32 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

So apparently in 31st century, war machine of the "future" still has the same problem as our tanks. We can shoot down particularly well.

In a fight over a steeper angle, unlike the conventional wisdom to take the high ground, if you have direct LoS weapon, you are very boned.

(ps you guys have GOT to fix "target slighted," it's like free radar tracking for 3 seconds after losing LoS)

Well, you see, that shouldn't be. By the design of gyros, you don't suffer the same penalty as a 70 ton flatbed. Do you have trouble looking at your toe? In fact, if you look straight down, you can probably see your heel as well.

And this is where another aspect of the game where designers failed to make each mech unique beyond the obvious high mount locations, cause most maps you guys came up with, are quite 3 dimensional in nature.

Some mechs with balance problem and prefer horizontal fight.
Some mechs with high mounts prefer hill peak.
Some mechs are better at anti air (shoot up)
Some mechs are designed to have superior shoot down performance

Instantly, you've just made your mechs more variable and more unique. Think of the EBJ for example, there's a reason why a chicken-leg gyros are great, not because they look better, but they can balance looking down without tipping itself over. So why does it have the same limitation as a Hellbringer for example? They SHOULD not have the same y-axis based on design alone.

For example, humanoids are designed more for straight on combat with multiple weapon surfaces not suffering angular problem and can pinpoint. That's their strength to fight horizontal. And it makes sense too that you can instantly torso twist 180 degrees and make your profile 66% smaller.

So then there should be an advantage to chicken walkers are well. Because if we accept that there are no concept behind each mechs and each mech is just purely cosmetic, then honestly, there's no point buying these different mechs. They are the same core design with different firing geometry (and honestly, the reason why people even have mech tiers in terms of usefulness... because you failed to make them unique)

Remember I post this?

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

These are all suggestions that are designed to help you make a pitch to customers.

"Hey, check out our game, we offered these varieties. It's definitely worth it to spend money on different designs because they all excel at different capabilities and handle drastically different."

Stalkers should be the most lethal "perch" mech in the game. But instead, you have an oxide run underneath it, and good game, next que. This shouldn't be right.

------------------
Tangent:

Don't give universal meters in terms of capabilities. Wolfhound is called wolfhound because it can run, not because of its engine size... which is replicate-able by EVERY OTHER mech of the 35 ton class

Actually give your mechs quirk that live up to their lore? Why is Ebon Jaguar more known as the Cauldron Born? Because it can take punishment like crazy! Well, with 74 points of armor and a big @ss hit-box, I don't feel very much like any immortal Irish legend.

My point is, stop doing balance like ghost heat twinkling and/or quirk adjustment. If you can find a way to find a purpose for ALL your mechs, build enough environment so that they can all find their niche, life will find a way.

There shouldn't be any meta. There should be situation. Unfortunately, you guys somehow only see meta shuffling as the solution to fix the game, which frankly, confuse the crap out of me.

Also, 6 srm6 jenner iic Alpha Strike is fairly indicative of you guys screwing up the whole "heat" and "uniqueness" factor. There's a reason why a 5.5 in Iphone is actually BETTER in battery life than a 4.5 inch older Iphone. Something that's HALF THE SIZE of a mech with double tonnage should NOT be able to perform to the same Alpha Strike without suffering some sort of catastrophic failure.

Anyways, food for thought. (I wish video games developers can be up for vote every 2 years too. If you guys conduct an online poll, heck, make it name required, and ask if your user base is generally pleased with your performance, do you think you will get a flying color? Maybe that's an indication that you guys need to start thinking outside of your comfort zone. When it comes down to it, we just want a fun experience to escape reality for a few hours a day. Shouldn't have to constantly be your guinea pig of failed experiment.)

PS 2. I understand enemies not having doritos until their target info are confirmed. That makes sense to me. But why the hell does your OWN team not able to share that info? Also, it's complete bull flop of your reasoning of providing weight class info. You want weight class info on doritos? Opague dorito, semi-translucent dark dorito, semi-transluent light dorito, and finally, open colorless dorito.

There, I just made an entire info scheme much more clear than horizontal vs vertical line on a stupid square. Cause you know, when spinning and your map squares trying to reposition itself as diamonds, it's much more clear to try to distinguish between a vertical and horizontal lines that have no rational meanings to indicate why one should be what it is. (sarcasm)

Edited by razenWing, 28 September 2016 - 10:49 PM.

[627]

wait, is this about arm lock and free look?

Edited by 627, 28 September 2016 - 10:48 PM.

[razenWing]

627, on 28 September 2016 - 10:47 PM, said:

wait, is this about arm lock and free look?

No. It's about whether you can scroll down and see your toe.

[627]

Why would I want to see my mech toe?

[Jingseng]

Can you see the front bumper of your car? =P

[Tibbnak]

For you special needs people, the OP means that he wants to increase the torso yaw significantly so you aren't trying to aim through your battle minimap to hit stuff below you.

[627]

See, this is Battletech, not japanese gundams.

BattleMechs don't bow down.

Edited by 627, 29 September 2016 - 12:22 AM.

[jjm1]

Tibbnak, on 28 September 2016 - 11:12 PM, said:

For you special needs people, the OP means that he wants to increase the torso yaw significantly so you aren't trying to aim through your battle minimap to hit stuff below you.

ahh thanks, my special need is for TLDR

and yeah, vertical game play is pretty silly in this game since there are no gun-sights like you would expect in a tank.

[BLOOD WOLF]

627, on 29 September 2016 - 12:22 AM, said:

See, this is Battletech, not japanese gundams.

BattleMechs don't bow down.

you a light pilot?

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 29 September 2016 - 12:44 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Personally, I find it irritating that sometimes I have to aim through my cockpit screen to hit something lower than me, but it also gives me a sense of size sometimes.

So mixed feelings..

Also, mechs simply aren't built like the human body. Thinking of them as a walking tank is the right way to go. And don't even get me started on the visibility a tank gets..

I agree that some mechs should be better at it than others, and that it would further diversify them. But then this would add yet another reason for balance wee-wees to wee-wee over..

Currently, the game has bigger issues to solve than this..

[Iron Heel]

I've been hearing this particular peeve from players of various games over the past 15 - 20 years, and as usually is the case..

Vellron2005, on 29 September 2016 - 02:25 AM, said:

Currently, the game has bigger issues to solve than this..

Nope, no internets for you.

[Clownwarlord]

I have a suggestion, if your cursor/cross hairs goes below your hud map why not have a popup window similar to that of the advanced zoom. It pops up where the map is and you can see the cursor/cross hairs, thus allowing you to shoot the enemy below you. It does not have to zoom just turn the map to a window allowing you to see your cursor/cross hair.

[Peter2k]

627, on 29 September 2016 - 12:22 AM, said:

See, this is Battletech, not japanese gundams.

BattleMechs don't bow down.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't I seen "lore" artwork and read references about mechs climbing, crouching and such?

[MiniFish]

i remember MW4 have a special view that lets you look at your own feet, i forgot if you can shoot in that view though. and i also remember that you can crouch in MW4. pardon my excessive reference to it but i got to know BT via MW4.

personally i think they can address this problem by combining free look with unlocked arm lock view. just let us pan our cameras as far as possible with the arm trying to track it while the torso tries to track the arm. i sometimes feel stupid to have to hold free look to be able to aim at UAV. hell, some mechs even have a sky roof, but you can't utilize it unless you free look, which is a shame.

[razenWing]

MiniFish, on 30 September 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

i remember MW4 have a special view that lets you look at your own feet, i forgot if you can shoot in that view though. and i also remember that you can crouch in MW4. pardon my excessive reference to it but i got to know BT via MW4.

personally i think they can address this problem by combining free look with unlocked arm lock view. just let us pan our cameras as far as possible with the arm trying to track it while the torso tries to track the arm. i sometimes feel stupid to have to hold free look to be able to aim at UAV. hell, some mechs even have a sky roof, but you can't utilize it unless you free look, which is a shame.

A few of my unit made similar suggestion as well. "Why don't we just have a glass pit?"

Well, that's not exactly the same thing. The whole point of rotating that y-axis yaw to get your torso to look down (for example, just take a look at the artwork of the stalker on the right) is so that can point direct LoS weapons from both your arm and torso down a steep valley or mountain ridge, which gives "perch" mechs an advantage over humanoid design.

Like EBJ dos not have the same X-axis yaw as a Hellbringer, but where she makes it up SHOULD be by better y-axis yaw, thus giving them distinct mission parameters. (Position establisher vs direct confrontation)

As of the state right now, you can almost say Hellbringer is universally better when operating alone because of ECM and hitboxes. So instead of design advantages, the design of EBJ instead became handicap.

[MiniFish]

razenWing, on 30 September 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

A few of my unit made similar suggestion as well. "Why don't we just have a glass pit?"

Well, that's not exactly the same thing. The whole point of rotating that y-axis yaw to get your torso to look down (for example, just take a look at the artwork of the stalker on the right) is so that can point direct LoS weapons from both your arm and torso down a steep valley or mountain ridge, which gives "perch" mechs an advantage over humanoid design.

Like EBJ dos not have the same X-axis yaw as a Hellbringer, but where she makes it up SHOULD be by better y-axis yaw, thus giving them distinct mission parameters. (Position establisher vs direct confrontation)

As of the state right now, you can almost say Hellbringer is universally better when operating alone because of ECM and hitboxes. So instead of design advantages, the design of EBJ instead became handicap.

don't mean to be rude, but using the axes for aircraft would probably better explain this. x / pitch for vertical, y / yaw for horizontal, and z / roll for uh.. roll?

but yeah, i get what you mean. i'm not sure how much work it'll involve though, since some mechs like the mad dog, have what seems to be waist joint, these guys might be able to lean without looking weird, but others like the cataphract which is almost like a plank joined to a flat base might look silly with things clipping into each other if they leaned forwards. although i'll be honest, i hadn't really paid much attention to it.

if what i suspect is true, then they might have to remodel some parts, and maybe redo the animations (not sure how animators animate non-organic stuff so i could be way off on this), and if the if the reputation and impressions many other people give PGI is true, then these changes may never come true.

i'll agree though, it helps to give mechs more unique features.

p.s. and no, please don't take away my beloved lingering spotted tag, its a handy tool for harassers and fatbro satellites

[Appogee]

In a future where rear view mirrors are Lostech, anything is plausible.

[razenWing]

Appogee, on 30 September 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

In a future where rear view mirrors are Lostech, anything is plausible.

To be fair, if they give you a rear view mirror, would you be able to use it to great effect?

Honestly, this is where PGI screwed by the whole radar thing by messing with a proven feature.

Give a soft radar like before, where you have a radar that active electronic pings (active radar) or listen to mech em radiation (passive) Those are soft locks. ECM disrupts soft lock radar. Missile require LoS confirmation. Do it like that, ALL electronics became useful in some ways with increased complexity and strategy.

(also eliminate the rear view mirror issue, cause by definition, radar should be 360 degrees. unless the light carry ECM which makes them invisible on radar, of course.)

But eh... that's going off tangent.

[Requiemking]

627, on 29 September 2016 - 12:22 AM, said:

See, this is Battletech, not japanese gundams.

BattleMechs don't bow down.

INCORRECT. Morgan Kell's Archer (Now known as Tempest) was able to bow before what he thought was immediate death. So, if an Archer can bow down, why can't other mechs?

[blood4blood]

MW4 w/joystick could use the "hat" button on top to free look around, up & down, and sideways. You could definitely fire arm weapons while using the look sideways feature, could not fire backward (big disappointment from all MW titles since BT lore has several mechs with rear-facing weapons), and IIRC you could fire down as well, but it was harder (no crosshairs if I remember it right, but I rarely had to use it so I could be mistaken). You could also crouch, but some considered it cheating b/c using throttle with crouch or jump with crouch could make your mech appear to be somewhere it wasn't (animation issue).

I'd love to see basic jump (not JJ, actually jumping) and crouch mechanics in a MW title, along with the axis tilt OP is discussing. I don't expect it from MWO though, given all the convergence/geometry/hitbox issues we've already seen, I expect adding these features would just create more problems than they'd be worth.