27 replies to this topic

[Nerokar]

Hi all.

I'm new to MWO. I did the tutorial, read some nice guides and played my first ten games in trial mechs. Atm i tend to lights, because of their speed and hit and run gameplay and medium mechs because of their versatility (trial hunchback iic with 2x uacs and 3x med laser is a beast).

The game offers a lot of possibilities for tactical gameplay. Really great so long. The only thing i despair about are teams with lots of LRM boats on wide, flat maps like Polar Highlands.

What can i do?

Radar Derp needs 15000 GXP... i have ~1000. So this is not an option.

In most cases my mechs have no ECM and no, or to little AMS. If i stay near my Team i'm useless because the range of my weapons is to short.

So i'm trying to stay out of sight and poke reds as good as i can... But this i neary impossible because of swarms of LRMs after my first alpha. I get targeted instantly even if i change position. No Idea what i'm doing wrong...

The last thing i'm trying to do is to hunt down those mean red spotter, if they have any. The problem here is the fight. I catch him. I fight him... and get billions of LRMs raining on me. Hell... one time i rammed him and this rain of death killed both of us...

So what can i do better next time? Especially on Polar Highlands...

Thanks for hints and advices!

Edited by Nerokar, 28 September 2016 - 11:45 PM.

[Jingseng]

Just want to point out - Stay near your team =p

having short range and staying near your team doing the endless long range trading is not useless. Many of those builds are weak (or even entirely defenseless) at close range. Which is the range speedy and tiny light mechs excel at reaching and at fighting in. You are defending, even if you feel like you are not doing anything... provided that you actually ARE defending by keeping an eye out, etc.

You know what's actually being useless?

being dead because you got shot to hell by lrm flood.

I would also encourage not voting for polar high lands, finding the trenches to hide in, run through, and screaming at people to push/charge.

But also more info like what are you piloting, etc. would help.

Some other points:

You've already realized one weakness of LRMs - they don't care who they hit. It's possible to share that damage (anything hitting a foe isnt hitting you) through placement, even maneuvering... you run counter clockwise, so your opponent goes clockwise... and now he's getting a full flight of lrms in the back (on your behalf).

Another is the tunnel vision people have. Flank wide. Circle around. If you get discovered, at least you are creating an opening for your team: those are lrms that are not pointed in their direction. Just make sure to scream push now, etc. at them. Comments regarding questionable parentage can boost success rates.

Lastly, IS lrms have a minimum range (they have an orange propellant flare, as opposed to Clan which have a blue propellant flare). If you get within 180m, those lrms bounce harmlessly off you. Even clan lrms do reduced damage at such close range (but sometimes enough to hurt bad, if your armor is bare, etc.). So move fast, move from cover, and move at an angle (make them split their attention), and preferably move as a group (but not tightly clustered).

Edited by Jingseng, 29 September 2016 - 12:19 AM.

[Nerokar]

Thanks for your answer!

Ok. I'll try to defend more. Driving circles around those LRM fighter and watch for brawler.

And what i'm piloting... good question. Trial mechs... HBK-IIC with 2x c-uac/10 and backup c-erml and PNT-10K with dual PPC are the mechs i liked most.

And for team-tactics... i tried to communicate but nobody react... tier 5 is to blame i guess... or myself for being fresh and giving bad announcements...

[S 0 L E N Y A]

The easy route is buy a mech with ECM and stick to cover.

I recently started a new "alt account" and bought HBR prime immediately.

At low tiers most pilots do not know how to counter ECM and will generally rely on squad mates for locks.

Using cover combined with ECM means you will rarely be a priority target for other new pilots

[Leone]

So, as a light pilot I like to play like an ambush predator.

Step one: Circle the map, wide. At this stage you may run into other scouts. If so, the great light on light fight ensues. if your close enough to get hit with enemy missiles, you didn't circle wide enough, or the enemy came your way, pull back.

Step two, assuming you didn't perish in a light on light skirmish: Find the rear of the enemy line. Now that your past the enemies flanking elements and pickets, you may approach cautiously. Being without ECM means if you spot the enemy, they may spot you lest everyone's back is turned. Be wary, and should you see the enemy notice you, disengage and try again.

Step Three: Spot for the team. Now behind enemy lines, you may safely designate targets for your own side, letting the missiles rain until someone spots you. And seriously, someone should spot you. When out of sight of the enemy and getting targeted, most folk'll think uav first. But right after that, they'll look for the spotter.

Step four: Congratulations, if you've made it this far, you've surpassed many a light fight, or the enemy's been ignoring you and will pay for their mistake. Or maybe there's no missiles on your team to spot for? Anyways, I digress. Now, it's time to assassinate. Find a lone mech on the rear line, sneak up behind it, and engage. If you aim right between the legs, on the hips, not the back, you'll still hit rear CT, but they can't twist it away like they could a back shot. Or if the enemy is already engaged, you could go for legs. If under fire, and my rear armour isn't lighting up, even I've been surprised by a light behind me taking my legs off.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 29 September 2016 - 02:15 AM.

[Nerokar]

@Boogie138

Sounds like a plan. But buying a mech presupposes a bit of knowlage of gameplay. Atm i have played my first 10 games and sticked to trial mechs.

Lights and Meds seems nice to me. I like ppc and uac10 gameplay.
And unfortunately have no idea if:
1) (c)uac/ppc on lights or mediums are effective
2) What good gameplay style would be.
3) what good light/mediums with those weapons and ECM are manageable for new player in PUGs
4) 12.000.000 mc (all i have) enought for a good setup

It would be nice to know answers for this Questions befor i buy a mech and regret it after playing 3-4 games

Thanks

@Leone

This sounds cool. I will try this!

Edited by Nerokar, 29 September 2016 - 02:41 AM.

[Cold Darkness]

polar highlands is not a flat open map.
the only map you would have problems with evading lrms is arctic.

if you have problems with lrms on polar, this happens because you chose to have problems when you chose where to fight. and no, every moron running straight to the center does not help vs lrms heavy teams.

[VonBruinwald]

I'm going to parrot Jingseng, play defence and don't push-out/flank alone unless you have a plan. Especially early game when the lurms are heaviest. If you're on defence try pairing up with an ally carrying ECM, if you're within 90m of an allied ECM it protects you from being targeted.

Lurmers and Snipers are often weak at close range. Defend yours or attack theirs if you can get in close. Move as a unit and get in an ECM bubble where possible.


As for Radar-Derp, most events have a 1000GXP reward, make sure you grind those out and don't be tempted to use it on something else early.


Mech-wise, the Griffin-2N might be a good start for you, it can be built to brawl or snipe, comes with ECM an ERPPC and double-sinks stock. Modding you might want to go XL (speed vs. vulnerability) or switch out for a 2nd PPC if you can handle the heat. Take a look. You will miss out on Dakka builds though. Or you could just become a SCat lover if you want to go the way of the meta-clans.

If you want to go the way of the AC10... Urbie

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Lights do not take to class 10 ACs or PPCs well.

Maybe you can stuff one of em into a light, but it isnt optimal.

Mediums and beyond can fill that roll.

Give the trial Shadowcat a go. It has large pulses, which are great for longer range work. Should you buy the mech you could easily swap the large pulse lasers for PPCs instead.

For innersphere mechs the Cicada can fill a similar role.

[Nerokar]

The trial Scat sounds like a nice mech. Good range, not to slow. I'll try that one.

Two more questions:
1) When do trial mechs change?
2) What are those events mentioned by VonBruinwald and how i find them?

[Hunka Junk]

1) I don't think there is a set schedule. They just do a few times a year. Maybe more often but I'm not sure.

2) There's an event on right now:
https://mwomercs.com...s?t=201609mechs

It's important to go check the details of every event because even though it looks like it's for Night Gyrs and heavies, each event almost always has a set of personal challenges that you can do in any mech. The one above has a 1000GXP prize if you grind 5k normal xp. The event is only on for one more day, but that particular prize should be doable in a couple of hours.

And my advice is a hybrid of the other advice people have given: Every match play body guard for a mech carrying an ECM. The only case where that might not work is if the only ecm mechs are lights going out to scout. If that's the case, then look for people with AMS and guard them. They should be easy to identify if there are lrms cuz their little anti-lrm whirlygig will be spouting flak or whatever it is they fire.

ANd then be patient, a brawler that can stay in one piece during an extended long range shootout will shine once that part is over and the battlefield is chock full of half-chewed mechs. BUT, even then, go out and hunt the half-chewed with your team. DOn't run off by yourself or you'll be half-chewed before you know it.

[VonBruinwald]

Hunka Junk, on 29 September 2016 - 05:18 AM, said:

2) There's an event on right now:
https://mwomercs.com...s?t=201609mechs

That one is already over... they happen 2~3 times a month though so you can probably expect the next one in a couple of weeks just before the Huntsman is released (I'm going to dub it Medium Mech Madness Pt.2 - Streaking Crows), then one again the following week (Hunting Huntsman).

[Metus regem]

Nerokar, on 28 September 2016 - 11:43 PM, said:

Hi all.

I'm new to MWO. I did the tutorial, read some nice guides and played my first ten games in trial mechs. Atm i tend to lights, because of their speed and hit and run gameplay and medium mechs because of their versatility (trial hunchback iic with 2x uacs and 3x med laser is a beast).

The game offers a lot of possibilities for tactical gameplay. Really great so long. The only thing i despair about are teams with lots of LRM boats on wide, flat maps like Polar Highlands.

What can i do?

Radar Derp needs 15000 GXP... i have ~1000. So this is not an option.

In most cases my mechs have no ECM and no, or to little AMS. If i stay near my Team i'm useless because the range of my weapons is to short.

So i'm trying to stay out of sight and poke reds as good as i can... But this i neary impossible because of swarms of LRMs after my first alpha. I get targeted instantly even if i change position. No Idea what i'm doing wrong...

The last thing i'm trying to do is to hunt down those mean red spotter, if they have any. The problem here is the fight. I catch him. I fight him... and get billions of LRMs raining on me. Hell... one time i rammed him and this rain of death killed both of us...

So what can i do better next time? Especially on Polar Highlands...

Thanks for hints and advices!

Hi and welcome to MWO, with that out of the way, there are a few ways to deal with L.R.M's, that do not require the Radar Deprivation module.

1) Know the type of LRM's being used against you, IS LRM's (Yellow exhaust, clustered flight group) or Clan LRM's (blue exhaust, streaming flight group)

1a) IS LRM's cannot do any damage with in 180m of the target, meaning being at 179m of a LRM boat means he will be relying on limited back up weapons, as IS launchers are very heavy.

1b) Clan LRMS (cLRM) do ramping up damage below 120m, but will have a hard time hitting a fast mech at that range.

2) LRM's are slow weapons, they take a long time to reach their target at maximum range, plenty of time to change position reducing the chance of them hitting you.

3) LRM's are the only weapon in the game the rely on the target not knowing what they are doing or not paying attention, this is due to the fact that as you get better at piloting, you will be able to use cover (both hard cover, found on every map. And ablative cover, your team mates)

4) IS LRM's have a very large damage radius, meaning that they will put damage all over your mech, cLRM's have a slightly reduced damage radius.


Now we move onto how to counter LRM's:

1) Cover, this can be map contrsucts, such as rocks, trees or buildings or ablative cover, such as your team mates. As you play more, you will learn where the hard cover is located, and you will learn the flight time of LRM's is very long, meaning you should have time to find some cover to reduce the damage you take from them... even on Polar. Polar is different from most maps, as you have trenches to run in, these trenchs will make it harder to be hit by LRM's provided you stick to them.

2) AMS, This is active damage reduction against missile weapon systems, it doesn't make you immune to them, unless used in large numbers. 2-3 AMS should be enough to render IS-LRM/5's and cLRM/10's useless. I've been in a group play before were we all took AMS and we shut down LRM boats (Most of the other team apparently.)

3) Positioning and piloting, most LRM boats do not want you to be in their face, this is largely due to their primary weapon system being useless to very ineffective below 200m. Between launcher weight and ammunition LRM boats often do not have very strong back up weapon systems.

4) ECM, it's not a perfect counter to LRM's but it is a very strong counter to them.

[Rogue Jedi]

Recently trial Mechs seem to only change when they release a new batch (as they did in last week's patch) periodicaly a thread is put up for the next batch of Champion Mechs, they name the chassis and we design the Mechs, then the designs are put up for vote and the winners are put in game, they do several at a time and the process takes 2-4 months from initial announcement to Mechs in game.

The problem with this system is most of the chosen builds tend to be "Meta" builds, meaning there is not usually much variety for new players to try different play styles on the various Mechs

[Koniving]

Welcome to MWO.

Nerokar, on 28 September 2016 - 11:43 PM, said:

Hi all.

I'm new to MWO. I did the tutorial, read some nice guides and played my first ten games in trial mechs. Atm i tend to lights, because of their speed and hit and run gameplay and medium mechs because of their versatility (trial hunchback iic with 2x uacs and 3x med laser is a beast).

The game offers a lot of possibilities for tactical gameplay. Really great so long. The only thing i despair about are teams with lots of LRM boats on wide, flat maps like Polar Highlands.

What can i do?

Radar Derp needs 15000 GXP... i have ~1000. So this is not an option.

In most cases my mechs have no ECM and no, or to little AMS. If i stay near my Team i'm useless because the range of my weapons is to short.

So i'm trying to stay out of sight and poke reds as good as i can... But this i neary impossible because of swarms of LRMs after my first alpha. I get targeted instantly even if i change position. No Idea what i'm doing wrong...

The last thing i'm trying to do is to hunt down those mean red spotter, if they have any. The problem here is the fight. I catch him. I fight him... and get billions of LRMs raining on me. Hell... one time i rammed him and this rain of death killed both of us...

So what can i do better next time? Especially on Polar Highlands...

Thanks for hints and advices!

Some thoughts; having at least one long range weapon is always a bit of help.
Be aware that Polar Highlands is anything but flat. Lots of crevices and such to travel through and the way to survive is to not be seen until you are upon your enemy. Then blast them to death.

Enemies can only detect, target or lob LRMs at you if "SOMEONE" can see you. Make sure they can't.
And if someone can, make them disappear quickly.

Oh, and go for legs.
Trust me. If they can't run, killing them is very quick.

[Koniving]

Nerokar, on 29 September 2016 - 02:36 AM, said:

Sounds like a plan. But buying a mech presupposes a bit of knowlage of gameplay. Atm i have played my first 10 games and sticked to trial mechs.

Lights and Meds seems nice to me. I like ppc and uac10 gameplay.
And unfortunately have no idea if:
1) (c)uac/ppc on lights or mediums are effective
2) What good gameplay style would be.
3) what good light/mediums with those weapons and ECM are manageable for new player in PUGs
4) 12.000.000 mc (all i have) enought for a good setup

It would be nice to know answers for this Questions befor i buy a mech and regret it after playing 3-4 games
\

Mkay, got more time to sit and read now.

As an owner of 201 mechs I can provide a bit of insight.
(This is a current count so this really does not count those I've sold in the past or the effort to rebuy some of those mechs which I'll tell you right now you'll almost always regret selling a mech; unless it's an Omnimech and you're not a faction mode player... you'll never regret tossing the 'excess' Omnimechs as 'One and Done' is all you need after finishing the skill tree).

First: Yes, PPC and AC/10 / UAC/10 / LB-10x are viable on Lights but are the ballistics (cannons) are more viable on Mediums than Lights. Meanwhile PPCs are more viable on specific Battlemechs or on specific Omnimech Omnipods due to a thing called "Quirks."

Ballistic weapons are heavy, like REALLY heavy. For example the Inner Sphere AC/2 weighs more than three of these trucks or 6 tons (between the barrel, firing mechanism, autoloader, internal armoring, cooling jacket and so on.)


So lighter mechs do tend to require "eXtra Light" engines to be able to carry and use them effectively. These engines are not cheap.

PPCs on the other hand pack a much bigger punch, requires lots more heatsinks but no ammo limit, and only weighs three and a half trucks (7 tons).

I can tell you that ACs and PPCs can be very effective so long as you can hit your target. The biggest issue is often leading the target just right.


Keep in mind this mech can only hold twenty tons and is very poorly armored.



Keep in mind PPC stats keep changing and different mechs will have better stats for PPCs than others,.
Skip to 4:13 for the vid below for the good fighting, the first 4 minutes is me yacking.

About 5:50 is the actual moment for the Locust with the AC/5, but up until then is some Hunchback play and a short while messing around in mechlab.


HBK with the LB-10x.


Various ACs showcased (from a heavy mech).

Plethora of PPCs demonstrated by a lighter Assault mech aka "Awesome"


Side note: Standard PPCs -- for reasons that PGI honestly doesn't understand -- have a minimum Accuracy range of 90 meters. PGI has made this a minimum damage range aka... you do no damage at 90 meters or less.
ER PPCs however do not have this minimum accuracy range for reasons PGI also does not understand, and as such has no minimum damage range.

(The reason for it is PPCs have a field inhibitor which delays the weapon's actual reaction, making it easier and safer to focus. Basically it's supposed to have a charge up delay or it could blow up in your face. PGI shrugged their shoulders and said "Minimum range? Okay no damage at this range." ER PPCs have a lot of excess heat due to finding another solution to this problem.)

Edited by Koniving, 29 September 2016 - 01:55 PM.

[InspectorG]

Nerokar, on 29 September 2016 - 12:41 AM, said:

Thanks for your answer!

Ok. I'll try to defend more. Driving circles around those LRM fighter and watch for brawler.

And what i'm piloting... good question. Trial mechs... HBK-IIC with 2x c-uac/10 and backup c-erml and PNT-10K with dual PPC are the mechs i liked most.

And for team-tactics... i tried to communicate but nobody react... tier 5 is to blame i guess... or myself for being fresh and giving bad announcements...

Get a Locust E or 3M or S. Save GXP from events for a Radar Dep, you only need one.

You take the Locust and hunt LRM boats. You sneak behind them. You rearcore a ST because they have XL engines. If they are really off by themselves, you leg them hoping for a ammo explosion.

Get good at Locust piloting, and all your mech piloting gets better.

[justcallme A S H]

Polar has plenty of places to hide in.

You just need to learn the maps a bit better and work out where the better trenches are and how to use them either for offence or defence.

The only drama you'll have is if you get NARC'd, you're basically F'ked them unless someone on your team has ECM and moves to you to cancel out the NARC. In most matches, the ECM mech has absolutely no idea you can stop NARC with ECM... So you're still kinda stuffed so more often than not you'll have to move to them.

If they are 500m away, again you're dead haha. Joy of LRMs and NARC. What I do if I realise there is a heavy LRM team is stick as close to the ECM mech as I can, stay in the trenches until it's time to strike etc. Rarely get killed off to LRMs, but then at T1 you don't see many of them either

[Void Angel]

Nerokar, on 28 September 2016 - 11:43 PM, said:

Hi all.

I'm new to MWO. I did the tutorial, read some nice guides and played my first ten games in trial mechs. Atm i tend to lights, because of their speed and hit and run gameplay and medium mechs because of their versatility (trial hunchback iic with 2x uacs and 3x med laser is a beast).

The last thing i'm trying to do is to hunt down those mean red spotter, if they have any. The problem here is the fight. I catch him. I fight him... and get billions of LRMs raining on me. Hell... one time i rammed him and this rain of death killed both of us...

So what can i do better next time? Especially on Polar Highlands...

Did someone mention Polar Highlands?! Yes, yes they did...

Polar Highlands will be... difficult for new players. The reason is that it looks flat - and that the game inadvertently trains people toward poke-and-hide long-range tactics. Has to do with operant conditioning and the effectiveness of immediate versus delayed feedback, but that's not important now. What's important is that this sort of static attrition warfare is exactly the kind of gameplay that Polar Highlands is designed to discourage...

No matter where you are in Polar Highlands, there is a covered and concealed route to get where you want to go. In most areas, this means that your enemies are caught on the back of a long slope with nowhere to run, because those long, rolling hills don't provide a lot of convenient rocks and drop-offs (cough*canyonnetwork*cough) for people to run and hide with. So, the team that keeps on moving (and keeps scouting) will tend to win out. The difficulty is that it can be hard to find a team that understands this, particularly in beginning play - and with the map voting system, you're virtually guaranteed to have a lot of snipers and LRM jockeys on one or both teams. Just do the best you can and politely suggest that the map requires you to keep moving together in order to outmaneuver the enemy.

As for your 'mech choices, I cut my teeth on the Inner Sphere Hunchbacks, Back in the Day before the Clans. I love my Mediums, although the Shadowhawk and Stormcrow have eclipsed the Hunchback as my favorites. Your best bet is to pick a Heavy or Assault and focus on fighting what they fight. If you poke around the same corner behind your Big, you can often hit the enemy before their guns recycle for another shot at you, effectively adding your firepower to the Big while providing anti-light security - just make sure you don't block your Big's movement. I call this tactic, "The Hunchbuddy."

For Lights... Get one with ECM. You're not going to be able learn to play your Lights as they should be played with LRMs darkening the sky every time someone glances at you. Since you're enjoying Clantech, pick up the Arctic Cheetah - it's the best combat Light in the game right now, anyway. Swap the ECM omnipod (or just buy a new one) as you level the chassis up, and you'll be able to do the scouting/spotting part of being a Light without being smashed by anyone with a missile lock, and unless your enemy has a counter (Beagle Active Probes, Narc missile beacons, or ECM of their own set to jam you,) you'll be able to smack around intercepting enemy Lights with one of the most powerful 35-ton chassis in the game. =)

Edited by Void Angel, 29 September 2016 - 08:31 PM.

[Ithilid]

And my 2 cents:

I agree with the above post but I have to add when you dodge for cover and it's just enough to break locks change directions and keep going a bit. It helps avoid the lrm tracking.

Remember you are just starting out and none of the trial mechs are optimized to you and your play style.

Keep communicating... it's actually worth it to most of us