSR was working OP should be going down in PSR not up. No one should be on an upward trend with sub 1:1 W/L.

Part of being good is not losing the mechlab battle. If you fail in the mechlab it should show in your stats. If you take **** builds you'll just average worse performance than if you built better mechs.

#17 Karl Streiger

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 02:48 AM

I

View PostGhogiel, on 27 September 2016 - 01:14 AM, said:

If PSR was working OP should be going down in PSR not up. No one should be on an upward trend with sub 1:1 W/L.

Part of being good is not losing the mechlab battle. If you fail in the mechlab it should show in your stats. If you take **** builds you'll just average worse performance than if you built better mechs.

I would like to object (because playing MechLab is so hard) but you are right. It is a tragedy that tons of players hardly know the basics of this game. And to create a Mech that doesn't suck is one of the very basics.
Heck we have this shiny academy and players still bring shite mechs in the game - did they even tried to run the gauntlett or this fast firing thing?

Your Mech has to dish out damage, it has to dish out it fast and it hast to keep the heat in check. Well a good mech in PvP doesn't have to be automaticaly a mech that does work well in the academy... but when your mech runs well in academy you can be sure it would be able to "work" in PvP.

#18 Bud Crue

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 04:34 AM

View PostRhent, on 27 September 2016 - 12:13 AM, said:

All you have to do is 100 pts damage and win and you go up in PSR, that is a recipe for disaster. Next, you can lose and run a LRM mech and break 650 damage and go up in points. You have to to truly try not to get 650 in a properly speced LRM mech even in a losing match.

PSR should be based on skill, things like the ability to hit the same target until the target is destroyed (precision) and the ability to hit the same target consistently (accuracy) are what PSR should be based on. Right now PSR is a glorified XP bar, everyone will be tier 1 eventually.


Yup. This is all there is to the discussion.
I am one of the worst players that I know of. I can prove it, go ahead look at my stats.
I am not running OP mechs...of late I am leveling Hunchies, and Shadow Hawks (and will be moving on to Commandos, Awesomes and then Victors).

And yet, even I -with my crappy skills and crappy builds, running crappy mechs- am going up in tier slowly but surely. Sure I've been t3 since the beginning of the year, but the bar is moving up, however slowly thanks to my average 181 damage. If that kind of average crap performance results in a gradual increase in the PSR bar that ought to make it crystal clear that the damn thing is broken.

If things were right with the world I should be in my T6 under-hive pool swimming with the other no twitch skill, lore build, BattleTech fans; but instead I am halfway through tier 3. Personal Skill Rating my @ss.

#19 Myantra

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 05:25 AM

View PostBud Crue, on 27 September 2016 - 04:34 AM, said:


Yup. This is all there is to the discussion.
I am one of the worst players that I know of. I can prove it, go ahead look at my stats.
I am not running OP mechs...of late I am leveling Hunchies, and Shadow Hawks (and will be moving on to Commandos, Awesomes and then Victors).

And yet, even I -with my crappy skills and crappy builds, running crappy mechs- am going up in tier slowly but surely. Sure I've been t3 since the beginning of the year, but the bar is moving up, however slowly thanks to my average 181 damage. If that kind of average crap performance results in a gradual increase in the PSR bar that ought to make it crystal clear that the damn thing is broken.

If things were right with the world I should be in my T6 under-hive pool swimming with the other no twitch skill, lore build, BattleTech fans; but instead I am halfway through tier 3. Personal Skill Rating my @ss.



On the contrary, I would say it is working well, or as well as it can at least. If you have been in Tier 3 for almost 10 months, and are only moving up slowly, it is not forcing you into Tier 2. You are moving up slowly because your last three W/L are 0.97, 0.65, and 1.05 with match scores high enough to go up slightly in wins (or more if you have a good match). It sounds like you are where the average casual player should be after 10 months.

#20 Bud Crue

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 05:36 AM

View PostMyantra, on 27 September 2016 - 05:25 AM, said:



On the contrary, I would say it is working well, or as well as it can at least. If you have been in Tier 3 for almost 10 months, and are only moving up slowly, it is not forcing you into Tier 2. You are moving up slowly because your last three W/L are 0.97, 0.65, and 1.05 with match scores high enough to go up slightly in wins (or more if you have a good match). It sounds like you are where the average casual player should be after 10 months.


I was at the bottom of t5 in February. I only started playing QP regularly in April after p3 dropped and everyone fled CW. I play for 45-90 minutes a day on average maybe 4-5 days a week. Maybe that is how the system is supposed to work. I just think otherwise I guess.





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